 |
Matronics Email Lists Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Please, just one more: "You can always tell an engineer....but you
can't tell him much."
What IS the torque setting?....I just do mine by hand until it feels
right....seat-of-the-pants engineering as it were (or shade-tree
mechanics, to be more to the point)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:46 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
Quote: |
Yes Lynn - in fact they actually gave me a toque setting for the
bolt. I'm glad you reminded me though as I probably would have put
the adaptor on and then tensioned it right up.
And enough jokes about engineers - Ha
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
this message by persons or entities other than the intended
recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
“This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
and happy Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
19/01/2009 03:37 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Tail wheel
One other thing to remember, Gary....I'm sure your new spring setup
has one of the two main leaves with a larger hole on the tailwheel
ass'y end, does it not? Make sure that you don't tighten that
retaining bolt rock solid, but allow it a *tiny* bit of less-than
tight torque, so that the springs can flex, and thus gain and lose
comparative length....you know this as an engineer, right? (Not that
I'm holding that against you) : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:05 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
> I can't disagree with your reasoning. If yours works then that's
> all that matters.
>
> I have the adaptor in my hand and hope to get out to the plane this
> evening to make the mods - I'll report back.
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
> Classic 4 Jab 2200
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> 19/01/2009 02:57 PM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Tail wheel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maybe the newer spring angle is doing something to the spring, lock-
> pin,steering arm interface, I don't know. Obviously something has
> changed, and the spring angle is the only thing different, so you're
> doing what you have to do to change that. Because of the lack of a
> bend-back angle to the spring, your tail must be sitting higher, and
> this could lead to some differences in the plane's behavior.
>
> Lynn Matteson
>
>
>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===================================
www.matronics.com/contribution _-
============================================================
|
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:21 pm Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Yet another thought (as I lay in bed trying to forget this subject)
regarding the torqued bolt....why not use a castellated bolt, and
washers and cotter pin, perhaps drilling an additional cross-hole to
fine-tune the torque setting. I know mine gets loose and I have to
tighten it occasionally. And given the dictates of 43.13, which
stipulates (somewhere, I'm sure) that any bolt subject to movement
shall use a nut and cotter pin rather than a self-locking nut, or
words to that effect...doesn't it? This isn't the classic swiveling
bolt condition where the castle nut and cotter pin is required, but
it is similar.
I greased my leaves before I assembled the spring, for whatever
that's worth.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:46 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
Quote: |
Yes Lynn - in fact they actually gave me a toque setting for the
bolt. I'm glad you reminded me though as I probably would have put
the adaptor on and then tensioned it right up.
And enough jokes about engineers - Ha
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
this message by persons or entities other than the intended
recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
“This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
and happy Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
19/01/2009 03:37 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Tail wheel
One other thing to remember, Gary....I'm sure your new spring setup
has one of the two main leaves with a larger hole on the tailwheel
ass'y end, does it not? Make sure that you don't tighten that
retaining bolt rock solid, but allow it a *tiny* bit of less-than
tight torque, so that the springs can flex, and thus gain and lose
comparative length....you know this as an engineer, right? (Not that
I'm holding that against you) : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:05 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
>
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
> I can't disagree with your reasoning. If yours works then that's
> all that matters.
>
> I have the adaptor in my hand and hope to get out to the plane this
> evening to make the mods - I'll report back.
>
> Regards
>
> Gary
> Classic 4 Jab 2200
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> 19/01/2009 02:57 PM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Tail wheel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Maybe the newer spring angle is doing something to the spring, lock-
> pin,steering arm interface, I don't know. Obviously something has
> changed, and the spring angle is the only thing different, so you're
> doing what you have to do to change that. Because of the lack of a
> bend-back angle to the spring, your tail must be sitting higher, and
> this could lead to some differences in the plane's behavior.
>
> Lynn Matteson
>
>
>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===================================
www.matronics.com/contribution _-
============================================================
|
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 280 Location: Bellevue WA
|
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:32 pm Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
On Sun, January 18, 2009 9:14 pm, Lowell Fitt wrote:
Quote: | Not wanting to beat a dead horse, but maybe Maule needed the antishimmy
springs because of the angle they recommended for the pivot axis.
I made three drawings that illustrates the concept. The drawings are not
to scale but give relative dimensions. Drawing one is the tailwheel in the
Matteson configuration. Notice the distance between the pivot axis and the
contact point - wheel to ground. In this illustration it is 1.54 inches.
The second drawing shows the axis vertical, which I suspect would be ideal
in an unreal world.
|
Ideal would be unloaded airplane in the middle drawing, right hand configuration under
load.
Quote: | In this instance the distance between pivot axis and
ground contact is 1.35 inches. The third illustration is in the Maule
configuration and check the distance there. Now no one will ever convince
me that the third configuration will be most resistant to shimmy or best
tracking.
|
But it is the most resistant. Here's how to visualize that. For each condition shown,
starting from the shown position of the caster wheel begin to rotate the wheel about
the king pin axis and observer what that does to the tail position.
In the middle position axis vertical, no change in the tail height. In the left
drawing, rotation will cause the tail to lower slightly. In the right position it will
raise the tail slightly. So in the left position the weight on the tail tends to kick
the wheel out, the right position weight on the tail tends to push the wheel back to
neutral.
Shimmy occurs when there are opposite and varying small forces. One force is from the
friction force on the ground that tries to keep the wheel straight and the other is
the down force of the tail. And in the left position, that down force is pushing the
wheel out. A left right oscillation shimmy can occur as the wheel passes center the
forces reverse.
Your drawing job is excellent. If you expand on it by showing what happens to the
height of the tail when you pivot the caster wheel from trailing center, you'll see
that the tail goes down in the left case, stays the same in the middle case and goes
up in the right case.
To visualize this easily, exaggerate the caster angle to 45°. If you had it that much
trailing, you probably would not be able to turn it away from center. and if you had
it leading, it would probably always point to the side and would be difficult to
straighten.
The measurement of caster offset is along a line perpendicular to the king pin axis
through the center of the tire rotational axis. Not along a line parallel to the
ground as you seem to be implying. The caster offset is fixed by the forging size! The
8" Maule pneumatic wheel has a much bigger caster offset than that of the little solid
tire, as it should for higher tail loads. The bigger the caster offset the greater the
restoration torque will be from friction on the ground when the plane is not pointed
the same direction as the wheel is rolling.
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
gary.algate(at)sandvik.co Guest
|
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Jeez - I've never heard that one before...............................
I'll send you the torque settings tomorrow.
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
“This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
19/01/2009 04:43 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com cc
Subject
Re: Tail wheel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Please, just one more: "You can always tell an engineer....but you
can't tell him much."
What IS the torque setting?....I just do mine by hand until it feels
right....seat-of-the-pants engineering as it were (or shade-tree
mechanics, to be more to the point)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:46 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Yes Lynn - in fact they actually gave me a toque setting for the
> bolt. I'm glad you reminded me though as I probably would have put
> the adaptor on and then tensioned it right up.
>
> And enough jokes about engineers - Ha
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> 19/01/2009 03:37 PM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Tail wheel
>
>
>
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>
> One other thing to remember, Gary....I'm sure your new spring setup
> has one of the two main leaves with a larger hole on the tailwheel
> ass'y end, does it not? Make sure that you don't tighten that
> retaining bolt rock solid, but allow it a *tiny* bit of less-than
> tight torque, so that the springs can flex, and thus gain and lose
> comparative length....you know this as an engineer, right? (Not that
> I'm holding that against you) : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> New skis done and flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:05 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> > “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> > and happy Christmas".
> >
> >
> > I can't disagree with your reasoning. If yours works then that's
> > all that matters.
> >
> > I have the adaptor in my hand and hope to get out to the plane this
> > evening to make the mods - I'll report back.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gary
> > Classic 4 Jab 2200
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > 19/01/2009 02:57 PM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Tail wheel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe the newer spring angle is doing something to the spring, lock-
> > pin,steering arm interface, I don't know. Obviously something has
> > changed, and the spring angle is the only thing different, so you're
> > doing what you have to do to change that. Because of the lack of a
> > bend-back angle to the spring, your tail must be sitting higher, and
> > this could lead to some differences in the plane's behavior.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> > ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===================================
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
gary.algate(at)sandvik.co Guest
|
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Well while you're contemplating your navel here some photos and details of the adaptor bracket:
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
“This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
19/01/2009 04:36 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com cc
Subject
Re: Tail wheel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
That'll be a cold day in hell....wait a minute...it IS cold, and this
IS Hell, or close to it (there actually is a Hell, Michigan somewhat
nearby) so why not? Nahhh, the Sport Pilot thing again outlawing any
night flying...drat! Believe me, when I woke up at 2 am the other
day, and couldn't get back to sleep and I watched the thermometer
read 16.1 degrees F. below zero...then watched as it became warmer
and warmer, until it read about 3 above zero 4 hours later....yes,
you might say I have some spare time on my hands. : )
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:30 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> How could you possibly consider sleeping when something as
> "exciting" as this is going on. You need to get your night VFR
> endorsement so that you can make good use of all this "spare" time
> you have.
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> 19/01/2009 03:24 PM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Tail wheel
>
>
>
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>
> I'll be waiting...errrr...sleeping, but anticipating...: )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> New skis done and flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:05 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> > I can't disagree with your reasoning. If yours works then that's
> > all that matters.
> >
> > I have the adaptor in my hand and hope to get out to the plane this
> > evening to make the mods - I'll report back.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gary
> > Classic 4 Jab 2200
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > 19/01/2009 02:57 PM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Tail wheel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe the newer spring angle is doing something to the spring, lock-
> > pin,steering arm interface, I don't know. Obviously something has
> > changed, and the spring angle is the only thing different, so you're
> > doing what you have to do to change that. Because of the lack of a
> > bend-back angle to the spring, your tail must be sitting higher, and
> > this could lead to some differences in the plane's behavior.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> > ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===================================
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
454.15 KB |
Viewed: |
342 Time(s) |

|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
372.16 KB |
Viewed: |
342 Time(s) |

|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
456.3 KB |
Viewed: |
359 Time(s) |

|
Description: |
|
 Download |
Filename: |
img-1191544-0001.pdf |
Filesize: |
9.44 KB |
Downloaded: |
356 Time(s) |
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
gary.algate(at)sandvik.co Guest
|
Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:39 pm Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
You are dead right - it really should be a castellated nut - good idea about the grease too
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
“This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
19/01/2009 04:58 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com cc
Subject
Re: Tail wheel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Yet another thought (as I lay in bed trying to forget this subject)
regarding the torqued bolt....why not use a castellated bolt, and
washers and cotter pin, perhaps drilling an additional cross-hole to
fine-tune the torque setting. I know mine gets loose and I have to
tighten it occasionally. And given the dictates of 43.13, which
stipulates (somewhere, I'm sure) that any bolt subject to movement
shall use a nut and cotter pin rather than a self-locking nut, or
words to that effect...doesn't it? This isn't the classic swiveling
bolt condition where the castle nut and cotter pin is required, but
it is similar.
I greased my leaves before I assembled the spring, for whatever
that's worth.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:46 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Yes Lynn - in fact they actually gave me a toque setting for the
> bolt. I'm glad you reminded me though as I probably would have put
> the adaptor on and then tensioned it right up.
>
> And enough jokes about engineers - Ha
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> 19/01/2009 03:37 PM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Tail wheel
>
>
>
>
>
> --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
>
> One other thing to remember, Gary....I'm sure your new spring setup
> has one of the two main leaves with a larger hole on the tailwheel
> ass'y end, does it not? Make sure that you don't tighten that
> retaining bolt rock solid, but allow it a *tiny* bit of less-than
> tight torque, so that the springs can flex, and thus gain and lose
> comparative length....you know this as an engineer, right? (Not that
> I'm holding that against you) : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> New skis done and flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:05 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> > “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> > and happy Christmas".
> >
> >
> > I can't disagree with your reasoning. If yours works then that's
> > all that matters.
> >
> > I have the adaptor in my hand and hope to get out to the plane this
> > evening to make the mods - I'll report back.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gary
> > Classic 4 Jab 2200
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > 19/01/2009 02:57 PM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Tail wheel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe the newer spring angle is doing something to the spring, lock-
> > pin,steering arm interface, I don't know. Obviously something has
> > changed, and the spring angle is the only thing different, so you're
> > doing what you have to do to change that. Because of the lack of a
> > bend-back angle to the spring, your tail must be sitting higher, and
> > this could lead to some differences in the plane's behavior.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> > ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===================================
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008 Posts: 280 Location: Bellevue WA
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 12:11 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
On Sun, January 18, 2009 10:36 pm, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
Quote: | Well while you're contemplating your navel here some photos and details of
the adaptor bracket:
|
Gary - nice design, nice drawing, great photos and the craftsmanship is superb. You
obviously have access to tools. Maybe you packed them in with your plane in the big
trans-ocean crate.
How about a side elevation shot of with the tail wheel loaded? I suppose you have to
wait for the paint to dry. )
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:34 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
A self-effacing engineer from a model airplane email list used that
as part of his signature way back in another life.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 1:37 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
Quote: |
Jeez - I've never heard that one before...............................
I'll send you the torque settings tomorrow.
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
this message by persons or entities other than the intended
recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
“This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
and happy Christmas".
Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
19/01/2009 04:43 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
cc
Subject
Re: Tail wheel
Please, just one more: "You can always tell an engineer....but you
can't tell him much."
What IS the torque setting?....I just do mine by hand until it feels
right....seat-of-the-pants engineering as it were (or shade-tree
mechanics, to be more to the point)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:46 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> Yes Lynn - in fact they actually gave me a toque setting for the
> bolt. I'm glad you reminded me though as I probably would have put
> the adaptor on and then tensioned it right up.
>
> And enough jokes about engineers - Ha
>
> Gary
>
> Gary Algate
> SMC, Exploration
> Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
>
>
> This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
> kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we
> have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> and happy Christmas".
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> 19/01/2009 03:37 PM
> Please respond to
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
>
> To
> kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> cc
> Subject
> Re: Tail wheel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> One other thing to remember, Gary....I'm sure your new spring setup
> has one of the two main leaves with a larger hole on the tailwheel
> ass'y end, does it not? Make sure that you don't tighten that
> retaining bolt rock solid, but allow it a *tiny* bit of less-than
> tight torque, so that the springs can flex, and thus gain and lose
> comparative length....you know this as an engineer, right? (Not that
> I'm holding that against you) : )
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> New skis done and flying
> do not archive
>
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2009, at 12:05 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Gary Algate
> > SMC, Exploration
> > Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
> >
> >
> > This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the
> > addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of
> > this message by persons or entities other than the intended
> > recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in
error,
> > kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the
> > message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for
> > any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may
> > arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
> > “This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the
mail, we
> > have made a contribution to UNICEF Australia. We wish you a safe
> > and happy Christmas".
> >
> >
> > I can't disagree with your reasoning. If yours works then that's
> > all that matters.
> >
> > I have the adaptor in my hand and hope to get out to the plane
this
> > evening to make the mods - I'll report back.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Gary
> > Classic 4 Jab 2200
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
> > Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > 19/01/2009 02:57 PM
> > Please respond to
> > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> >
> > To
> > kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
> > cc
> > Subject
> > Re: Tail wheel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Maybe the newer spring angle is doing something to the spring,
lock-
> > pin,steering arm interface, I don't know. Obviously something has
> > changed, and the spring angle is the only thing different, so
you're
> > doing what you have to do to change that. Because of the lack of a
> > bend-back angle to the spring, your tail must be sitting
higher, and
> > this could lead to some differences in the plane's behavior.
> >
> > Lynn Matteson
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> > ===================================
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> www.matronics.com/contribution _-
> ===================================
www.matronics.com/contribution _-
============================================================
|
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 2:35 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Great-looking, Gary....got it on yet?
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 1:36 AM, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
Quote: |
Well while you're contemplating your navel here some photos and
details of the adaptor bracket:
regards
Gary
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
|
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fox5flyer Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 5:13 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Good write up, Lowell. Having had several Maule tail wheels on different
aircraft I've had my share of the shimmy problems also, both with the hard
tire and pneumatic. Somewhere I read a long time ago that there are only
two things you can do to keep the Maule from doing it's
shimmy-shimmy-shake-shake, and that is to keep the king pin vertical and to
have absolutely no slop in the mechanics anywhere. The first part is easy,
but the second is the toughest because IMO the Maule is a bad design from
the start. Sure, if you get everything perfect with it, it may not shimmy,
but most of them still do.
Currently I have a Maule Tundra which is a larger and a little heavier
unit with pneumatic tire (I needed the extra tail weight). It has a large
nut on the top with friction washers under it and Maule's answer to minimize
shimmy was to tighten the washer down until the shimmy stopped. Sheesh!
Great engineering. Curiously, my old Model 2 with the hard tire didn't
shimmy. I think it was something about the alignment of the planets when I
installed it.
Just wondering. Do the "Home Builders Special" units shimmy? I haven't
heard any mention of them. How about the Scott 3200?
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
---
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
dgolden(at)golden-consult Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:20 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Lynn Matteson wrote:
Quote: |
That article might be using a different Maule tailwheel assy than the
one I have or that you have....but remember, that article shows a
drawing, not a picture of the actual part. Drawing a picture takes
time...why would the author not just shoot a picture if he had all the
parts right there to do all the other pictures in the article?This
question leads me to view with some "suspicion" the whole article.
|
Ever stop to consider the possible shortage of digital cameras and image
software when the article was written?
Regards,
Dennis Model IV Speedster (someday)
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:38 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Hey, I just thought of something....all you shimmy-shimmy, shake-
shake (thanks Deke, I like that) guys...are you all using the stock,
narrow and tall bungee-style landing gear? The "Matteson
Geometry" (patent pending) uses the Maule tailwheel assembly with
aftermarket Aircraft Spruce Homebuilders Special Tailwheel
replacement wheel, the Grove main gear, and a rookie pilot....maybe
it's the total package that is what makes mine shimmy-free.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 18, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
[quote]
<lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
I love these discussions - lots of theory vs. what works.
Next time we have someone post a question on how to eliminate tail
wheel shimmy, the consensus will be to go to the Mateson geometry
to correct the problem. Talking about shopping cart shimmy, check
the offending castor next time you get one. One sure way it will
happen is if the nut holding the pivot is loose or the bearings are
shot, allowing the castor to go the way of Maule. Or if it hit a
curb and bent the structure to allow the Maule geometry.
Of course the other way to stop tail wheel shimmy is to use forward
stick on roll out taking weight off the wheel which will reduce the
Maule geonetry and increase the Matteson geometry.
I guess it depends on what you want in a tailwheel - forward
tracking or absense of shimmy. For me personally, I'd toss the
Maule instructions and just copy Lynns photo and put it in my book
- minus the third leaf, of course.
Lowell Fitt
Cameron Park, CA
Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
Just about ready to cover fuselage and left wing.
---
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:49 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
I sure did, Dennis, and the fact that he fills the article with
photos that have part names and numbers that have been
inserted...digitally, I presume....after "the fact" makes me say what
I did. Did you look at the article in question? I think it you had
you'd have the same question that I did....why not a pictorial side
view of the assembly instead of a drawing? He's got a rear-view of
the assembly, complete with a vertical reference line, a line showing
"undesirable tailwheel offset," etc, why....well, you get my drift.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 19, 2009, at 10:19 AM, Dennis Golden wrote:
Quote: |
consulting.com>
Lynn Matteson wrote:
>
>
> That article might be using a different Maule tailwheel assy than the
> one I have or that you have....but remember, that article shows a
> drawing, not a picture of the actual part. Drawing a picture takes
> time...why would the author not just shoot a picture if he had all
> the
> parts right there to do all the other pictures in the article?This
> question leads me to view with some "suspicion" the whole article.
Ever stop to consider the possible shortage of digital cameras and
image
software when the article was written?
Regards,
Dennis Model IV Speedster (someday)
--
Dennis Golden
Golden Consulting Services, Inc.
|
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:54 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
At $1000 + a pop, that sum'itch BETTER not shimmy! ...the Scott, that
is....
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 19, 2009, at 8:12 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
Quote: |
<fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>
|
Quote: | Just wondering. Do the "Home Builders Special" units shimmy? I
haven't heard any mention of them. How about the Scott 3200?
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
|
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fox5flyer Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:30 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Now, you might be on to something here, my good friend Herr Matteson.
Perhaps the wheel/tire itself has something to do with it, but somehow I
doubt it. More than likely it is the mechanicals of the Maule design that
make it finicky. If you've ever had one apart, you would see that they
aren't exactly a precision instrument.
I once had a Piper Vagabond PA17 with the Maule hard tire tail wheel. That
thing shimmied and shook so bad that I thought it would tear the back end of
the airplane apart. Of course, it didn't do it on the grass strip where I
bought it. It wasn't until later that I landed on a paved strip that it
reared it's ugly head. A quick look told me what the problem was. The
tailwheel spring, probably the original and 50+ years old, had lost most of
it's arc and the kingpin was tilted way back which made the thing work like
a worn out shopping cart. A $40 replacement spring assembly purchased from
Wicks solved the problem immediately. No more shimmy-shimmy-shake-shake!
It amazes me that we have so few choices for a decent tailwheel out there.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."
- Joseph Joubert
..Lynn scrawled:
[quote] Hey, I just thought of something....all you shimmy-shimmy, shake- shake
(thanks Deke, I like that) guys...are you all using the stock, narrow and
tall bungee-style landing gear? The "Matteson Geometry" (patent pending)
uses the Maule tailwheel assembly with aftermarket Aircraft Spruce
Homebuilders Special Tailwheel replacement wheel, the Grove main gear,
and a rookie pilot....maybe it's the total package that is what makes
mine shimmy-free.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
On Jan 18, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>
> I love these discussions - lots of theory vs. what works.
>
> Next time we have someone post a question on how to eliminate tail wheel
> shimmy, the consensus will be to go to the Mateson geometry to correct
> the problem. Talking about shopping cart shimmy, check the offending
> castor next time you get one. One sure way it will happen is if the nut
> holding the pivot is loose or the bearings are shot, allowing the castor
> to go the way of Maule. Or if it hit a curb and bent the structure to
> allow the Maule geometry.
>
> Of course the other way to stop tail wheel shimmy is to use forward
> stick on roll out taking weight off the wheel which will reduce the
> Maule geonetry and increase the Matteson geometry.
>
> I guess it depends on what you want in a tailwheel - forward tracking or
> absense of shimmy. For me personally, I'd toss the Maule instructions
> and just copy Lynns photo and put it in my book - minus the third leaf,
> of course.
>
> Lowell Fitt
> Cameron Park, CA
> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
> Just about ready to cover fuselage and left wing.
> ---
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fox5flyer Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:31 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
It wasn't too many years ago that it was going for $600. What did they do
to it?
We need more choices!
Deke
---
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
helili(at)chahtatushka.ne Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:11 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Raised the price.
John Hart
KF IV
NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
--
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:29 am Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Yeah, I've had mine apart and it's pretty crude, alright. I was just
hefting my (long since removed) Maule tailwheel, and that alone is a
chunk of weight. I cn imagine that once it got to shaking/wobbling,
it wouldn't want to quit.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
Sensenich 62x46
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
New skis done and flying
do not archive
On Jan 19, 2009, at 11:29 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
[quote]
<fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>
Now, you might be on to something here, my good friend Herr
Matteson. Perhaps the wheel/tire itself has something to do with
it, but somehow I doubt it. More than likely it is the mechanicals
of the Maule design that make it finicky. If you've ever had one
apart, you would see that they aren't exactly a precision instrument.
I once had a Piper Vagabond PA17 with the Maule hard tire tail
wheel. That thing shimmied and shook so bad that I thought it
would tear the back end of the airplane apart. Of course, it
didn't do it on the grass strip where I bought it. It wasn't until
later that I landed on a paved strip that it reared it's ugly
head. A quick look told me what the problem was. The tailwheel
spring, probably the original and 50+ years old, had lost most of
it's arc and the kingpin was tilted way back which made the thing
work like a worn out shopping cart. A $40 replacement spring
assembly purchased from Wicks solved the problem immediately. No
more shimmy-shimmy-shake-shake!
It amazes me that we have so few choices for a decent tailwheel out
there.
Deke Morisse
Mikado Michigan
S5/Subaru/CAP 402+ TT
"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but
progress."
- Joseph Joubert
...Lynn scrawled:
> Hey, I just thought of something....all you shimmy-shimmy, shake-
> shake (thanks Deke, I like that) guys...are you all using the
> stock, narrow and tall bungee-style landing gear? The "Matteson
> Geometry" (patent pending) uses the Maule tailwheel assembly with
> aftermarket Aircraft Spruce Homebuilders Special Tailwheel
> replacement wheel, the Grove main gear, and a rookie
> pilot....maybe it's the total package that is what makes mine
> shimmy-free.
>
> Lynn Matteson
> Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
> Jabiru 2200, #2062, 600.2 hrs
> Sensenich 62x46
> Electroair direct-fire ignition system
> New skis done and flying
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2009, at 1:36 PM, Lowell Fitt wrote:
>
>>
>> <lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net>
>>
>> I love these discussions - lots of theory vs. what works.
>>
>> Next time we have someone post a question on how to eliminate
>> tail wheel shimmy, the consensus will be to go to the Mateson
>> geometry to correct the problem. Talking about shopping cart
>> shimmy, check the offending castor next time you get one. One
>> sure way it will happen is if the nut holding the pivot is loose
>> or the bearings are shot, allowing the castor to go the way of
>> Maule. Or if it hit a curb and bent the structure to allow the
>> Maule geometry.
>>
>> Of course the other way to stop tail wheel shimmy is to use
>> forward stick on roll out taking weight off the wheel which will
>> reduce the Maule geonetry and increase the Matteson geometry.
>>
>> I guess it depends on what you want in a tailwheel - forward
>> tracking or absense of shimmy. For me personally, I'd toss the
>> Maule instructions and just copy Lynns photo and put it in my
>> book - minus the third leaf, of course.
>>
>> Lowell Fitt
>> Cameron Park, CA
>> Model IV-1200 R-912 UL
>> Just about ready to cover fuselage and left wing.
>>
>>
>> ---
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
gary.algate(at)sandvik.co Guest
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
Hopefully this afternoon I'll have it fitted and will post a photo - thanks Paul
Gary Algate
SMC, Exploration
Office Phone: +61 8 8276 7655
This e-mail is confidential and it is intended only for the addressees. Any review, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this message by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, kindly notify us immediately by telephone or e-mail and delete the message from your system. The sender does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which may arise as a result of the e-mail transmission.
“This year, instead of sending you a Christmas card in the mail, we have made a contribution to [url=Arial]UNICEF Australia[/url]. We wish you a safe and happy Christmas".
"Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul(at)eucleides.com>
Sent by: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com
19/01/2009 06:50 PM
Please respond to
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com To
kitfox-list(at)matronics.com cc
Subject
Re: Tail wheel
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Paul Franz - Merlin GT" <paul(at)eucleides.com>
On Sun, January 18, 2009 10:36 pm, gary.algate(at)sandvik.com wrote:
> Well while you're contemplating your navel here some photos and details of
> the adaptor bracket:
Gary - nice design, nice drawing, great photos and the craftsmanship is superb. You
obviously have access to tools. Maybe you packed them in with your plane in the big
trans-ocean crate.
How about a side elevation shot of with the tail wheel loaded? I suppose you have to
wait for the paint to dry. )
--
Paul A. Franz
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
|
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006 Posts: 2704 Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
|
Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: Tail wheel |
|
|
How about a spot for a drilled he4ad and a bit of lockwire?
Noel
--
| - The Matronics Kitfox-List Email Forum - | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List |
|
_________________ Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You cannot attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|