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Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables
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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:11 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

I got them from Vans.

TTP-125



http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1163430628-156-660&browse=airframe&product=one_eye

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Paul Grimstad wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Thanks Tim

 Where did you purchase the eyeballs and do you recall the hole size?

 Paul

 ---

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:15 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Aircraft Spruce. largest aluminum is about .25 and will have to be reamed. 

the smaller size hole in steel fits the alternate air cable for the fuel 

injection airbox. Haven't mounted the engine yet but the best format seems 

to be an inverted triangle using the two outboard holes enlarged to contain 

the center prepunched hole. alt air went into the pilot side top corner.

---

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

More food for thought on this, if you ever plan on flying formation,

Verniers are not allowed as they do not allow quick enough throttle

changes, you will have to use regular push pulls or the quadrant. This

was stated at the ground schools for the FFI.

I personally plan on formation with the Ohio Valley Rvators, so make the

best choice for the type of flying you plan on doing.

Dan

RV10E (N289DT) 



--

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:59 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

I may have no clue what I am talking about, but I think the throttle is a

standard Push-Pull in this sense, since there is no button you push to move

it and you can't screw-unscrew to tweak the setting.  The prop and mixture

are the Vernier Cables.  Again, I am talking in the context that you just

wrote, not in the technical meaning of Push-Pull versus Vernier.



Do not archive.



Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

W: 352-465-4545

C: 352-427-0285

--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

The reason I put it out there, is that several pilots came to the annual

FFI clinic and had vernier throttles, not just mixture and prop. The

ones that had this could not fly formation because they had the push

button to deal with. I was just posting the caveat for those that buy

the cables aftermarket because I have seen several RV's with vernier for

throttle.

Dan 



--

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Actually, and I'd like to fly formation, I'm confused about this myself.  I

want vernier, but aren't they technically push/pull?  I'm missing something

here, and, yeah, I know it's a brain, but....need some edification.  I did

look this up on the Van's site, and I have flown a C-182 a bunch with

Vernier controls, but I'm still confused given that if you have your hand on

the throttle knob, is it the pushing in of the little button that is the

no-no here?  



John Jessen

  #40328 



--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 10:31 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Correct, what they do not want is you have to push something to get free

movement of the throttle, when aircraft are this close together small

changes make big results. What they do not want to have happen is a

mid-air collision based on the fact you could not retard the throttle

quick enough because your thumb or palm slipped from the button. When I

have observed others flying in the wingman position, the throttle

changes are occurring on a continual basis, and a vernier would quickly

become a safety of flight issue.

Remember, Stu put together the course and the FFI certification program,

presented it to the FAA, and is putting his name on the line for the

safety of all of us and our ability to fly in waivered air space. We

need to follow those rules, and be as safe as possible. It is not to say

a vernier on the throttle, in regular flight is any less safe, just that

it is not to be used for formation flying. 

Dan

#40269  



--

apilot2(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:09 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

I guess there are some planes that a vernier throttle makes sense, but

for a long cross country machine that you want to operate as

efficiently as possible, after takeoff the only throttle use will be

for descent to landing...cruising at altitudes that power is either

controlled by rpm or mixture or both. I'm happiest with straight push

pull throttle and vernier mixture and vernier prop. I think the point

about verniers and formation flying is very valid. Wonder how the

Bonanza folks handle that issue for their OSH arrival. I know they

practice formation flying for that, but perhaps at greater spacing.

Seems like they are one of the more common vernier throttle equipped

birds.



On 11/13/06, Lloyd, Daniel R. <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> wrote:

[quote] 



 Correct, what they do not want is you have to push something to get free

 movement of the throttle, when aircraft are this close together small

 changes make big results. What they do not want to have happen is a

 mid-air collision based on the fact you could not retard the throttle

 quick enough because your thumb or palm slipped from the button. When I

 have observed others flying in the wingman position, the throttle

 changes are occurring on a continual basis, and a vernier would quickly

 become a safety of flight issue.

 Remember, Stu put together the course and the FFI certification program,

 presented it to the FAA, and is putting his name on the line for the

 safety of all of us and our ability to fly in waivered air space. We

 need to follow those rules, and be as safe as possible. It is not to say

 a vernier on the throttle, in regular flight is any less safe, just that

 it is not to be used for formation flying.

 Dan

 #40269



 --

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 11:11 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

So if one has a non-verniered throttle that is push/pull, that would be

okay?  And for those with quadrants, is there the Cherokee style (usually

non-effective or non-working for rentals at least) friction knob to make the

levers not move, or have they upgraded the design?  I looked at the picture

on Van's and was not seeing the friction knob.  



John Jessen

  #40328 



Do not archive



 



--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Correct, if there is a friction lock it needs to be all the way loose

during formation flight. The ones who can explain this better are Stu

McCurdy, or Mike Stewart. They run the clinics and can answer the

questions better than I. I would also recommend you goto a clinic, as

they are great fun and can teach you allot, even if you do not choose to

fly formation, it is a great way to spend a weekend with fellow RV

flyers!

Dan

N289DT 



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:14 pm Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

I wanted to thank everyone for the spirited discussion and fresh

perspectives on my thread I started on Quadrant vs. Vernier.  



It all helps as we watch homes floating away here in the soggy Pacific

NW - home of VANS.



John Cox

#40600

jjessen

Joined: 22 Apr 2006
Posts: 285
Location: OR

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:44 pm Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Dan, thanks.  I absolutely look forward to attending one of the formation

clinics.  And thanks for the advice.  Good to know before hand.  



John Jessen



Do not archive 



--

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Well, not entirely true.  Formation pilots with vernier throttles use a clip to hold the button in ..... disabling the vernier function.

 Linn

 

 Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

 [quote]   [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> (LloydDR(at)wernerco.com)  More food for thought on this, if you ever plan on flying formation, Verniers are not allowed as they do not allow quick enough throttle changes, you will have to use regular push pulls or the quadrant. This was stated at the ground schools for the FFI. I personally plan on formation with the Ohio Valley Rvators, so make the best choice for the type of flying you plan on doing. Dan RV10E (N289DT)   --

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 1:51 pm Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Unless they have changed their thoughts since April, Mike  and Stu will not let you do it, period. What pilots do on their own is their  choice, but when flying formation it affects all in the flight. If that clip  falls off when you are least expecting it there will be big  problems.

 Like I said before,Stu runs the program and he should be  the one to talk to on this, I am still just a builder, and formation pilot wanna  be.

 Dan

 N289DT 



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn  Walters

Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:03 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Quadrant vs. Vernier  Cables

 

Well, not entirely true.  Formation pilots with vernier  throttles use a clip to hold the button in ..... disabling the vernier  function.

Linn



Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

 [quote][quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> (LloydDR(at)wernerco.com)  More food for thought on this, if you ever plan on flying formation, Verniers are not allowed as they do not allow quick enough throttle changes, you will have to use regular push pulls or the quadrant. This was stated at the ground schools for the FFI. I personally plan on formation with the Ohio Valley Rvators, so make the best choice for the type of flying you plan on doing. Dan RV10E (N289DT)   --

pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Good point.  I've met them and attended their ground school.  Safety is their primary concern .... as it should be.  As I don't have an RV in which to fly formation, that issue hasn't come up before.  There are other formation clinics for other aircraft types, and that comment came from one of those groups.  Hopefully someone will get a position statement from Mike or Stu before they choose what may be the wrong path.

 Linn ...... wanna be too!

 

 

 Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

 [quote]                   Unless they have changed their thoughts since April, Mike  and Stu will not let you do it, period. What pilots do on their own is their  choice, but when flying formation it affects all in the flight. If that clip  falls off when you are least expecting it there will be big  problems.

     Like I said before,Stu runs the program and he should be  the one to talk to on this, I am still just a builder, and formation pilot wanna  be.

     Dan

     N289DT 

   

          From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of linn  Walters

   Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:03 PM

   To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

   Subject: Re: Quadrant vs. Vernier  Cables

   

   

  Well, not entirely true.  Formation pilots with vernier  throttles use a clip to hold the button in ..... disabling the vernier  function.

 Linn

   

 Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

     [quote]     [quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> (LloydDR(at)wernerco.com)  More food for thought on this, if you ever plan on flying formation, Verniers are not allowed as they do not allow quick enough throttle changes, you will have to use regular push pulls or the quadrant. This was stated at the ground schools for the FFI. I personally plan on formation with the Ohio Valley Rvators, so make the best choice for the type of flying you plan on doing. Dan RV10E (N289DT)   --

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

Sounds like a good use of duct tape here. Hehe.   Sorry, I'm getting punchy.  Finally going to get my project up  here from Texas next week.  Going through some serious building  withdrawal.

  

 Michael

 do not archive



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn  Walters

Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 3:03 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Quadrant vs. Vernier  Cables

 

Well, not entirely true.  Formation pilots with vernier  throttles use a clip to hold the button in ..... disabling the vernier  function.

Linn



Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

 [quote][quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> (LloydDR(at)wernerco.com)  More food for thought on this, if you ever plan on flying formation, Verniers are not allowed as they do not allow quick enough throttle changes, you will have to use regular push pulls or the quadrant. This was stated at the ground schools for the FFI. I personally plan on formation with the Ohio Valley Rvators, so make the best choice for the type of flying you plan on doing. Dan RV10E (N289DT)   --

sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 8:24 am Post subject: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables

I’m just catching up on some e-mails on the list but thought I would add one more comment in relation to the quadrant.   

One thing that I recently realized that I like is how quickly you can look at it and determine settings. The quadrant is very visual.  It is easy to scan during startup and landing to see if it is set up how you would like it.   

With Vernier’s you really never know how far out the throttle is.  How many times do you check to see if you are ¼” forward during priming and startup with a Vernier system?   Plus it is really nice having the throttle a totally different shape so in emergencies or a quick go around it is easy to see and advance.   

And I have no problem dialing in any egt setting I want.  I was sold on Vernier’s and really doubted my decision early on but have been very happy with the quadrant.   

     

Scott  Schmidt  

sschmidt(at)ussynthetic.com  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 3:36 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables  

  

   

Sounds like a good use of duct tape here. Hehe.  Sorry, I'm getting punchy.  Finally going to get my project up here from Texas next week.  Going through some serious building withdrawal.  

   

Michael  

do not archive  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters

 Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 3:03 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Quadrant vs. Vernier Cables  

Well, not entirely true.  Formation pilots with vernier throttles use a clip to hold the button in ..... disabling the vernier function.

 Linn

 

 Lloyd, Daniel R. wrote:

 

    	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com> More food for thought on this, if you ever plan on flying formation,Verniers are not allowed as they do not allow quick enough throttlechanges, you will have to use regular push pulls or the quadrant. Thiswas stated at the ground schools for the FFI.I personally plan on formation with the Ohio Valley Rvators, so make thebest choice for the type of flying you plan on doing.DanRV10E (N289DT)  	
0[quote]--

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