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mattreeves(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:53 pm Post subject: What starter materials for fiberglass would you recommend? |
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Thanks for the kind words John!! I'm more than happy to help out anyone who has questions with fiberglass. I'm not an expert, just a guy with an opinion and a hell of a lot of sanding under my belt!! 
mattreeves(at)yahoo.com (mattreeves(at)yahoo.com)
John, what's your opinion on Sikkens vs. Imron? I've always used Imron 5 & 6000 and LOVE it but heard Sikkens is more user friendly. I did see an RV-7A painted with Sikkens and buffed to perfection and it was awesome!
Just wondering.
Have a great day.
Matt
"John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:
[quote] Matt, after thirty years of car restoration and yes, aircraft painting. I can clearly endorse your below post as a treatise for a “Masters in Fiberglas” in 1,000 words or less (935 to be exact).
RV-10 builders should use this as a roadmap to their diploma’s as well. They may have a little trouble with visualization of some of the products right now, but in time, they will go Wow, “Matt really knew his stuff”.
Lance was right, if it’s not Clean it won’t stick. If the air is too humid, it won’t stick. 70-75 the porridge should be just right. That is air temperature and the temperature of the resin.
John Cox
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Reeves
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 5:53 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: What starter materials for fiberglass would you recommend?
Jim,
Bruce is right. I built a Lancair and taught my brother all I know about fiberglass for his RV-7A. The number 1 thing to remember is cleanliness. Lance - designer of Lancair always said, "If it ain't clean, it ain't gunna stick." You MUST scratch up good the area that needs to be bonded and I mean with 40-80 grit and then vacuum it good, then acetone or MEK with a clean cloth, then sand 40-80 grit again (because wiping with acetone may have spread dirt or residue into the scratches). Use a paint brush and paint some mixed up resin onto the clean scratched up surface. Not a lot, just enough to get it wet.
(This should already be done and waiting) - Fiberglass is a woven cloth. You'll almost always use the weave like small XXX's to get the most strength - what this means when you unravel the roll of fiberglass you get from Aircraft Spruce or wherever, you will cut strips of it on a 45 degree angle - ususally about 2 inches wide - or whatever you need) Do the layup as the link suggests - although I don't use a sponge to saturate, I just pour it on there and spread it out with my paint brush - I think the sponge might offer some contaminates but whatever works. Put plastic on the top and I use a long screw I got from Home Depot but Aircraft Spruce now has a tool that looks like a miniature rolling pin but it's grooved like a screw. Get it. Don't push too hard or not hard enough. You just want to squeeze out excess resin - that's it - if it gets white, you took out too much resin - put more back in. When you apply the sandwich, make sure you peel off the plastic. Sounds stupid but EVERYONE has done it. Use a colored plastic to remind you. When applied, use your long 4-6 inch screw or tool from ACS and push out as many air bubbles as you can without pushing out too much resin. You can do you over and over. If it's starting to cure, and you can't push out anymore, I use a pin to poke the air bubble until it escapes.
I had a reaction to West System and switched to Jeffco which Aircraft Spruce sells. It is clear to greenish and has no smell. I like it better. The MOST important thing is the mixing ratio has to be perfect. After you have your mixture, you can do whatever you want with it - saturate the cloth, mix up micro, flox, or whatever. There are no set amounts of the fillers so if you want micro wet and runny, use less - if you want strength and less pinholes, use 90% micro bubbles and 10% cabosil - which looks like sugar but it contains some particles to prevent micro from sagging on vertical surfaces, but it also helps prevent pinholes somewhat.
You will always have pinholes. There is some cool new stuff now called rage that is a cool filler guaranteed not to have pinholes but you'll still get a few.
You asked about slow and fast hardeners. Use slow until you get the hang of it. But definately the factor on both is temperature. 70-75 is ideal. Never let mixed up resin sit around while you do something else. It will exotherm or boil and gets hot, smokes, and stinks. When you mix it up, get to it. There is no stopping resin from curing so if the phone rings, forget it - even if it's the Million dollar sweepstakes notifying you are a winner!
Have a garbage can ready. Acetone will clean up messes pretty good.
There's a thousand things I could tell you. Making the layup is just one step. Filling it is a whole other ball game. Never use filler over cured fiberglass without sanding and cleaning just as before - this time using about 120-180 grit. Make sure the clear appearance is gone. Clean with acetone, sand, vacuum and paint wet resin and apply filler. I use a razor blade to push it down into all the holes well without a lot of left over sanding to do.
Here's a trick to save you some time. Use peel-ply exactly like a layer of glass. Make sure you have it on the TOP and not the bottom when you apply the layup. When cured, simply peel it off and no sanding or cleaning is necessary to apply more layers of fiberglass OR apply filler - still paint a thin layer of wet resin on it though if you need to fill.
When mostly done, ONLY use 3M foam sanding blocks. Spray glue 100-180 grit to it. I'd use at least a 1 foot block and no less than 6 inches. Spray some crappy black spray paint on it - let it dry and sand at 45 degrees and then 90. You are looking for high and low spots. You will sand off high and the paint will show the low. Don't ruin the fiberglass by sanding too low just to get rid of the low spots. Sand and fill those spots with micro - micro/flox if they are deeper.
Anyway, I hope this helps a little. My brother Danny (RV-7A) has a nice write up and description of the entire process with good pictures and it has some good pointers. I'll find that and send it to you too.
Good luck.
WEAR a mask.
Matt Reeves
Rochester, NY
Bruce Patton <bpattonsoa(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote] That is a Masters Degree in dreaded fiberglass. The Finding fabulous fares is fun.
[url=http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097;_ylc=X3oDMTFtNW45amVpBF9TAzk3NDA3NTg5BF9zAzI3MTk0ODEEcG9zAzEEc2VjA21haWx0YWdsaW5lBHNsawNxMS0wNw-- ]Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites[/url] to find flight and hotel bargains. [quote][b]
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AV8ORJWC
Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"
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| Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:50 pm Post subject: What starter materials for fiberglass would you recommend? |
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Imron (DuPont tm) was the rage twenty years ago (oh gosh, it was over 30) when I painted a Frat Fire truck and a bunch of Corvettes. It was the first beer or fuel impervious paint. Due to my affinity for BMWs, I have come to appreciate the Sikkens line. Azko does pretty well as an alternative. For downright common sense and cost, I think both Randy and Tim hit it on the head with PPG White. Randy’s was GMC color and Tim’s was Base tint. You can’t get closer for panel repair after a hangar rash incident.
Scott, you can pipe in here about your tail and your Pearl. We have missed your posts… your night shots are beautiful.
Two part catalytic or Clear Topcoat sanded with 1500 or 2000 and then three step power buff cannot be beat. But then again it’s just an opinion and boy does it take hours (days). I hear Deems chuckle in the background that I just slid back to a completion date in 2021.
John
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Reeves
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 8:53 PM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: What starter materials for fiberglass would you recommend?
Thanks for the kind words John!! I'm more than happy to help out anyone who has questions with fiberglass. I'm not an expert, just a guy with an opinion and a hell of a lot of sanding under my belt!!
mattreeves(at)yahoo.com (mattreeves(at)yahoo.com)
John, what's your opinion on Sikkens vs. Imron? I've always used Imron 5 & 6000 and LOVE it but heard Sikkens is more user friendly. I did see an RV-7A painted with Sikkens and buffed to perfection and it was awesome!
Just wondering.
Have a great day.
Matt
"John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> wrote:
[quote]
Matt, after thirty years of car restoration and yes, aircraft painting. I can clearly endorse your below post as a treatise for a “Masters in Fiberglas” in 1,000 words or less (935 to be exact).
RV-10 builders should use this as a roadmap to their diploma’s as well. They may have a little trouble with visualization of some of the products right now, but in time, they will go Wow, “Matt really knew his stuff”.
Lance was right, if it’s not Clean it won’t stick. If the air is too humid, it won’t stick. 70-75 the porridge should be just right. That is air temperature and the temperature of the resin.
John Cox
[b]
| | - The Matronics RV10-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List |
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