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Windsceen Lexan
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patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 2:16 pm Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Bob C Yes C I used the heat gun to bend or form plexi as well as drilling. I built a 2 piece windshield / cabin top. The cabin top is smoked and the windshield clear. They overlap at the crossmember at the top of the windshield and are riveted together. I did form the cabintop down with heat to lap under the windshield. I believe it is recommended to heat the 1 piece windshield after it is bent to relieve the stress at the major bends. Anyway get a heat gun some plexi and practice.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL

   

 From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

Date: Tue C 26 Aug 2008 20:03:59 -0400

   .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Pat - how about for bending? I would think that would be more important that it be warm (more flexible?) when bent(?)

  

 I know I'm more flexible when I'm bent... 

  

  Bob Brennan - N717GB

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly

Sent: 26 August 2008 7:56 pm

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

 

Bob C I think I heated to 120 degrees before drilling. I can't really remember. I used a heat gun C as I said C and a laser thermometer and practiced on a scrap piece first.

 

Do not archive

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL

  

From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

Date: Mon C 25 Aug 2008 19:34:06 -0400

  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Pat C

  

 I was thinking that the previous owner hadn't heated the current windscreen properly C or probably not at all C which is why I am getting stress cracks. In general the recommendation for lexan C that I have seen C is to not try to work with it at all under 70F. I am thinking the warmer the day the better for working with lexan. And warm days in the UK.... well let's just say it's a rarity!

  

 Bob Brennan - N717GB

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly

Sent: 25 August 2008 6:40 pm

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

 

Dave C You want a dull bit that won't grab. ACS sells a special  plexi bit C but I didn't use one. You can heat the material with a heat gun also then it is not brittle. I don't remember how hot I got it. I used a laser thermometer to test to get right temp in practice and then heated to that temp before drilling. Worked good for me.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL



[quote] From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

 Date: Mon C 25 Aug 2008 18:25:07 -0400

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>

 

 Thanks Dave C

 

 So that sounds like a recommendation for .080 or .093? I don't have a

 micrometer but the current windscreen starts to pulsate at a little over 75 C

 so it must be .060(?)

 

 There are some fairly sharp curves on my KF2 C which is where the cracks

 occurred. I am planning to use the old pieces as templates and cut the new

 with a Dremel with a cut-off wheel. With that I should be able to also

 smooth the edges. I imagine that using the right kind of drill bit to drill

 the rivet holes is important too C don't want any cracks there. A

 metal-drilling bit?

 

 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa 

 

 --

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 4:14 pm Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Pat - I like the idea of smoked lexan (BTW you did mean "lexan"  didn't you? not "plexi"?) on the top. My first flight out and I forgot to where  my cap - serious sunburn on my forehead and "thinning regions". Where did you  get smoked lexan?

  

  Bob Brennan -  N717GB

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade  prop

Wrightsville Pa



   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick  reilly

Sent: 27 August 2008 6:16 pm

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen  Lexan

 

Bob, Yes, I used the heat gun to bend or form plexi as well as  drilling. I built a 2 piece windshield / cabin top. The cabin top is smoked and  the windshield clear. They overlap at the crossmember at the top of the  windshield and are riveted together. I did form the cabintop down with heat to  lap under the windshield. I believe it is recommended to heat the 1 piece  windshield after it is bent to relieve the stress at the major bends. Anyway get  a heat gun some plexi and practice.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582  Rebuild

Rockford, IL

  

From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen  Lexan

Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:03:59 -0400

  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P { 	PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage { 	FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma }   Pat - how about for bending? I would think that would be more  important that it be warm (more flexible?) when bent(?)

  

 I know I'm more flexible when I'm bent... 

  

 Bob Brennan -  N717GB

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade  prop

Wrightsville Pa

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick  reilly

Sent: 26 August 2008 7:56 pm

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen  Lexan

 

Bob, I think I heated to 120 degrees before drilling. I can't really  remember. I used a heat gun, as I said, and a laser thermometer and practiced on  a scrap piece first.

 

Do not archive

 

Pat Reilly

Mod  3 582 Rebuild

Rockford, IL

  

From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen  Lexan

Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:34:06 -0400

 .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P { 	PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage { 	FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma }   Pat,

  

 I was thinking that the previous owner hadn't heated the current  windscreen properly, or probably not at all, which is why I am getting stress  cracks. In general the recommendation for lexan, that I have seen, is to not try  to work with it at all under 70F. I am thinking the warmer the day the better  for working with lexan. And warm days in the UK.... well let's just say it's a  rarity!

  

 Bob Brennan -  N717GB

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade  prop

Wrightsville Pa 

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick  reilly

Sent: 25 August 2008 6:40 pm

To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen  Lexan

 

Dave, You want a dull bit that won't grab. ACS sells a special   plexi bit, but I didn't use one. You can heat the material with a heat gun also  then it is not brittle. I don't remember how hot I got it. I used a laser  thermometer to test to get right temp in practice and then heated to that temp  before drilling. Worked good for me.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582  Rebuild

Rockford, IL



[quote] From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

 To:  kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen  Lexan

 Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 18:25:07 -0400

 

 -->  Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Brennan"  <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>

 

 Thanks Dave,

  

 So that sounds like a recommendation for .080 or .093? I don't have  a

 micrometer but the current windscreen starts to pulsate at a little  over 75,

 so it must be .060(?)

 

 There are some fairly  sharp curves on my KF2, which is where the cracks

 occurred. I am  planning to use the old pieces as templates and cut the new

 with a  Dremel with a cut-off wheel. With that I should be able to also

 smooth  the edges. I imagine that using the right kind of drill bit to drill

 the  rivet holes is important too, don't want any cracks there. A

  metal-drilling bit?

 

 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 1991 UK Model  2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa  

 

 --

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:41 pm Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Bob C Yes C I like the idea of a tinted cabintop. I was going to add the tinted film to clear plexi but Menards (a large lumber yard chain ) had a sheet of bronze tinted plexi with a corner broken off that was marked down about 25%. No C I used plexi not Lexan. One of the builders at the airport said he liked plexi better. There are pros and cons for both. I think he said plexi is more petrol resistant and doesn't scratch as easy C and can't be buffed out. I thought Lexan was more scratch resistant. I actually used a very flexable clear new plexi of some sort for the windshield. I don't know how it will prove out. It was called J Peg on something on that order. Someone on the website was asking about it and I thought it sounded good C so thats what I used. You can even cut it with sheetmetal shears without fracturing it. Seems rather soft. We'll see what happens.

  

 Pat Reilly

 Mod # 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL

   

 From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

Date: Wed C 27 Aug 2008 20:13:09 -0400

   .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Pat - I like the idea of smoked lexan (BTW you did mean "lexan" didn't you? not "plexi"?) on the top. My first flight out and I forgot to where my cap - serious sunburn on my forehead and "thinning regions". Where did you get smoked lexan?

  

  Bob Brennan - N717GB

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa



   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly

Sent: 27 August 2008 6:16 pm

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

 

Bob C Yes C I used the heat gun to bend or form plexi as well as drilling. I built a 2 piece windshield / cabin top. The cabin top is smoked and the windshield clear. They overlap at the crossmember at the top of the windshield and are riveted together. I did form the cabintop down with heat to lap under the windshield. I believe it is recommended to heat the 1 piece windshield after it is bent to relieve the stress at the major bends. Anyway get a heat gun some plexi and practice.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL

  

From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

Date: Tue C 26 Aug 2008 20:03:59 -0400

  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Pat - how about for bending? I would think that would be more important that it be warm (more flexible?) when bent(?)

  

 I know I'm more flexible when I'm bent... 

  

 Bob Brennan - N717GB

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly

Sent: 26 August 2008 7:56 pm

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

 

Bob C I think I heated to 120 degrees before drilling. I can't really remember. I used a heat gun C as I said C and a laser thermometer and practiced on a scrap piece first.

 

Do not archive

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL

  

From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

Date: Mon C 25 Aug 2008 19:34:06 -0400

  .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Pat C

  

 I was thinking that the previous owner hadn't heated the current windscreen properly C or probably not at all C which is why I am getting stress cracks. In general the recommendation for lexan C that I have seen C is to not try to work with it at all under 70F. I am thinking the warmer the day the better for working with lexan. And warm days in the UK.... well let's just say it's a rarity!

  

 Bob Brennan - N717GB

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 

   From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of patrick reilly

Sent: 25 August 2008 6:40 pm

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

 

Dave C You want a dull bit that won't grab. ACS sells a special  plexi bit C but I didn't use one. You can heat the material with a heat gun also then it is not brittle. I don't remember how hot I got it. I used a laser thermometer to test to get right temp in practice and then heated to that temp before drilling. Worked good for me.

 

Pat Reilly

Mod 3 582 Rebuild

Rockford C IL



[quote] From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Re: Windsceen Lexan

 Date: Mon C 25 Aug 2008 18:25:07 -0400

 

 --> Kitfox-List message posted by: "Bob Brennan" <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>

 

 Thanks Dave C

 

 So that sounds like a recommendation for .080 or .093? I don't have a

 micrometer but the current windscreen starts to pulsate at a little over 75 C

 so it must be .060(?)

 

 There are some fairly sharp curves on my KF2 C which is where the cracks

 occurred. I am planning to use the old pieces as templates and cut the new

 with a Dremel with a cut-off wheel. With that I should be able to also

 smooth the edges. I imagine that using the right kind of drill bit to drill

 the rivet holes is important too C don't want any cracks there. A

 metal-drilling bit?

 

 Bob Brennan - N717GB

 1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox

 Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

 Wrightsville Pa 

 

 --

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Pat, again I think there is still some confusion between  polycarbonate and Plexiglas.  Polycarbonate (Lexan, Rhino,  Manchester, and many other names) is soft and can be cut with tin snips,  drilled with a conventional drill bit, and bent in a sheet  metal brake.  The downside is that it is very soft and easily  scratched.  Plexiglass is hard, brittle, difficult to cut, can't be bent  very much without a lot of heat, resistant to scratching, yet brittle enough so  that it can easily be cracked if stressed.  Plexiglass is what is used in  certified aircraft and also what LP Aeroplastics supplies.  It sounds like  the J Peg you are referring to is polycarbonate, not Plexiglas.

 Polycarbonate is fine for experimental aircraft use, but  it will have to be changed more often than Plexiglas.

  

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 391+  TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but  progress."

- Joseph Joubert

  

 ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Deke-

LP Aeroplastics uses *acrylic*.....where does that fit into the grand  

scheme of things?



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")

do not archive





On Aug 28, 2008, at 7:42 AM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] Pat, again I think there is still some confusion between  

 polycarbonate and Plexiglas.  Polycarbonate (Lexan, Rhino,  

 Manchester, and many other names) is soft and can be cut with tin  

 snips, drilled with a conventional drill bit, and bent in a sheet  

 metal brake.  The downside is that it is very soft and easily  

 scratched.  Plexiglass is hard, brittle, difficult to cut, can't be  

 bent very much without a lot of heat, resistant to scratching, yet  

 brittle enough so that it can easily be cracked if stressed.   

 Plexiglass is what is used in certified aircraft and also what LP  

 Aeroplastics supplies.  It sounds like the J Peg you are referring  

 to is polycarbonate, not Plexiglas.

 Polycarbonate is fine for experimental aircraft use, but it will  

 have to be changed more often than Plexiglas.



 Deke Morisse

 Mikado Michigan

 S5/Subaru/CAP 391+ TT

 "The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but  

 progress."

 - Joseph Joubert



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:49 am Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Acrylic  --  Plexiglass,  same thing.

Do you have all your parts yet?

Deke



---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Not all of 'em...they sent a crank, but without the 6mm dowels in the  

gear end or the welch/welsh plugs that are needed. I got the gear  

case cover and gear that was supposed to take 2-4 weeks from  

Australia yesterday. So I can start to assemble the short block, but  

I'm waiting for word on some piston rings...locally, I hope. Too many  

pitfalls to list, but part of the problem is it's taking too long to  

get answers back from Australia, and when they do answer (through the  

dealer, never to me) the answer seems to have been written by a  

lawyer...vague, short answers...for example...."heat the head..."     

HOW HOT? 400°  1000°  3000°? WHAT? You can tell I'm gettin' pi - - ed!



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200, 562 hrs and holding for repairs

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")

do not archive





On Aug 28, 2008, at 12:49 PM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] 

 <fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net>



 Acrylic  --  Plexiglass,  same thing.

 Do you have all your parts yet?

 Deke



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:50 am Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

All Plexiglas is acrylic,but not all acrylic is Plexiglas. ;o)   Larry



---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:47 am Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Larry Huntley [asq(at)roadrunner.com] 

 All Plexiglas is acrylic, but not all acrylic is Plexiglas. ;o)   Larry


	


.. what? Do you mean to say that the acrylic paint I used for these:

http://home.online.no/~michel/paint/

is not Plexiglas? ... 



Michel

Do not archive

<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

larry huntley

Joined: 19 Jul 2008
Posts: 149

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:51 pm Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Beautiful display Michel. Thank you for sharing!   Larry



---

_________________
Larry Huntley,Dundee,NY
Kitfox 4-1200 N234EE
EA81,AMAX Redrive Warp 3 blade

patreilly43(at)hotmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: Windsceen Lexan

Deke C Thanks for the clarification. I must have used polycarbonate for the windshield and bronze tinted plexi for the cabintop and turtleback hatch. That was my 1st experience with polycarbonate. I was very surprised how flexible it is. Has anyone else tried a 2 piece windshield and cabintop vs. the 1 piece? I will be mounting it next week. I built it last winter and just finished the paint. Looks pretty good. Could have been better if I could have learned how to look into the light a little sooner. Hardest part of building a plane or car is the paint. It is an art that needs to be excercised more that every 5 to 10 years. 

 Do not archive

 Pat Reilly

 Mod 3 582 Rebuild

 Rockford C IL 

   

 From: fox5flyer(at)idealwifi.net

To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Windsceen Lexan

Date: Thu C 28 Aug 2008 07:42:25 -0400

   .ExternalClass .EC_hmmessage P {padding-right:0px;padding-left:0px;padding-bottom:0px;padding-top:0px;} .ExternalClass BODY.EC_hmmessage {font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma;}   Pat C again I think there is still some confusion between polycarbonate and Plexiglas.  Polycarbonate (Lexan C Rhino C Manchester C and many other names) is soft and can be cut with tin snips C drilled with a conventional drill bit C and bent in a sheet metal brake.  The downside is that it is very soft and easily scratched.  Plexiglass is hard C brittle C difficult to cut C can't be bent very much without a lot of heat C resistant to scratching C yet brittle enough so that it can easily be cracked if stressed.  Plexiglass is what is used in certified aircraft and also what LP Aeroplastics supplies.  It sounds like the J Peg you are referring to is polycarbonate C not Plexiglas.

 Polycarbonate is fine for experimental aircraft use C but it will have to be changed more often than Plexiglas.

  

 Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 391+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory C but progress."

- Joseph Joubert

  

 ---

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