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Europa-list: fitting gascolator

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air.guerner(at)wanadoo.fr
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



William wrote:=E2=80=9D I was going to fit a mini Andair a couple of years ago, when they were all

the rage, but when I talked to Nev, he persuaded me not to bother because he

considered the twin filters was a better system, apart from the water

aspect=E2=80=9D.

I am surprised to read this while Europas keep force-landing or crashing due to fuel filter contamination (read the article on the forced landing of OY-ODA in Europa Flyer # 46)

A fuel filter should have at least:

- a screen area large enough for the fuel flow.

- a drain valve for draining the contaminants (water and solid stuff) before each day of flight.

The filters supplied by Europa Aircraft have none of those characteristics and are therefore potentially dangerous. This is especially true as most of us are using Mogas which is more likely to be contaminated, even when using a filtering funnel at every fill up. The dual filter arrangement is a big improvement but is not fully satisfactory. Keep in mind that the filter has the most chance to clog and the engine to stop, when the fuel flow is maximum, i.e. during the take off phase. I believe you would crash before having time to switch to the other filter, should that happen to you.

When I was flying with the Rotax 914, I experienced several engine stoppages, at cruise, due to filter contamination. Fortunately, thanks for the dual filter arrangement, the engine resumed running when the second fuel pump was turned on, and I managed to land safely on an airport every time. Some others have not been as lucky.

Replacing the dual in-line filters by dual gascolators was the first modification I made to my aircraft.

When I installed the 912S, I removed 1 of them. 914 owners have to consider that the fuel flow through the filter can be as much as 4 to 5 times the fuel consumption of the engine, due to the huge flow returned back to the tank. Therefore the filter(s) on 914 installation must be designed as for a 500 HP engine!

My recommendation is to throw away the supplied in-line filters and use one (or two) gascolators big enough for the task. There are plenty of sources on the market. A gascolator will also be a lot easier to service than the in-line filters. If you are using the Andair GAS375, make sure you have the new filter screen which is has a lot bigger screen area than the original model.

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted with the 912S.

flyinggpa(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:16 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



All

I fitted the Mini Gascolator GAS125 to a Rotax 912S. It works very well and has far more capacity than the fuel pumps can demand. It is a very good water trap and catches the very smallest of FOD that find there way into my tank. I do not think that a larger unit is needed for this installation. Just my two cense worth.

Cliff Shaw

1041 Euclid ave.

Edmonds, WA 98020

425 776 5555

http://www.europaowners.org/WileE

PS: I wish it would stop raining 

. Therefore the filter(s) on 914 installation must be designed as for a 500 HP engine!

My recommendation is to throw away the supplied in-line filters and use one (or two) gascolators big enough for the task. There are plenty of sources on the market. A gascolator will also be a lot easier to service than the in-line filters. If you are using the Andair GAS375, make sure you have the new filter screen which is has a lot bigger screen area than the original model.

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



Bravo Remi for your courage to denounce a system that failed.

Karel Vranken

karelvranken(at)hotmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:58 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



Well done Cliff.

Karel Vranken

garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 filters has been just fine.

I changed the filters once after the first 10 hours, and then again at 175

hours. I now have 400 hours and will probably change them at my next annual

inspection. I've never had a problem. Oh, and I use mogas, unfiltered, and

I've never had any water in my tanks either.

Garry Stout

N4220S A060 Trigear 914, 400 hours

SPurpura(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:26 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



I disagree that Mogas is not a clean fuel. The only place you will get dirty

fuel over in the USA would be at the airport as auto fuel retailers have a

much

cleaner product as they are held to a higer standard than the FBO retailer and

after checking your filters after using 100LL you would agree.

mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:21 am Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 filters has been just

fine.

	


250 hrs in and never a filter problem in G-JULZ. I echo your comments.

Please let us not criticise a system that is operating successfully in

dozens of aircraft because of a suspect installation/fuel supply.

regards,

MP

air.guerner(at)wanadoo.fr
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:58 am Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



My own experience is just the opposite. I flew my previous aircraft (a certified ROBIN with a O-360 Lycoming running exclusively on AVGAS) for 10 years and 800 hours, without having ever found anything in the gascolator screen. Since I fly the Europa, mainly on MOGAS, I keep finding some dirt, most of it stays in the filtering funnel, some find its way to the tank. So, better be careful and have a good filter/gascolator.

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL, S/N395, XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted with

the 912S.

I disagree that Mogas is not a clean fuel. The only place you will get dirty

fuel over in the USA would be at the airport as auto fuel retailers have a

much

cleaner product as they are held to a higer standard than the FBO retailer and

after checking your filters after using 100LL you would agree.

air.guerner(at)wanadoo.fr
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:46 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



Gary Stout wrote: Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914 filters has been just fine

Gary,

Obviously you belong to the majority of Europa owners who have yet to experience an engine stoppage due to fuel contamination and therefore say that the original in line filters are just fine. We had two Europa accidents here in France due to clogged filters: one killed the pilot; the other one damaged the airplane extensively and the pilot was very lucky. This is for a small fleet of 17 Europas flying in this country. So one out of ten crashed due to clogged filters ! This can happen to you! Don't take chances, upgrade your fuel system with a good gascolator.

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL, S/N395, XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted with

the 912S.

jeff(at)rmmm.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



I've been following this thread and I think I want to step in here. I

mounted my filters under an armrest door/ cover in the tunnel just

between the seats. I can open the hatch and look at the filters in

flight and on pre flight instantly. My thoughts are if your engine goes

silent, change to the other side of the tank as that filter should be

clear. Land and replace both. I mean isn't that why we have two anyway?

Jeff

A258

Towing to the airport as soon as I get over this flu!

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Gary Stout wrote: Hmmmmmmm. My experience with the two inline 914

filters has been just fine

Gary,

Obviously you belong to the majority of Europa owners who have yet to

experience an engine stoppage due to fuel contamination and therefore

say that the original in line filters are just fine. We had two

Europa accidents here in France due to clogged filters: one killed the

pilot; the other one damaged the airplane extensively and the pilot

was very lucky. This is for a small fleet of 17 Europas flying in this

country. So one out of ten crashed due to clogged filters ! This can

happen to you! Don't take chances, upgrade your fuel system with a

good gascolator.

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL, S/N395, XS monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since

fitted with

the 912S.

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



Hi!

Well said "Rmi".

I think it's rather like landing "gear up"....there's those that have

and those that will!!!!!!

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 c/w gascolator, water drain

valves, filler gauze and tank connectors re-drilled .!

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 3:36 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



Hi! Jeff

Sorry about the 'flu. It's more topical over here!

I hear your theory but it has one slight draw back..... the reserve side

will attract a bigger deposit of contamination (since that side gets all

the fill up fuel and the main side on the other side of the tunnel has

consequently less chance of contamination.) So when you switch to the

reserve side(having had the "splutters" from the main)you can bet it

will be for a very short time !

Sorry guys IMHO and experience the inline filters just can not

accommodate, or for that matter certainly not separate any water.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 c/w gascolator ....etc etc.!

then there's the dog hairs!!!! Beat you to the punch Nev!

mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest

Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:05 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



 	  Quote: 	
		   I hear your theory but it has one slight draw back..... the reserve side

will attract a bigger deposit of contamination (since that side gets all

the fill up fuel and the main side on the other side of the tunnel has

consequently less chance of contamination.) So when you switch to the

reserve side(having had the "splutters" from the main)you can bet it

will be for a very short time !

Sorry guys IMHO and experience the inline filters just can not

accommodate, or for that matter certainly not separate any water.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 c/w gascolator ....etc etc.!

then there's the dog hairs!!!! Beat you to the punch Nev!

	


Bob,

This seems to me to be a question of care and good practices. If one is

careful to keep any rubbish out of the system during the building, and

filter all fuel that goes into the tank, clogging should not be an issue.

The small deposits that will accumulate overtime are adequately handled by

routine filter changes.

I don't think the Proline filters are intended to be water seperators - just

inline filters.

Of course large filters might be required if one's power unit uses a lot of

fuel.(teehee!!)

regards,

Mike

3 German Shepherds but never a problem of doghair in the workshop.

mikenjulie.parkin(at)btop
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:44 am Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



 	  Quote: 	
		   The filters supplied by Europa Aircraft have none of those characteristics

and are therefore potentially dangerous. This is especially true as most

of us are using Mogas which is more likely to be contaminated, even when

using a filtering funnel at every fill up. The dual filter arrangement is

a big improvement but is not fully satisfactory. Keep in mind that the

filter has the most chance to clog and the engine to stop, when the fuel

flow is maximum, i.e. during the take off phase. I believe you would crash

before having time to switch to the other filter, should that happen to

you.

Remi Guerner

F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 288 hours on a 914 + 89 hours since fitted

with the 912S.

	


Remi,

I have the original pump and filter layout for a 914 installation. On the

original installation there is no facility to switch to a second filter.

Fuel flow through the standby filter depends totally on the standby pump.

My experience has shown that what contamination there may be in the system,

it has never manifested itself in the 'standby filter'. Possibly because I

only use the secondary pump during critical flight phases (generally below

1000' AGL). That means if following the correct operating procedures, both

pumps are ON during take-off and initial climb - therefore both filters and

both pumps are in use when the fuel flow is at a maximum. Switching from

MAIN to RESERVE will only be of benefit if there is a flow restriction

before the fuel selector. ( perhaps the finger strainer - which is were I

understand Bob Harrison's problem was.)

Incidentally, I did have a splutter in the cruise when I purposely ran the

MAIN side down to get a feel for the usuable fuel indication. (Overhead the

field!!). I fitted a fuel Low Pressure light to G-JULZ - the light blinked

several times before the engine 'coughed' giving a little warning of the

impending problem.

regards,

Mike

BEBERRY(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 1:26 am Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



Hi! Mike.

I thought I had been meticulous but as you said it was the finger

filters which caught me out and for what it's worth if all that they

both had collected were to be put into the gascolator it would still NOT

have starved the engine (No matter how much fuel it uses !)

So now I don't have finger filters, I have opened up the drilling

intersections within the tank connectors and use a fine gauze filter in

the filler when filling but I bet if you tried you'd get German Shepherd

hairs through it (end on!) and your finger filters would manage to grab

them if you had the misfortune to get the problem.

The irony in my case was that, even though I only use the reserve side

the requisite occasional proof period, it had collected sufficient to

suffer the same problem as the main side so both finger filters had

failed within 10 minutes of each other with nothing found in the

gascolator further down the line. My experience with the Europa in line

original filters was early during test flying from tank swarf in the

usual manner often found.

Regards

Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 (able to use as much fuel as

it needs at all times !)

bryan(at)blackballclub.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 2:36 pm Post subject: Europa-list: fitting gascolator



My experience is the same as Gary's. 100's of hours with no problems using

the Europa in line filters.

One exception though! I normally filter when using mogas. On one occasion

this year I used a can of someone else's mogas en-route to France. One hour

later the fuel pressure dropped really low, even with the electric pump

doubling up. I switched to the other fuel line with the second filter, and

the pressure came back up. After landing I cleaned a load of rubbish out of

the first filter, the second was clean.

I flew the rest of the trip around France on the first filter without

problem. Some weeks later the problem started to come back, so I stripped

the filter again and examined the debris under a microscope. Surprisingly,

the contents looked like scraps of ant bodies. Legs, heads, body parts. It

has never recurred, but how they got in there is a test of the imagination.

Cheers. Bryan Allsop

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