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Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

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kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:14 pm Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Hi  

   

I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder. The theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the rudder is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic’s design as documented on Tim Olson’s website (see http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html).   

   

The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access panel is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a flange that was riveted to the rudder skin.  What I don’t have are the dimensions of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I can guess but would prefer something a bit more accurate if available. Failing that, is the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the T3-12A servo that came with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the access panel size.  

   

Inquiring minds need to know ...  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab  

   

       [quote][b]

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Ed Hayden just completed a nearly identical modification on his

rudder using Vic's design concept.  He used the following

standard parts:

VA-195C

VA-195D



These I believe are the standard cover plate and doubler that

go in place of the stall warning hole.  I don't think it would

really matter what dimensions you use as long as your servo

fits.  I don't know for sure if there's a difference in

footprint between servos, but I doubt it....someone else would

have to fill you in on that.  If you are doing the mod though,

I'd buy the servo and have it handy for doing the mod.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Les Kearney wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi

 

  

 

 I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder. 

 The theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the 

 rudder is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic’s 

 design as documented on Tim Olson’s website (see 

 http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html).

 

  

 

 The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access 

 panel is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a 

 flange that was riveted to the rudder skin.  What I don’t have are the 

 dimensions of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I 

 can guess but would prefer something a bit more accurate if available. 

 Failing that, is the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the 

 T3-12A servo that came with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the 

 access panel size.

 

  

 

 Inquiring minds need to know ...

 

  

 

 Les Kearney

 

 RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab

 

  

 

 *

 

 

 *

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Hi Tim



Many thanks for the info. I will order the parts directly. Would you happen

to know where Vic got the cover for the servo arm I can't tell if it was

riveted on or if it was plastic (glued?). 



Cheers



Les

--

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

That part I don't know.  It looks like a regular rudder cable

exit fairing that you can get from Aircraft spruce or Avery Tools.

I'm sure you could proseal it on if you wanted, or rivet it, either

way.  I've had good luck internally using E6000, but I don't know

if I'd use that outside....probably proseal.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Les Kearney wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Hi Tim

 

 Many thanks for the info. I will order the parts directly. Would you happen

 to know where Vic got the cover for the servo arm I can't tell if it was

 riveted on or if it was plastic (glued?). 

 

 Cheers

 

 Les

 

 

 --

capsteve

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:53 pm Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think it’s a great idea just need to make sure its needed.     

   

Thinking about rudders…. I’m seriously considering mounting the nav/gs antenna in the rudder. I can’t find a certified example with an external antenna in a control surface,  I’m not sure if that’s on purpose.  I’m thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So there shouldn’t be a problem…..  

Steve  

40205  

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

Subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse  

   

Hi  

   

I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder. The theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the rudder is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic’s design as documented on Tim Olson’s website (see http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html).   

   

The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access panel is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a flange that was riveted to the rudder skin.  What I don’t have are the dimensions of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I can guess but would prefer something a bit more accurate if available. Failing that, is the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the T3-12A servo that came with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the access panel size.  

   

Inquiring minds need to know ...  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab  

    	  Quote: 	
		   	


     

  

--

 11/10/2006

  

  

--

 No virus found in this outgoing message.

 11/10/2006

     [quote][b]

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 4:57 am Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

I have to use a little right rudder to keep the ball centered.  Without 

right rudder its about a half ball out to the right.  Rudder trim is on my 

list of things to do.



Mark (N410MR Flying)





 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 01:52:43 -0500



Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a

wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think it’s a

great idea just need to make sure its needed.



Thinking about rudders…. I’m seriously considering mounting the nav/gs

antenna in the rudder. I can’t find a certified example with an external

antenna in a control surface,  I’m not sure if that’s on purpose.  I’m

thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So

there shouldn’t be a problem…..



Steve



40205



Subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse



Hi



I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder. 

The

theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the rudder

is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic’s design as

documented on Tim Olson’s website (see HYPERLINK

"http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html"http://myrv10.com/tips/mo

ds/RudderTrim/index.html).



The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access 

panel

is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a flange

that was riveted to the rudder skin.  What I don’t have are the dimensions

of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I can guess but

would prefer something a bit more accurate if available. Failing that, is

the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the T3-12A servo that came

with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the access panel size.



Inquiring minds need to know ...



Les Kearney



RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab

--

11/10/2006



--

No virus found in this outgoing message.

11/10/2006




	


_________________________________________________________________

Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free 

trip!

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

I don't know of any RV-10's flying that don't either have a rudder

tab wedge in place, or electric rudder trim. (I'm sure there's one

somewhere though, but none that I know of....but they would probably

not be flying perfectly straight)  I myself have a wedge taped on.

It looks fine, and works ok in cruise at lower power settings.

The problem is, even adding 5-10kts is significant enough to make

the wedge too much trim, and flying at lower speeds makes it too

little.



I didn't have any believe in rudder trim when I started.  My

previous plane didn't have it, and I didn't care.  But as both my

aircraft quality, and flying quality has improved with the RV-10,

I now see it as a much more necessary item if you're going for a

truly nice flying airplane.  I wish I would have done it earlier,

because it's harder to do after you've painted.



As far as your antenna in the rudder, I would most certainly

avoid that, from a balance standpoint, a wiring standpoint, and

more.  Even when doing the rudder trim, the builders who've

checked with Van's had them recommend that the servo be mounted

forward enough to balance the trim control on the aft side.  I

really think putting an antenna there is a bad idea...especially

given the abundance of GOOD locations for the antenna.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying



Steven DiNieri wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a 

 wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think 

 it’s a great idea just need to make sure its needed.  

 

  

 

 Thinking about rudders…. I’m seriously considering mounting the nav/gs 

 antenna in the rudder. I can’t find a certified example with an external 

 antenna in a control surface,  I’m not sure if that’s on purpose.  I’m 

 thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So 

 there shouldn’t be a problem…..

 

 Steve

 

 40205

 

  

 

 *Subject:* Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

 


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder. 

 The theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the 

 rudder is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic’s 

 design as documented on Tim Olson’s website (see 

 http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html).

 

  

 

 The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access 

 panel is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a 

 flange that was riveted to the rudder skin.  What I don’t have are the 

 dimensions of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I 

 can guess but would prefer something a bit more accurate if available. 

 Failing that, is the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the 

 T3-12A servo that came with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the 

 access panel size.

 

  

 Les Kearney

 

 RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 8:03 am Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

I would have to agree with Tim that putting antennas in the rudder might be a mistake.  Not only with balance issues but also because of the wire wearing as the rudder moves.  While it may remain fairly stationary in flight, it certainly moves a LOT while on the ground taxiing.  I don’t even like having the wires to the tail lights back there, but that is hard to avoid.  

   

As far as the need to rudder trim, all three -10’s I have spent time in have electric trim and are regularly “stepping on the ball”, depending on how they are flying and how they are loaded.  I also don’t think I have seen one without at least the wedge.  I don’t know how much speed is lost when out of trim, but I imagine it is measureable enough to justify.  If putting on just a wedge, I would recommend putting it on to trim for cruise, whether you like economy or speed.  You definitely need some rudder in climb.  With the options available (Aerotrim runs as little as $175 without the indicator), I think it is definitely a good mod to include.  

   

I have mentioned Aerotrim a number of times, so I will give a little more detail (I have no financial connection whatsoever).  This guy is usually at the big shows with a little half-booth (and very not-impressive) and an airplane-through-the-head hat on.  He is often sleeping, or at least playing with his dentures.  He does, on the other hand, have a trim system that is STC’ed or PMA’ed for quite a few different certified airplanes.  The servo supposedly has all metal gears, although I have not disassembled one to find out.  The housing that the servo is in is not very professional, and the wires coming out of the servo or included with the system are very small (so are the Ray Allen’s), but it works very well.  There are two wires, so no real option for an indicator unless you use his, which I think comes centered just like the servo, and when you give power to run the servo, you are also sending the same power to the indicator that moves it.  I haven’t even considered using the indicator on the 10 trims that I have bought from him.  The servo runs very slowly, which is fairly good for aileron or rudder trim, since those mostly need very minor adjustments during flight.  The servo comes with a hinge that you rivet onto the trailing edge.  It has a spring that keeps it from fluttering/shaking/vibrating.  It comes from the factory/garage mechanically centered, so you want to attach the hinge to the arm coming out of the servo with it centered before you run the servo.  It also comes with pop rivets to attach the servo to the skin of the aileron or rudder (it is VERY lightweight) after you cut the hole for it.  On 4 of our installations we decided to use nutplates on the skin and #6 countersunk screws, which seems to be a good fit.  The first 2 installations we made were done after the plane was flying and without removing either the aileron or rudder, so painting it ahead of time should make it a very easy installation for most people.  For those considering it, I would recommend getting it without the toggle switch and without the bundle of wire that comes with it and without the indicator (you can easily see the state of the aileron trim in flight, and the ball is the indicator on the panel for the rudder trim).  

   

Well, that’s it for now.  

     

Jesse Saint  

I-TEC, Inc.  

jesse(at)itecusa.org (jesse(at)itecusa.org)  

www.itecusa.org  

W: 352-465-4545  

C: 352-427-0285  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri

 Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 1:53 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse  

  

   

Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think it’s a great idea just need to make sure its needed.     

   

Thinking about rudders…. I’m seriously considering mounting the nav/gs antenna in the rudder. I can’t find a certified example with an external antenna in a control surface,  I’m not sure if that’s on purpose.  I’m thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So there shouldn’t be a problem…..  

Steve  

40205  

   

   

   

   

   

   

   

Subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse  

   

Hi  

   

I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder. The theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the rudder is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic’s design as documented on Tim Olson’s website (see http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html).   

   

The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access panel is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a flange that was riveted to the rudder skin.  What I don’t have are the dimensions of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I can guess but would prefer something a bit more accurate if available. Failing that, is the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the T3-12A servo that came with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the access panel size.  

   

Inquiring minds need to know ...  

   

Les Kearney  

RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab  

    	  Quote: 	
		   	
  

   

--

 11/10/2006  

   

--

 No virus found in this outgoing message.

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     --  Date: 11/10/2006 

  

--

 No virus found in this outgoing message.

 11/10/2006

     [quote][b]

capsteve

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:02 am Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Thanks for all the input. It seems fairly unanimous that some form

of rudder trim is preferred. Technically there's going to be two ways to

make it happen. Bias spring/servo type on the pedals under dash somewhere or

servo/tab in the rudder. I'll probably spend most of today scratching my

head trying to find an elegant (read: simple) way to keep it under dash.

Choice 2 would be to cut a tab into the trailing edge of the rudder. I'm not

quite happy about hanging a hinge off the trailing edge. A couple of

thoughts on the servo.....i do have an extra mac servo, but I might compare

the torque to a large scale servo from the rc world. The servo would be

lighter and the pwm operation would allow slide type control. A indicator

wouldn't be necessary as the slide would reflect tab position - left on the

slide is left trim, center slide is neutral trim.........

I'll report on how badly I've mangled the rudder later......

Steve

40205

 	  Quote: 	

 I don't know of any RV-10's flying that don't either have a rudder

 tab wedge in place, or electric rudder trim. (I'm sure there's one

 somewhere though, but none that I know of....but they would probably

 not be flying perfectly straight)  I myself have a wedge taped on.

 It looks fine, and works ok in cruise at lower power settings.

 The problem is, even adding 5-10kts is significant enough to make

 the wedge too much trim, and flying at lower speeds makes it too

 little.

 I didn't have any believe in rudder trim when I started.  My

 previous plane didn't have it, and I didn't care.  But as both my

 aircraft quality, and flying quality has improved with the RV-10,

 I now see it as a much more necessary item if you're going for a

 truly nice flying airplane.  I wish I would have done it earlier,

 because it's harder to do after you've painted.

 As far as your antenna in the rudder, I would most certainly

 avoid that, from a balance standpoint, a wiring standpoint, and

 more.  Even when doing the rudder trim, the builders who've

 checked with Van's had them recommend that the servo be mounted

 forward enough to balance the trim control on the aft side.  I

 really think putting an antenna there is a bad idea...especially

 given the abundance of GOOD locations for the antenna.

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 Steven DiNieri wrote:

 > Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a

 > wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think

 > it’s a great idea just need to make sure its needed.

 >

 >

 >

 > Thinking about rudders…. I’m seriously considering mounting the nav/gs

 > antenna in the rudder. I can’t find a certified example with an external

 > antenna in a control surface,  I’m not sure if that’s on purpose.  I’m

 > thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So

 > there shouldn’t be a problem…..

 >

 > Steve

 >

 > 40205

 >

 >

 >

 > *Subject:* Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

 >

 > I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder.

 > The theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the

 > rudder is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic’s

 > design as documented on Tim Olson’s website (see

 > http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html).

 >

 >

 >

 > The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access

 > panel is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a

 > flange that was riveted to the rudder skin.  What I don’t have are the

 > dimensions of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I

 > can guess but would prefer something a bit more accurate if available.

 > Failing that, is the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the

 > T3-12A servo that came with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the

 > access panel size.

 >

 >

 > Les Kearney

 >

 > RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab

 >

 >

 --

-- 

No virus found in this outgoing message.

capsteve

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:31 am Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Well, deep down I knew it was a bad idea. Thinking about it, if the

antenna elements vibrated during flight (and I'm sure they do) they could

contribute to flutter. So, I've decided to install the nav/gs antenna in the

vertical stabilizer around the top hinge. I've yet to install the upper

hinge doubler in the service bulletin, so when I'm in there I’ll add a

bracket. None of the other placements make as much sense to me. I think

keeping it as far from the fuse as possible can't hurt, plus I have a few

rugrats running around the hangar and keeping the eye poking devices to a

minimum is important........



Steve

40205



 	  Quote: 	
		   I would have to agree with Tim that putting antennas in the rudder might

be a mistake.  Not only with balance issues but also because of the wire

wearing as the rudder moves.  While it may remain fairly stationary in

flight, it certainly moves a LOT while on the ground taxiing.  I don’t even

like having the wires to the tail lights back there, but that is hard to

avoid


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   

 As far as your antenna in the rudder, I would most certainly

 avoid that, from a balance standpoint, a wiring standpoint, and

 more.  Even when doing the rudder trim, the builders who've

 checked with Van's had them recommend that the servo be mounted

 forward enough to balance the trim control on the aft side.  I

 really think putting an antenna there is a bad idea...especially

 given the abundance of GOOD locations for the antenna.

 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

 

 

 

 Steven DiNieri wrote:

 > Just how necessary is this mod?? Has anyone flying their 10 had to put a

 > wedge on the rudder to correct for an out of trim condition? I think

 > it’s a great idea just need to make sure its needed.

 >

 >

 >

 > Thinking about rudders…. I’m seriously considering mounting the nav/gs

 > antenna in the rudder. I can’t find a certified example with an external

 > antenna in a control surface,  I’m not sure if that’s on purpose.  I’m

 > thinking that the rudder is fairly stationary in cruise and approach. So

 > there shouldn’t be a problem…..

 >

 > Steve

 >

 > 40205

 >

 >

 >

 > *Subject:* Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

 >

 

 > I have decided to add electric rudder trim before I complete the rudder.

 > The theory being that it will be infinitely easier to do this before the

 > rudder is completed. That being said, I want to shamelessly copy Vic’s

 > design as documented on Tim Olson’s website (see

 > http://myrv10.com/tips/mods/RudderTrim/index.html).

 >

 >

 >

 > The pictures are quire revealing (pun intended)! I see that the access

 > panel is has a Ray Allen T2-7A servo and that the access panel sits on a

 > flange that was riveted to the rudder skin.  What I don’t have are the

 > dimensions of the access panel as well as its location on the rudder. I

 > can guess but would prefer something a bit more accurate if available.

 > Failing that, is the T2-7a servo dimensionally the same size as the

 > T3-12A servo that came with the tail kit? If so, I can estimate the

 > access panel size.

 >

 >

 > Les Kearney

 >

 > RV10 # 40643 - Vertical Stab

 >

 >

 

 

 

 

 

 --

 


	


-- 

No virus found in this outgoing message.

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Actually, there are a couple of things you can do without trim servo's 

or tabs.  I don't know if Van's design has rudder return springs, but if 

not ..... I'll add them when the time comes.  A tension spring from the 

rudder pedal (at the cable attach point) to the firewall is all you 

need.  With the springs in place, go fly.  If the aircraft changes 

heading with the wings level, then you have one of two conditions:  1) 

the spoiler is deployed on one side only.  2) the vertical fin/rudder 

aren't in rig.  Since I haven't seen a spoiler, we can forget #1.



Depending on which way the aircraft turns, you can twist/untwist the 

rudder cables which will effectively shorten or lengthen the cables. 

 Loosen on the side inside the turn, and tighten on the outside of the 

turn.  It'll take some time, but unless the vertical fin is way out, you 

can compensate.  One way you can tell if the fin is the culprit (engine 

thrust line could also be the culprit) is that the rate of turn will be 

more pronounced at higher speeds.



Combinations of engine thrust and cable experimentation may be necessary.

Linn

Steven DiNieri wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



	Thanks for all the input. It seems fairly unanimous that some form

of rudder trim is preferred. Technically there's going to be two ways to

make it happen. Bias spring/servo type on the pedals under dash somewhere or

servo/tab in the rudder. I'll probably spend most of today scratching my

head trying to find an elegant (read: simple) way to keep it under dash.

Choice 2 would be to cut a tab into the trailing edge of the rudder. I'm not

quite happy about hanging a hinge off the trailing edge. A couple of

thoughts on the servo.....i do have an extra mac servo, but I might compare

the torque to a large scale servo from the rc world. The servo would be

lighter and the pwm operation would allow slide type control. A indicator

wouldn't be necessary as the slide would reflect tab position - left on the

slide is left trim, center slide is neutral trim.........

I'll report on how badly I've mangled the rudder later......



	

Steve

40205

coop85(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 2:38 pm Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Linn,

   These seem like good ideas for many airplanes, but there are a few snags

relating to the RV-10.  



First, the rudder cables are not adjustable, there are no turnbuckles like

you find in many other airplanes.  



I don't think there would be enough room to put tension springs and a

turnbuckle on the firewall side.  Several folks have added tension springs,

but it's only to keep tension on the rudder pedals so they don't flop

backward, I haven't bothered as it hasn't been an issue.



Adjusting the thrust line or stab alignment would REALLY complicate the

cowling or fairing installation and there are no design features to allow

the adjustment.  Anything's possible, but in the case of the -10 this would

be a lot of work for little gain.  I honestly was surprised there isn't any

offset in the vertical stab like other airplanes I've built to reduce the

trim requirement.



Based on the above, the most simple route is electric rudder trim.  I don't

have it yet, I just taped a plate on the rudder and kept bending it until I

didn't have to hold rudder pressure in cruise.  Honestly, it takes very

little rudder input in other phases of flight and I'm waffling on how bad I

want to install the electric trim - would be kind of cool to have though.



Just my .02 FWIW,

Marcus



Do not archive




Actually, there are a couple of things you can do without trim servo's 

or tabs.  I don't know if Van's design has rudder return springs, but if 

not ..... I'll add them when the time comes.  A tension spring from the 

rudder pedal (at the cable attach point) to the firewall is all you 

need.  With the springs in place, go fly.  If the aircraft changes 

heading with the wings level, then you have one of two conditions:  1) 

the spoiler is deployed on one side only.  2) the vertical fin/rudder 

aren't in rig.  Since I haven't seen a spoiler, we can forget #1.



Depending on which way the aircraft turns, you can twist/untwist the 

rudder cables which will effectively shorten or lengthen the cables. 

 Loosen on the side inside the turn, and tighten on the outside of the 

turn.  It'll take some time, but unless the vertical fin is way out, you 

can compensate.  One way you can tell if the fin is the culprit (engine 

thrust line could also be the culprit) is that the rate of turn will be 

more pronounced at higher speeds.



Combinations of engine thrust and cable experimentation may be necessary.

Linn

Steven DiNieri wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



	Thanks for all the input. It seems fairly unanimous that some form

of rudder trim is preferred. Technically there's going to be two ways to

make it happen. Bias spring/servo type on the pedals under dash somewhere

or
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  servo/tab in the rudder. I'll probably spend most of today scratching my

head trying to find an elegant (read: simple) way to keep it under dash.

Choice 2 would be to cut a tab into the trailing edge of the rudder. I'm

not
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  quite happy about hanging a hinge off the trailing edge. A couple of

thoughts on the servo.....i do have an extra mac servo, but I might compare

the torque to a large scale servo from the rc world. The servo would be

lighter and the pwm operation would allow slide type control. A indicator

wouldn't be necessary as the slide would reflect tab position - left on the

slide is left trim, center slide is neutral trim.........

I'll report on how badly I've mangled the rudder later......



	

Steve

40205

jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.c
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

Steve



Have you considered putting Nav antennas in the wingtips? Makes for a real

clean install and I have heard mostly good reports about reception.

John Testement

jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com

40321

Richmond, VA

Finish kit - wheel fairings, cowl prep



Do not archive

--

capsteve

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:45 am Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

John, I'll probably add one for a 2nd nav reciever, but for ifr ops I'm

going to be most comfortable with a system that most resembles certified

spam can systems. Not so much that they're better, but reliable at best.

Steve 

40205

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>

 

 Steve

 

 Have you considered putting Nav antennas in the wingtips? Makes for a real

 clean install and I have heard mostly good reports about reception.

 

 

 John Testement

 jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com

 40321

 Richmond, VA

 Finish kit - wheel fairings, cowl prep

 

 Do not archive

 


	


-- 

No virus found in this outgoing message.

apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 4:32 am Post subject: Electric Rudder Trim ala Vic Syracuse

You might consider that many certified systems run 2 navs and 1 or 2

GS all off one nav antenna, and some are in fact built with nav

antennas in the wingtips. I know of at least one STC to remove tail

mounted nav antenna and replace it with one built into a fiberglass

wingtip. So if you are going to put an antenna in the wing tip, unless

you want to do the electronic comparison, there isn't a lot of reason

to have to nav antennas.



On 11/13/06, Steven DiNieri <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 John, I'll probably add one for a 2nd nav reciever, but for ifr ops I'm

 going to be most comfortable with a system that most resembles certified

 spam can systems. Not so much that they're better, but reliable at best.

 Steve

 40205

 > 

 > <jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com>

 >

 > Steve

 >

 > Have you considered putting Nav antennas in the wingtips? Makes for a real

 > clean install and I have heard mostly good reports about reception.

 >

 >

 > John Testement

 > jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com

 > 40321

 > Richmond, VA

 > Finish kit - wheel fairings, cowl prep

 >

 > Do not archive

 >



 --

 No virus found in this outgoing message.

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