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Small battery choice
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:54 am Post subject: Small battery choice

 	  Quote: 	
		  I think you meant batteryuniversity.com Bob.

 	
   Correct. Thanks!



 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

AdventureD

Joined: 13 Jan 2021
Posts: 16

Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 6:41 pm Post subject: Re: Small battery choice

Here's what I'm doing.  I'm buying two Power-sonics.  They're so cheap that if they don't work well, it's water under the bridge.  I can use them in my motorcycle!



I'll report back on the results.  Hopefully first start will occur in the next two months.  Cant wait.



Thanks again.

Dan

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:35 am Post subject: Small battery choice

At 08:41 PM 1/24/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AdventureD" <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com>



 Here's what I'm doing.  I'm buying two Power-sonics.  They're so cheap that if they don't work well, it's water under the bridge.  I can use them in my motorcycle!



 I'll report back on the results.  Hopefully first start will occur in the next two months.  Cant wait.

 	


   Looking forward to your experience and

   observations . . .



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

AdventureD

Joined: 13 Jan 2021
Posts: 16

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Small battery choice

This is a three year old response, but... I have so much respect for the help Bob's resources have provided, I feel compelled to respond.



I have a Z-14 (rear batteries) install in an Lancair ES.  It has been GREAT.



I finished in March 2022.  I put in two powersonics.  During the testing phase, after only like 30 hours, they weren't cranking my high compression IO550 like they should.  I decided based on various recommendations to upgrade to two Odyssey pc680s, which are much more expensive.  I got better cranking.



One of the pc680s died after two years, and now the second one has died after 2 1/2 years (meaning I'm not getting the cranking I need).  I'm now thinking of trying the MightyMax, which is < 1/3 the cost of the pc680, and if they crank OK, I'm certainly happy to replace one each year.



Nothing personal against Odyssey, but the Lancair folks that helped me finish in 2022 said that Odysseys were great in the 2010s but seemed to fall off during Covid.  Are my 2 and 2 1/2 years indicative of that, or are they about normal?  They're a rather expensive little battery, so if they have actually fallen off, the one year change out of cheaper batteries makes more sense, at least if they crank adequately during their life.



Cheers,

Happy Z14 Lanciar owner.

AdventureD

Joined: 13 Jan 2021
Posts: 16

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Small battery choice

I should mention that my Odyssey 680s had 300 and 400 hours on them when they failed, which was probably like 150 and 200 starts.  Is that about how long they last? Should they last longer?  Did I get reasonable life out of them?

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2024 11:38 pm Post subject: Small battery choice

I think the obsession with small batteries creates much more aggravation than benefits. I can understand the importance of weight saving in small aircraft.

Your stock Concorde or equivalent typically lasts many years despite abuse. 





On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 07:36, AdventureD <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AdventureD" <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>

 

 I should mention that my Odyssey 680s had 300 and 400 hours on them when they failed, which was probably like 150 and 200 starts.  Is that about how long they last? Should they last longer?  Did I get reasonable life out of them?

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513823#513823

 

 

 

 

 

 

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-- 

Best Regards,Bob Verwey



082 331 2727

[img]https://docs.google.com/uc?export=download&id=0B5d7rgAInTuTUUZsUjY4QmJsdVU&revid=0B5d7rgAInTuTdDJDaXRFZVh3b3lMa3FWL0s3MFdzc01YRlNvPQ[/img]

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2024 5:06 am Post subject: Small battery choice

Over the 8 years I have had my RV-10 I hav e used 2 Odyssey       925's, and am still on the 2nd one.

          On 9/13/2024 12:37 AM, Bob Verwey       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         I think the           obsession with small batteries creates much more aggravation           than benefits. I can understand the importance of weight           saving in small aircraft.

         Your stock           Concorde or equivalent typically lasts many years despite           abuse. 

         

         

       

       

                On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 07:36,           AdventureD <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>           wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		  -->           AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AdventureD" <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>

           

           I should mention that my Odyssey 680s had 300 and 400 hours on           them when they failed, which was probably like 150 and 200           starts.  Is that about how long they last? Should they last           longer?  Did I get reasonable life out of them?

           

           

           

           

           Read this topic online here:

           

           http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513823#513823

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2024 11:55 am Post subject: Small battery choice

Odyssey batteries seem to take a fair amount of abuse if they are used regularly. I had an aerobatic aircraft that had a PC-680 and an SD-8 and flew many short trips. The battery can hardly ever have been fully charged. Didn't seem to matter. If we left it over the winter with little use, even if it was charged occasionally, it would become unhappy (run out of charge quickly) soon after we started flying again. If it was taken out over the winter and put on a tender it lasted for a few years. Sorry, can't remember the specifics. 

On Fri, 13 Sept 2024, 14:14 Kelly McMullen, <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		                      

Over the 8 years I have had my RV-10 I hav e used 2 Odyssey       925's, and am still on the 2nd one.

          On 9/13/2024 12:37 AM, Bob Verwey       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         I think the           obsession with small batteries creates much more aggravation           than benefits. I can understand the importance of weight           saving in small aircraft.

         Your stock           Concorde or equivalent typically lasts many years despite           abuse. 

         

         

       

       

                On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 07:36,           AdventureD <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>           wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		  -->           AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AdventureD" <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>

           

           I should mention that my Odyssey 680s had 300 and 400 hours on           them when they failed, which was probably like 150 and 200           starts.  Is that about how long they last? Should they last           longer?  Did I get reasonable life out of them?

           

           

           

           

           Read this topic online here:

           

           http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513823#513823

Ceengland

Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 386
Location: MS

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2024 1:03 pm Post subject: Small battery choice

Unless the start was a really difficult one, it pulls very little total energy from the battery, and it will get topped up fairly quickly by a 40-60 amp alternator.

RE Odyssey, I've been using AGMs in aircraft for over 20 years, and I've never bought an Odyssey. I've always shopped ebay/Amazon for the best price on 20-22AH AGMs at the moment, and with a single undiscovered shipping damaged copy, I've gotten 3-5 years service from them. I never use maintainers, but if the plane has been sitting for several *months*, I might 'top it up' with a short charge session (though I've also found that it's rarely if ever necessary). Only time I've had shorter life was when I've accidentally abused one by leaving the Master on. If there are no 'vampire' loads sucking on the battery while the plane is sitting, an AGM is usually at 80% charge after sitting for 6-12 months, according to Odyssey's own technical docs (which remain excellent, whether their batteries are still up to snuff or not).

The only caution I'd offer about the generic AGMs is to try to find the battery's internal impedance in the specs. If it's above around 10 milliohms, it's probably not the best choice for a starting battery; it was probably designed for UPS duty rather than a vehicle. Having said that, I've found that the 20-22AH versions, as long as they have fairly substantial looking posts, they'll work just fine for starting a Lyc.

FWIW, YMMV, etc

Charlie

Virus-free.www.avast.com[url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]



On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 2:58 PM Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com (peter(at)sportingaero.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Odyssey batteries seem to take a fair amount of abuse if they are used regularly. I had an aerobatic aircraft that had a PC-680 and an SD-8 and flew many short trips. The battery can hardly ever have been fully charged. Didn't seem to matter. If we left it over the winter with little use, even if it was charged occasionally, it would become unhappy (run out of charge quickly) soon after we started flying again. If it was taken out over the winter and put on a tender it lasted for a few years. Sorry, can't remember the specifics. 

On Fri, 13 Sept 2024, 14:14 Kelly McMullen, <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		                      

Over the 8 years I have had my RV-10 I hav e used 2 Odyssey       925's, and am still on the 2nd one.

          On 9/13/2024 12:37 AM, Bob Verwey       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         I think the           obsession with small batteries creates much more aggravation           than benefits. I can understand the importance of weight           saving in small aircraft.

         Your stock           Concorde or equivalent typically lasts many years despite           abuse. 

         

         

       

       

                On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 07:36,           AdventureD <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>           wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		  -->           AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AdventureD" <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>

           

           I should mention that my Odyssey 680s had 300 and 400 hours on           them when they failed, which was probably like 150 and 200           starts.  Is that about how long they last? Should they last           longer?  Did I get reasonable life out of them?

           

           

           

           

           Read this topic online here:

           

           http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513823#513823

_________________
Charlie

edwclg

Joined: 30 Dec 2007
Posts: 19

Posted: Sat Sep 14, 2024 8:47 am Post subject: Small battery choice

I have had two PC 680's since certification (RV  in 2008. The first was removed after 7 years because I just thought it time the second is still doing a great job.Ed Clegg

On Fri, Sep 13, 2024 at 3:58 PM Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com (peter(at)sportingaero.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

Odyssey batteries seem to take a fair amount of abuse if they are used regularly. I had an aerobatic aircraft that had a PC-680 and an SD-8 and flew many short trips. The battery can hardly ever have been fully charged. Didn't seem to matter. If we left it over the winter with little use, even if it was charged occasionally, it would become unhappy (run out of charge quickly) soon after we started flying again. If it was taken out over the winter and put on a tender it lasted for a few years. Sorry, can't remember the specifics. 

On Fri, 13 Sept 2024, 14:14 Kelly McMullen, <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		                      

Over the 8 years I have had my RV-10 I hav e used 2 Odyssey       925's, and am still on the 2nd one.

          On 9/13/2024 12:37 AM, Bob Verwey       wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         I think the           obsession with small batteries creates much more aggravation           than benefits. I can understand the importance of weight           saving in small aircraft.

         Your stock           Concorde or equivalent typically lasts many years despite           abuse. 

         

         

       

       

                On Fri, 13 Sept 2024 at 07:36,           AdventureD <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>           wrote:

         

          	  Quote: 	
		  -->           AeroElectric-List message posted by: "AdventureD" <dobrien(at)microfoundations.com (dobrien(at)microfoundations.com)>

           

           I should mention that my Odyssey 680s had 300 and 400 hours on           them when they failed, which was probably like 150 and 200           starts.  Is that about how long they last? Should they last           longer?  Did I get reasonable life out of them?

           

           

           

           

           Read this topic online here:

           

           http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513823#513823

rvtach

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Tucson, AZ

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2024 6:44 am Post subject: Re: Small battery choice

I have followed the advice of some of the AeroElectric List old-timers- don't remember who- to just buy the cheapest PC-680 sized battery off of amazon and replace it every year. At $40-ish per battery, it's hard to beat the economics of this approach and these cheap batteries have never failed me in over 200 hours /3 years flying my RV-7A. I keep it on a battery tender between fights.



Granted, I'm not cranking an IO-550 but I'm comfortable with this approach because i'm not equipped for IFR so losing my main alternator in the soup is not an concern plus my electronic ignitions are self powering P-Mags AND I have an SD-8 standby alternator which has proven capable of powering all my in-flight cross country electrical needs on one long cross when a poorly supported field wire on my externally regulated 60 amp B&C alternator broke. 



Here's my most recently purchased battery: 



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01JNYZL2U/?coliid=I2X6Y2VA0A4R5S&colid=R6WOLQ06AHBC&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

_________________
Jim McChesney
Tucson, AZ
RV-7A Flying

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