Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

IFR
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: IFR

I just want to thank all the recent posts about  obtaining IFR before completing my 10.  I have about 150 hours and am going  to start training after the New Year.  I always thought I would do it in  the 10 after it was built, but I feel the comments I have read make good  sense.  I would like to know if anyone has used the Sporties DVD series and  if those kinds of programs are worth getting.  How about the IFR crash  courses?  Obviously safety and solid training are number one, but you sure  can spend alot of money on the rating.  I told my wife when she bought me  the tail kit, she had no idea what she started!  Somtimes I wish I had  fallen in love with needle-point.

  

 Dave Leikam

 40496

  

 do not archive

   [quote][b]

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:39 am Post subject: IFR

Dave,



I think this will be really beneficial to you, and will give you some

good experience.  I'm sorry that I can't recommend course material.

I was a poor boy at the time, so I bought the cheap Gliem's books

and just read them and took the test....from there it was all flight

time.  As long as you don't fall asleep during videos, there's a lot

you can get from them, and I have seen the Jepp books look pretty

too.  In the end, it's the black and white knowledge you need for

the written, and the flight time you need for the practical.  The

best advice probably anyone can give is to try to get out in some

actual IMC with your instructor.  (Sorry it's winter up here now

so it won't always be safe to be in IMC)  You may actually

want to just start firing up on the book work early next year and

try to complete the written in March/April.  Maybe get 10 or 15

hours in between now and then.  But then in April, kick off

your harder IFR flight training with your instructor in IMC.

We're lucky to have some nice soggy but smooth days up here in

the spring.  I myself get leery of icing at this time of the

year.  You're certainly in for an adventure.  I'd have to say that

my instrument training was the most fun flying instruction I've

had, and it quickly changes the way you fly the plane.  You're

so busy with flying precisely that you don't even think about

many of the things that preoccupied you during your private.

It's gonna be a blast.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Dave Leikam wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I just want to thank all the recent posts about obtaining IFR before 

 completing my 10.  I have about 150 hours and am going to start training 

 after the New Year.  I always thought I would do it in the 10 after it 

 was built, but I feel the comments I have read make good sense.  I would 

 like to know if anyone has used the Sporties DVD series and if those 

 kinds of programs are worth getting.  How about the IFR crash courses?  

 Obviously safety and solid training are number one, but you sure can 

 spend alot of money on the rating.  I told my wife when she bought me 

 the tail kit, she had no idea what she started!  Somtimes I wish I had 

 fallen in love with needle-point.

  

 Dave Leikam

 40496

  

 do not archive

 

 *

jdalton77(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:54 am Post subject: IFR

Dave,

 I used the Sporty's DVDs for my private but switched to the King School DVDs for my instrument.  I found them to be much more detailed and better than the Sporty's DVDs, and not nearly as boring to watch.  The King's a kind of entertaining!

 I was able to do my IFR training with just the DVDs and the flight training.  I didn't go for any ground school at all - the DVDs were plenty.  I felt good about the knowledge they provided me when i took my verbal and written.

 They are a little bit pricey but I found mine on eBay for 50% off - then I sold them on eBay when I was done for about the same price I bought them for.  You can probably find mine on eBay after the next guy (or 2) gets done with them!

 Jeff

 [quote]-------------- Original message -------------- 

From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com> 

[quote] --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson 

 Dave, 

 I think this will be really beneficial to you, and will give you some 

 good experience. I'm sorry that I can't recommend course material. 

 I was a poor boy at the time, so I bought the cheap Gliem's books 

 and just read them and took the test....from there it was all flight 

 time. As long as you don't fall asleep during videos, there's a lot 

 you can get from them, and I have seen the Jepp books look pretty 

 too. In the end, it's the black and white knowledge you need for 

 the written, and the flight time you need for the practical. The 

 best advice probably anyone can give is to try to get out in some 

 actual IMC w  ith yo ur instructor. (Sorry it's winter up here now 

 so it won't always be safe to be in IMC) You may actually 

 want to just start firing up on the book work early next year and 

 try to complete the written in March/April. Maybe get 10 or 15 

 hours in between now and then. But then in April, kick off 

 your harder IFR flight training with your instructor in IMC. 

 We're lucky to have some nice soggy but smooth days up here in 

 the spring. I myself get leery of icing at this time of the 

 year. You're certainly in for an adventure. I'd have to say that 

 my instrument training was the most fun flying instruction I've 

 had, and it quickly changes the way you fly the plane. You're 

 so busy with flying precisely that you don't even think about 

 many of the things that preoccupied you during your private. 

 It's gonna be a blast. 

 Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying 

   do no t archive 

 Dave Leikam wrote: 

 > I just want to thank all the recent posts about obtaining IFR before 

 > completing my 10. I have about 150 hours and am going to start training 

 > after the New Year. I always thought I would do it in the 10 after it 

 > was built, but I feel the comments I have read make good sense. I would 

 > like to know if anyone has used the Sporties DVD series and if those 

 > kinds of programs are worth getting. How about the IFR crash courses? 

 > Obviously safety and solid training are number one, but you sure can 

 > spend alot of money on the rating. I told my wife when she bought me 

 > the tail kit, she had no idea what she started! Somtimes I wish I had 

 > fallen in love with needle-point. 

 > 

 > Dave Leikam 

 > 40496 

 > 

 > do not archive 

 > 

 >   *

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: IFR

Dave 

 I am following the same methodology, I just completed the  written portion using the Kings video course, and in my opinion it was very well  done. Contact me off list and we can discuss it more. I would be happy to loan  them to you to finish your written, as long as I get them back for study later.  I have about 10 hours simulated time, and plan on finishing up before first  flight next year.

 Dan

  



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave  Leikam

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:15 AM

To:  matronics

Subject: IFR

 

 I just want to thank all the recent posts about  obtaining IFR before completing my 10.  I have about 150 hours and am going  to start training after the New Year.  I always thought I would do it in  the 10 after it was built, but I feel the comments I have read make good  sense.  I would like to know if anyone has used the Sporties DVD series and  if those kinds of programs are worth getting.  How about the IFR crash  courses?  Obviously safety and solid training are number one, but you sure  can spend alot of money on the rating.  I told my wife when she bought me  the tail kit, she had no idea what she started!  Somtimes I wish I had  fallen in love with needle-point.

  

 Dave Leikam

 40496

  

 do not archive

[quote]



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List



[b]

DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:07 pm Post subject: IFR

Thanks for offering the DVDs Dan, but I am trying  to get a set of my own for Xmas.  I like to own and keep reference  materials like that.  I do appreciate the offer.

  

 Dave Leikam

 40496

 Do not archive

 [quote]   ---

Bill Schlatterer

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 195

Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2006 8:42 pm Post subject: IFR

Dave, the Sporties DVDs are good as filler but I think the  Gleims Test series is the best for passing the written.  It is just a  better format for learning than Jepp and the others.   If you have  some extra change, I would do both and be sure to read Rod Machado's book  "Instrument Pilot Survival Guide".  He does the best job of anyone at  explaining some of the more complex issues and does it in a way that is really  fun to read.  Also try to have a flexible training schedule so that when  the weather turns bad, you can call your instructor and get some real IMC  time.  A couple of hours of real IMC is worth a 50 hours of "foggle  weather".

  

 The thing to remember is that the IMC ticket only gets you  to the point where you can legally get yourself in a big pile of trouble.   The real education comes later in the plane, in the weather, with a good  plan.

  

 It's fun.

  

 Good luck

 Bill S

 7a engine



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave  Leikam

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 9:15 AM

To:  matronics

Subject: IFR

 

 I just want to thank all the recent posts about  obtaining IFR before completing my 10.  I have about 150 hours and am going  to start training after the New Year.  I always thought I would do it in  the 10 after it was built, but I feel the comments I have read make good  sense.  I would like to know if anyone has used the Sporties DVD series and  if those kinds of programs are worth getting.  How about the IFR crash  courses?  Obviously safety and solid training are number one, but you sure  can spend alot of money on the rating.  I told my wife when she bought me  the tail kit, she had no idea what she started!  Somtimes I wish I had  fallen in love with needle-point.

  

 Dave Leikam

 40496

  

 do not archive

[quote]



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List



[b]

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:38 am Post subject: IFR

I cannot discuss this topic other than say that the  Sporty's DVD set was completely, IMHO, a waste of money.  I actually sent  them back.  Now, they may have changed them since I bought several years  ago, so they might be better.  Gleim got me through the private and  was boring but effective.  I've not seen the King material.  If you  can borrow a set, just to preview them, then go buy, that'd be one  route.    

  

 John Jessen

   #40328 - (back at it, finally, and trying to read  through over 400 emails on this list, some about taking  showers?)



  	  Quote: 	
		           From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave    Leikam

Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:15 AM

To:    matronics

Subject: IFR

   

   I just want to thank all the recent posts about    obtaining IFR before completing my 10.  I have about 150 hours and am    going to start training after the New Year.  I always thought I would do    it in the 10 after it was built, but I feel the comments I have read make good    sense.  I would like to know if anyone has used the Sporties DVD series    and if those kinds of programs are worth getting.  How about the IFR    crash courses?  Obviously safety and solid training are number one, but    you sure can spend alot of money on the rating.  I told my wife when she    bought me the tail kit, she had no idea what she started!  Somtimes I    wish I had fallen in love with needle-point.

    

   Dave Leikam

   40496

    

   do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  



href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com

href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List



	
-- No virus found in this  Edition.  Release Date:    12/17/2006 3:17 PM 	
 

  

--

 12/17/2006 3:17 PM

    [quote][b]

owl40188(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:50 am Post subject: IFR

Hi Dave,

  

 I am currently using the King/Cessna video course for my IFR training.  I do like their videos, however, I get sleepy shortly after I start watching them.  Maybe its because I usually watch them at the end of the day when I am tired.  The thing I like best about them is that each video lesson has a corresponding flying lesson with it.  So you watch the video and then go out with your instructor and fly.  They actually tell you exactly what you need to do while flying and have a form your instructor fills out after the flight to make sure you did what you were supposed to do.  I feel this way I am a lot more prepared for the lesson and tend to get more out of it.  I would highly recommend them.  By the way, this is the course material for the part 141 school.

  

 Niko

 40188

 ---

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: IFR

My experience with the Sporty's set (tapes) goes back 7 years or so but 

they weren't what I needed.  I did use the King set and they were good.  

Solid instruction the whole way thru.



John Jessen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I cannot discuss this topic other than say that the Sporty's DVD set 

 was completely, IMHO, a waste of money.  I actually sent them back.  

 Now, they may have changed them since I bought several years ago, so 

 they might be better.  Gleim got me through the private and was boring 

 but effective.  I've not seen the King material.  If you can borrow a 

 set, just to preview them, then go buy, that'd be one route.   

  

 John Jessen

   #40328 - (back at it, finally, and trying to read through over 400 

 emails on this list, some about taking showers?)



     ------------------------------------------------------------------------

     *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

     [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Dave

     Leikam

     *Sent:* Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:15 AM

     *To:* matronics

     *Subject:* IFR



     I just want to thank all the recent posts about obtaining IFR

     before completing my 10.  I have about 150 hours and am going to

     start training after the New Year.  I always thought I would do it

     in the 10 after it was built, but I feel the comments I have read

     make good sense.  I would like to know if anyone has used the

     Sporties DVD series and if those kinds of programs are worth

     getting.  How about the IFR crash courses?  Obviously safety and

     solid training are number one, but you sure can spend alot of

     money on the rating.  I told my wife when she bought me the tail

     kit, she had no idea what she started!  Somtimes I wish I had

     fallen in love with needle-point.

      

     Dave Leikam

     40496

      

     do not archive



     *



     href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com

     href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com

     href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com

     href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com

     href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List



     *



     -- No virus found in this Edition. Release Date: 12/17/2006 3:17 PM 

 --

 12/17/2006 3:17 PM



 *

 *

pilot4profit(at)sbcglobal
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: IFR

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Leikam

 Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 10:15 AM

 To: matronics

 Subject: IFR  

    

   

   

   

  How about the IFR crash courses?  

   

   

Ummm. No pun intended right????  

   

;-D  

CS  

   

   

    

Dave Leikam  

    

40496  

    

   

    

do not archive  

  [quote] [b]

DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: IFR

Yeah that sounds bad hey?  O.K., let's call an  IFR fast course.  Any comments?

  

 Dave Leikam

 40496

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:23 pm Post subject: IFR

You could call it a condensed IFR course. as in condensed water vapor.



On 12/18/06, Dave Leikam <DAVELEIKAM(at)wi.rr.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Yeah that sounds bad hey?  O.K., let's call an IFR fast course.  Any

 comments?



 Dave Leikam

 40496

 do not archive

KiloPapa

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Pearblossom, CA

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:13 am Post subject: IFR

What didn't you like about  Sporty's?

  

 Thanks,

  

 Kevin

40494

tail/empennage

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Kevin
40494

do not archive

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 8:26 am Post subject: IFR

Yes, sorry.  I should not say I don't like something  and not explain why.  

  

 I'm pretty sure that Sporty's moved their tape product over  to the DVD's just to get something out in that format.  So what you got was  not as much interactivity as it was straight monologue.  Also, at the time,  I was getting more information from reading IFR manuals, such as the Jeppesen  tome.  The Sporty's simply had a person talking to you, quickly, as if  reading from a book.  Very little, and I mean very little, explanation  about anything, none of the "gotchas" that you need to understand if you  don't follow the regs here or there.  Plus I didn't like the person doing  the talking.  The first DVD or CD-ROM, not sure what format, actually, it  came on, was Richard Collins, and that's what got me hooked.  It was an IFR  flight that he took the viewer on, explaining what happens and what you have to  do when an emergency situation makes everyone's plans go awry.  That was  interesting and gave me a sense of how, in actual IMC, one has to be able to  react.  The rest was not as informative.  I would have to  think that they have updated since then.  

  

 John Jessen

   #40328 (edge deburring everything is  sight)



 [quote]         From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of    KiloPapa

Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 12:12 AM

To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: RV10-List:    IFR

   

   What didn't you like about    Sporty's?

    

   Thanks,

    

   Kevin

40494

tail/empennage

    

   do not archive

   [quote]     ---

KiloPapa

Joined: 24 May 2006
Posts: 142
Location: Pearblossom, CA

Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: IFR

Thanks for the additional information.

  

 Kevin

40494

tail/empennage

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Kevin
40494

do not archive

jeff(at)westcottpress.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: IFR

I'd like to expand this thread a bit to get some feedback on what I'd  

call Modern IFR equipment and the resulting training that's  

appropriate for using it.



I've got about 250 hours, but haven't flown in over seven years.  In  

many ways, I'll be starting over as I prepare to fly my RV-10.   

Instrument navigation, for me, was never more than triangulating off  

of a couple of VORs and perhaps getting some useful information off  

of a DME if the plane I was renting was so equipped.



I plan to get back up to speed by getting my instrument rating.   

Starting over, I imagine that there are entire IFR systems I can do  

without... and not further clutter my head with "old fashioned"  

information.



To what extent can I equip my plane without those things, still have  

safe alternatives should the gps system fail and avoid spending time  

instrument training for systems I won't be using?



Jeff Carpenter

40304

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:37 pm Post subject: IFR

I think you should worry more at this point at getting the training,

and not so much as worry about what you can do without.  When it

comes down to it, even though there are things like the ADF that

you won't even care to put in a panel, the theories that you will

learn with many of the older instruments are the same.  The

"problem" with the new stuff is that if you have a moving map

GPS with an overhead view, that draws your approach for you, you

simply have it too easy if that's all you know how to use.

The sad truth of it is that when your GPS system dies, you need

to be able to fall back on some of the skills you'd use using

the "old" system, like VOR Navigation, and at that point, you probably

won't even have a DME in your plane because you're relying on

GPS to give you the equivalent.  The flying skills will not

vary much, but your entire survival then depends most on

how well you understand your old equipment, and how much old

equipment you allowed yourself in your panel.  Many people

will tell you not to bother with a CDI.  The catch is,

imagine when your EFIS is dead, how you're going to fly the

ILS into an airport.  It really all just means that you need

to understand fully the equipment needs for various modes of

flight esp. during failures, and you need to know how to

use said equipment. There really isn't much of anything

old or new that you can afford not to understand, other than

just a couple minor things.  I've been flying along on even

a VFR day in the middle of the US, navigating GPS direct

with a handheld.  When the signal goes out, as it can and

does in some areas at some times, you suddenly feel helpless

and realize that it's time to find yourself a VOR and fly

the airways....so you take that big step back in time.



It really is kind of hard for me to imagine someone just

getting an all glass panel, and then being able to adequately

function when you take away the glass.  Even with a few

minimal steam gauge backups, you just drastically increased

your workload and skills requirements.



So my advice is just dig in and start the instrument training,

and if possible, either do it behind an old panel, or maybe

more ideally, do 30 hours old and 10 hours glass.  That would

give you a great feel for what you need to do when planning

your own panel.   And, when you plan your panel, just imagine

what you will do when you lose each item...after you know

how the whole approach thing works.  It'll allow you to

put yourself in the position of "How can I get there and get

down now, without XXXX".



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Jeff Carpenter wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I'd like to expand this thread a bit to get some feedback on what I'd 

 call Modern IFR equipment and the resulting training that's appropriate 

 for using it.

 

 I've got about 250 hours, but haven't flown in over seven years.  In 

 many ways, I'll be starting over as I prepare to fly my RV-10.  

 Instrument navigation, for me, was never more than triangulating off of 

 a couple of VORs and perhaps getting some useful information off of a 

 DME if the plane I was renting was so equipped.

 

 I plan to get back up to speed by getting my instrument rating.  

 Starting over, I imagine that there are entire IFR systems I can do 

 without... and not further clutter my head with "old fashioned" 

 information.

 

 To what extent can I equip my plane without those things, still have 

 safe alternatives should the gps system fail and avoid spending time 

 instrument training for systems I won't be using?

 

 Jeff Carpenter

 40304

etekberg(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 1:49 pm Post subject: IFR

My 2 cents:

 Get a WAAS capable GPS/NAV/COM and have a backup NAV/COM.  If you get an audio panel you'll get a marker beacon receiver thrown in with it (although they are going the way of the dodo also).  A big FAA goal is the publishing of LPV approaches (WAAS equivalent to CAT 1 - when runway supports it).  They aren't a big deal at this moment in time, but they will be soon.  If GPS fails you'll have VOR/ILS (backup NAV/COM) for fallback. 

  

 Also you should have in-cockpit weather (Garmin 396 or 496 is the cheapest current method).

 Of course with one engine and no ice protection I wouldn't call it a hard IFR setup.

  

 Eric

 do not archive



 

 On 12/21/06, Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com (jeff(at)westcottpress.com)> wrote: [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com  (jeff(at)westcottpress.com)>



I'd like to expand this thread a bit to get some feedback on what I'd

call Modern IFR equipment and the resulting training that's

appropriate for using it.



I've got about 250 hours, but haven't flown in over seven years.  In 

many ways, I'll be starting over as I prepare to fly my RV-10.

Instrument navigation, for me, was never more than triangulating off

of a couple of VORs and perhaps getting some useful information off

of a DME if the plane I was renting was so equipped. 



I plan to get back up to speed by getting my instrument rating.

Starting over, I imagine that there are entire IFR systems I can do

without... and not further clutter my head with "old fashioned"

 information.



To what extent can I equip my plane without those things, still have

safe alternatives should the gps system fail and avoid spending time

instrument training for systems I won't be using?

  [quote][b]

CJohnston(at)popsound.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:00 pm Post subject: IFR

Hey Jeff - 



I'm with you about not cluttering your head with "non-useful" or

outdated instrument flight training, and to a certain extent trying to

train for the IFR environment that you'll be flying in - ie: super

modern GPS with LPV approaches and EFIS systems that talk to the NAV and

provide ILS needles on the display etc.  the reality is that you have to

know ALL of the stuff.  I'm talking ADF OBS CDI DME arcs - everything.

First of all, it's all going to be on the knowledge test (written), and

second of all, the aircraft you'll be training in (unless you finish

your build and train in your own aircraft) will most likely have a

couple nav/coms, CDI/OBS, maybe even an ADF, and a slightly older IFR

GPS like a KLN94 if it has one at all.  and if the aircraft has it,

you'll be expected to know how to navigate with it.  The rule as it was

explained to me is that for your checkride, you have to show proficiency

with all the installed equipment.  A friend of mine just got his IFR

ticket, and he didn't have to do any GPS approaches.  Why?  No IFR GPS

in the plane.  Also, to a certain extent, it helps to understand the

evolution of some of the equipment and know how to use it.  not sure

why.  



My approach to the whole IFR thing was basically that I will have to

re-learn IFR operations in my aircraft, because it will be so different

from how I trained.  I'll have to get used to the EFIS, and cockpit

resource management in general, then wrangle an instructor to do an IPC

with me, and see what areas I need help in.



cj

#40410

fuse

www.perfectlygoodairplane.net



--

apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:18 pm Post subject: IFR

I would disagree with that assessment. You will not get CAT I minimums

without ILS approach clearances, approach lighting and runway

lighting. Most runways that don't have ILS don't have the clear zones,

the approach lighting nor the runway lighting and markings. Most GPS

approaches are going to remain at non-precision minimums in the range

of 400-800 ft and 3/4 to 1 mile vis for a LONG time. Tim is right.

Learn the IFR system as it exists. Flying GPS only, will only diminish

your skills and ability to navigate when the GPS loses lock, system

crashes, loses power, etc. Fact is the ONLY backup to GPS today is the

conventional VOR/DME/ILS system, and that will continue for years into

the future.



On 12/21/06, Eric Ekberg <etekberg(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   My 2 cents:

 Get a WAAS capable GPS/NAV/COM and have a backup NAV/COM.  If you get an

 audio panel you'll get a marker beacon receiver thrown in with it (although

 they are going the way of the dodo also).  A big FAA goal is the publishing

 of LPV approaches (WAAS equivalent to CAT 1 - when runway supports it).

 They aren't a big deal at this moment in time, but they will be soon.  If

 GPS fails you'll have VOR/ILS (backup NAV/COM) for fallback.



 Also you should have in-cockpit weather (Garmin 396 or 496 is the cheapest

 current method).

 Of course with one engine and no ice protection I wouldn't call it a hard

 IFR setup.



 Eric

 do not archive

 On 12/21/06, Jeff Carpenter <jeff(at)westcottpress.com> wrote:

 > 

 >

 > I'd like to expand this thread a bit to get some feedback on what I'd

 > call Modern IFR equipment and the resulting training that's

 > appropriate for using it.

 >

 > I've got about 250 hours, but haven't flown in over seven years.  In

 > many ways, I'll be starting over as I prepare to fly my RV-10.

 > Instrument navigation, for me, was never more than triangulating off

 > of a couple of VORs and perhaps getting some useful information off

 > of a DME if the plane I was renting was so equipped.

 >

 > I plan to get back up to speed by getting my instrument rating.

 > Starting over, I imagine that there are entire IFR systems I can do

 > without... and not further clutter my head with "old fashioned"

 > information.

 >

 > To what extent can I equip my plane without those things, still have

 > safe alternatives should the gps system fail and avoid spending time

 > instrument training for systems I won't be using?

 >




	


 	  Quote: 	
		   -- Please Support Your Lists This Month --

 Gifts!)

 Contribution link below to find out more about

 Incentive Gifts provided

 * The Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com

 www.kitlog.com

 Contribution Web Site

 http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 your generous support!

 Admin.

 - The RV10-List Email Forum -

 to browse

 Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

 much more:

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List


	


 	  Quote: 	
		   >

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum