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Seamus

Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Arkansas

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: Need new Prop

Hello All,



I have recently purchased a 2003 Kolb Mark III with a Rotax 582, B gearbox 

with 2,58 gear ratio Minus a prop.  Needles to say I'm in the market for a 

new one.  I researched some and have narrowed my selection down to the IVO 

66" 3 blade prop.  However,  \I would like any wisdom anyone would share on 

the subject.



Thank You for your time,



Shay Jones



_________________________________________________________________

Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now!  

http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG

_________________
Seamus R. Jones

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Need new Prop

I've noticed most guys "lean" towards a bigger dia. with the IVO props.



  I have a 503 w/ 68" IVO ( Firestar II )



   Guys...?



Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 3:39 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

I imagine that you could buy a 72" Ivo for about the same price as a 66"

Why not get the longer blades and cut them down to suit you.  I

originally purchased a 72" 3-blade and now I am at 70" dia.  It is doing

so good that I may not go to a smaller dia.  Just a thought.

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

Well, there's a Warp Drive prop somewhere West of Chowchilla, CA...  I think it ended up in a corn field...  Prop shaft (belt drive) broke forward of the hub and the hub and prop departed my 503 Firestar at about 1000' taking the right aileron spar/torque tube with it...  I landed in a disced field and thanx to my big tires, no landing damage...  Second no power emergency landing in the first  11.6 hours I've put on the Firestar...  Prior to that, I had no dead stick landings in over 4600 GA hours...  I really like the concept and the way the Firestar flies, but I'll probably go back to a store bought plane...

   

 David

  

 



 

 On 9/2/06, planecrazzzy <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "planecrazzzy" <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com  (planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com)>



I've noticed most guys "lean" towards a bigger dia.



I have a 503 w/ 68" IVO ( Firestar II )



  Guys...?



Gotta Fly...

Mike in MN



--------

.

.

.

.

 .

Do Not Archive





	


-- 

ô¿ô  "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"...   [quote][b]

_________________
Ã´Â¿Ã´

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

APilot(at)webtv.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 8:38 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

Question:  Were you using a two blade or a three blade?   I have been

warned about using a two blade on mine.

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1670
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Sep 02, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

Go with an Ivo 2 blade, 68", and you will have a good prop and a smooth 

flight, and good performance. That is the combination I am using on 

mine. After trying several Warp Drive, Ivo and Kiev Hot Prop options, an 

Ivo 2 blade 68" prop gives the best overall compromise between a great 

climb and a great cruise for a MKIII with a 582 with a B box, 2.58:1 

ratio. Be sure you get the hub extension. And you may need to make up 

some motor mount extensions to raise your engine about an inch higher to 

get sufficient clearance between the prop and the main tube.

If you get the Ivo 66" three blade, you will get more acceleration from 

a standing start, (it will be awesome out of the hole) but I will pretty 

much match you on climb, and outrun you top end. And at cruise, I will 

be about three or four hundred RPM less than you for a given airspeed. 

You don't want that. You want an engine that runs at less than 75% power 

at cruise, which is 5600 rpm or less, and you won't get that with what 

you are currently planning.  Guess how I know this? (Been there, done 

that, the T-shirt is in the rag box...)



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



Seamus Jones wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <seamusrjones(at)hotmail.com>



 Hello All,



 I have recently purchased a 2003 Kolb Mark III with a Rotax 582, B 

 gearbox with 2,58 gear ratio Minus a prop.  Needles to say I'm in the 

 market for a new one.  I researched some and have narrowed my 

 selection down to the IVO 66" 3 blade prop.  However,  \I would like 

 any wisdom anyone would share on the subject.



 Thank You for your time,



 Shay Jones



 _________________________________________________________________

 Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now!  

 http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:15 am Post subject: Need new Prop

Shay, You might want to consider doing a couple of things before deciding on a prop. 

First, confirm that your "B" box is indeed a 2.58. Someone could have changed the ratio in the field and not restamped the box. Because of the damper in the "B", this is pretty simple. Pull a plug from each cylinder, find top dead center, you can use your thumb to tell when you have compression, then pull the engine thru counting the compressions you feel with your thumb. No, it won't get you fine detail, but you'll know real quick if you're in the 2 or 3 part of the ratio. 

Second, get yourself a copy of the California Power Systems catalog and read the articles on choosing a prop. Then read the articles on gearboxes. What you'll see is that the "B" box is marginal on a 582, it is only rated for 66 HP, and it is rated for only half the rotational mass of the "C" and "E" boxes.  

So what should you be looking for in props? In a word, light. While an adjustable prop might get you something to futz with, I'm going to guess that as a new owner you probably want to fly ASAP. A good wood prop is the lightest you can get, it's the easiest to balance, and the easiest to maintain. Call Travis or Donnie at the factory and get their input, too. Tennessee Propellor makes nice wood props, ask them what they recommend. Ask them if they have a return policy if they get the pitch wrong, or better yet, do they have a known good for a 582 prop that you can use to take a read on your particular setup. 

Whatever you decide, when you get your new prop check it for balance, follow the manufacturers installation and prop bolt torque recommendation and RETORQUE schedule. Check the blade tip tracking after installation and after each retorque, it should be .06" (1/16") or less. 

As the new owner, you have a lot of unknowns facing you. While you're waiting on the prop, pull the exhaust system and look in the ports to check for general engine condition. While the exhaust is in your hands give it a good shake to see if it's about to blow chunks through your new prop. Borrow a dial indicator and check the prop flange for runout at the prop mounting surface, it should be .003" or less. You say your Mk III is a 2003. Check the engine serial number and check when it was manufactured and whether it is a -90 or -99 engine (don't be fooled by a blue head, spray paint is cheap and at least one 582 has shown up on eBay recently with a spray can upgrade). After you get your new prop mounted, do a weight and balance check, the method is right in the plans and it's easy to do. 



Rick

On 9/3/06, Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)> wrote:[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org (richard(at)bcchapel.org)>



Go with an Ivo 2 blade, 68", and you will have a good prop and a smooth

flight, and good performance. That is the combination I am using on 

mine. After trying several Warp Drive, Ivo and Kiev Hot Prop options, an

Ivo 2 blade 68" prop gives the best overall compromise between a great

climb and a great cruise for a MKIII with a 582 with a B box,  2.58:1

ratio. Be sure you get the hub extension. And you may need to make up

some motor mount extensions to raise your engine about an inch higher to

get sufficient clearance between the prop and the main tube.

 If you get the Ivo 66" three blade, you will get more acceleration from

a standing start, (it will be awesome out of the hole) but I will pretty

much match you on climb, and outrun you top end. And at cruise, I will 

be about three or four hundred RPM less than you for a given airspeed.

You don't want that. You want an engine that runs at less than 75% power

at cruise, which is 5600 rpm or less, and you won't get that with what 

you are currently planning.  Guess how I know this? (Been there, done

that, the T-shirt is in the rag box...)



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



Seamus Jones wrote:

[quote] --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Seamus Jones" 

 <seamusrjones(at)hotmail.com (seamusrjones(at)hotmail.com)>



 Hello All,



 I have recently purchased a 2003 Kolb Mark III with a Rotax 582, B

 gearbox with 2,58 gear ratio Minus a prop.  Needles to say I'm in the 

 market for a new one.  I researched some and have narrowed my

 selection down to the IVO 66" 3 blade prop.  However,  \I would like

 any wisdom anyone would share on the subject.



 Thank You for your time, 



 Shay Jones



 _________________________________________________________________

 Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now!

  

when you live at the airport.   	  Quote: 	
		  [b]

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:26 am Post subject: Need new Prop

Two blade...  And remember this is a belt drive, not a gearbox...

  

 DVD

 



 

 On 9/2/06, APilot(at)webtv.net (APilot(at)webtv.net) <APilot(at)webtv.net (APilot(at)webtv.net)> wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: APilot(at)webtv.net (APilot(at)webtv.net)



Question:  Were you using a two blade or a three blade?   I have been s Navigator to browse ronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">  content now also available via the Web Forums! sp;            mail List Wiki! sp;           - List Cont!             &nb======================== 



	


-- 

ô¿ô  "Attitude is everything ~ pick a good one"...   [quote][b]

_________________
Ã´Â¿Ã´

"Both optimists and pessimists contribute to the society. The optimist invents the aeroplane, the pessimist the parachute."

--- George Bernard Shaw

jsflan(at)valornet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:20 am Post subject: Need new Prop

David,

  

 Glad you survived that one. It ain't exclusive to the UL-ies though. 

  

 Had a friend drop off a passenger from a river trip in Utah at McCarran.  Climbed back in the Cessna 206, fired  it up and a blade went sailing.  Said it was like riding a horizontal eggbeater until he  shut it down in a  hurry.

  

 Contending with all-day rain here in the desertland of NM. So am home  computer hangar flying. Do folks fly Kolbs in the rain? Thinking of taxiing mine  just to wash off the wings.

 jsf

 do not archive

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Mike Schnabel

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Manchester, TN

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:15 am Post subject: Need new Prop

John,

   

  Any time in a Kolb is a good time. Even washing the wings in the rain... gee, that actually sounds like fun!

   

  But be warned... don’t play with your Kolb in strong winds! I did last Sunday, after a really cool flight with Steve G in his Mk III on Saturday, I left my Firestar out, tied down overnight. Sunday came a blistering windy day... so I moved her to the trailer... but not before I was knocked over by a gust, raked my shin against the ramp door in my haste, now its swollen, infected, and lordy I hope the doc does not want to amputate!

   

  But then again, if that’s the price I have to pay for some Kolb fun, it was worth every penny!

   

  Mike S

  Manchester TN

  Firestar 2 503

   

  do not archive

  

"john s. flannery" <jsflan(at)valornet.com> wrote:

          David,

   

  Glad you survived that one. It ain't exclusive to the UL-ies though. 

   

  Had a friend drop off a passenger from a river trip in Utah at McCarran. Climbed back in the Cessna 206, fired  it up and a blade went sailing. Said it was like riding a horizontal eggbeater until he  shut it down in a hurry.

   

  Contending with all-day rain here in the desertland of NM. So am home computer hangar flying. Do folks fly Kolbs in the rain? Thinking of taxiing mine just to wash off the wings.

  jsf

  do not archive

    ---

jsflan(at)valornet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:36 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

Mike

  

 I am nursing jammed or broken big toe following multiple gout sessions.  Soaks in Epsom's Salt may help. Don't know where you are but friends swear by  soaks in creosote/chaparral/greasewood, whatever you ant to call it tea for  infections. Abundant here in he desert. Good luck

  

 The rain worked well on the red beast, followed by a toweling  after  pushback into hangar and rain is still coming down. First day we have had  density altitude under 6,000 feet.

 jsf

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

Ed in JXN

Joined: 24 Mar 2006
Posts: 122

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

Hi David,

  

         Which belt  redrive was it?  I'd suspect the redrive, and switch to the proper  gearbox.  Haven't heard of any GB's letting the prop depart the  aircraft.

  

 Ed in JXN

 MkII/503

  

  

 [quote]   ---

Seamus

Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 3
Location: Arkansas

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

Thanks for alll the insight on my prop purchase...........I bought this Mark 

III (Miss B) from Bob Brocious in Kentucky who not only sold me a great 

plane but threw in some sound advice for free, this Kolb-list being one of 

them.  Thanks again for the responses and thanks in advance for future 

responses I will have as a new rookie Kolb owner.



Shay J.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: Richard Pike <richard(at)bcchapel.org>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Need new Prop

Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 01:57:45 -0400






Go with an Ivo 2 blade, 68", and you will have a good prop and a smooth 

flight, and good performance. That is the combination I am using on mine. 

After trying several Warp Drive, Ivo and Kiev Hot Prop options, an Ivo 2 

blade 68" prop gives the best overall compromise between a great climb and 

a great cruise for a MKIII with a 582 with a B box, 2.58:1 ratio. Be sure 

you get the hub extension. And you may need to make up some motor mount 

extensions to raise your engine about an inch higher to get sufficient 

clearance between the prop and the main tube.

If you get the Ivo 66" three blade, you will get more acceleration from a 

standing start, (it will be awesome out of the hole) but I will pretty much 

match you on climb, and outrun you top end. And at cruise, I will be about 

three or four hundred RPM less than you for a given airspeed. You don't 

want that. You want an engine that runs at less than 75% power at cruise, 

which is 5600 rpm or less, and you won't get that with what you are 

currently planning.  Guess how I know this? (Been there, done that, the 

T-shirt is in the rag box...)



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



Seamus Jones wrote:

>

>

>Hello All,

>

>I have recently purchased a 2003 Kolb Mark III with a Rotax 582, B gearbox 

>with 2,58 gear ratio Minus a prop.  Needles to say I'm in the market for a 

>new one.  I researched some and have narrowed my selection down to the IVO 

>66" 3 blade prop.  However,  \I would like any wisdom anyone would share 

>on the subject.

>

>Thank You for your time,

>

>Shay Jones

>

>_________________________________________________________________

>Check the weather nationwide with MSN Search: Try it now!  

>http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=weather&FORM=WLMTAG






	


_________________________________________________________________

_________________
Seamus R. Jones

jsflan(at)valornet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:43 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

Ya dub gud. Would love to have BB's beautiful bird.



jsf



do not archive

---

Possum

Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Posts: 112
Location: Georgia

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

At 12:01 AM 9/3/2006, you wrote:

 >Well, there's a Warp Drive prop somewhere West of Chowchilla, 

 >CA...  I think it ended up in a corn field...  Prop shaft (belt 

 >drive) broke forward of the hub and the hub and prop departed my 503 

 >Firestar at about 1000' taking the right aileron spar/torque tube with it...

 

 Never seen a 503 Firestar with a "belt drive" - what's it look like?

 Who's idea was that?

 

 But, then again, I don't get out much.

 

 

 

    [quote][b]

gtb(at)commspeed.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:27 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

JSF;

  

 How long have you waited to actually use the  term,

 "pushback" in a sentence concerning the  operation

 of an ultralight.

  

 P.S.;   LMAO

  

 George

  

 DO NOT ARCHIVE

  

   [quote][b]

jsflan(at)valornet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:41 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

All  day...                   

  

 Actually since I bought the Kolb tailwheel with the detente after other  poorly designed not-Kolb tailwheel broke.

  

 PS      CIAO

 jsf

  

 do not archive

 [quote]   ---

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:49 pm Post subject: Need new Prop

 	  Quote: 	
		  



  Never seen a 503 Firestar with a "belt drive" - what's it look like?

  Who's idea was that?



  But, then again, I don't get out much.



Apparently they got supplied with Challenger kits at one time.
	


Hegar drives.



http://www.adventureaviation.org/CH_For_Sale.html

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 <uC.gif>

capedavis(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:05 am Post subject: Need new Prop

Shay, Glad to hear that Bob sold his ,plane I made a deal and made a down payment and was ready n to pick it up when I was in a terrible crash with Norm at TNK . He  gave my wife the check back after the crash . Its a besutiful aircraft  and I hope you enjoy it ;Fair wind  Chris Davis

Seamus Jones <seamusrjones(at)hotmail.com> wrote:  [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Seamus Jones" 

Thanks for alll the insight on my prop purchase...........I bought this Mark 

III (Miss B) from Bob Brocious in Kentucky who not only sold me a great 

plane but threw in some sound advice for free, this Kolb-list being one of 

them. Thanks again for the responses and thanks in advance for future 

responses I will have as a new rookie Kolb owner.

Shay J.

[quote]From: Richard Pike  

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Need new Prop

Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2006 01:57:45 -0400

--> Kolb-List message posted by: Richard Pike 

Go with an Ivo 2 blade, 68", and you will have a good prop and a smooth 

flight, and good performance. That is the combination I am using on mine. 

After trying several Warp Drive, Ivo and Kiev Hot Prop options, an Ivo 2 

blade 68" prop gives the best overall compromise between a great climb and 

a great cruise for a MKIII with a 582 with a B box, 2.58:1 ratio. Be sure 

you get the hub extension. And you may need to make up some motor mount 

extensions to raise your engine about an inch higher to get sufficient 

clearance between the prop and the main tube.

If you get the Ivo 66" three blade, you will get more acceleration from a  

standing start, (it will be awesome out of the hole) but I will pretty much 

match you on climb, and outrun you top end. And at cruise, I will be about 

three or four hundred RPM less than you for a given airspeed. You don't 

want that. You want an engine that runs at less than 75% power at cruise, 

which is 5600 rpm or less, and you won't get that with what you are 

currently planning. Guess how I know this? (Been there, done that, the 

T-shirt is in the rag box...)

Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)

Seamus Jones wrote:

>--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Seamus Jones" 

>

>Hello All,

>

>I have recently purchased a 2003 Kolb Mark III with a Rotax 582, B gearbox 

>with 2,58 gear ratio Minus a prop. Needles to say I'm in the market for a 

>new one. I researched some and have narrowed my 		How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low  PC-to-Phone call rates. [quote][b]

David.Lehman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 265
Location: "Lovely" Fresno CA

Posted: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:17 am Post subject: Re: Need new Prop

[quote="Ed in JXN"]Hi David,

  

         Which belt  redrive was it?  I'd suspect the redrive, and switch to the proper  gearbox.  Haven't heard of any GB's letting the prop depart the  aircraft.

  

 Ed in JXN

 MkII/503

  

  

  	  Quote: 	
		     --- 	




Hi Ed...

 

I don't know the manufacturer of the belt drive...

 

I think this Kolb is/was an excellent example of "you get what you pay for"...

 

If it ever flies again, it will be with a gearbox, or direct drive, no more belt drives for me...

 

DVD

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