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bwade154(at)yahoo.com
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 Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:10 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Great reply Mark, I wrote a reply after reading but felt A35PLT was a troll and didn't want to encourage him-her also didn't have anything to do with Yak's or CJ's it made me fell better though. One little cricket Bill Wade N4450Y
From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>
To: yak-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 1:25 PM
Subject: RE: Re: ATC Fees at Air Shows
--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
It's debatable whether this is a valid YAK-List topic but we've strayed
over that boundary many times.
I am not sure whether the EAA is a "privately owned business" per se.
That's a legal topic I would rather not broach, but let's for a moment
assume you are correct, because in my opinion it really doesn't matter
anyway.
KOSH is a public use airport with a Control Tower. It is owned by the
COUNTY and not the "EAA". That control tower is authorized and managed
by the FAA.
This FAA managed Control Tower is required to provide AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROL to all aircraft taking off from, and arriving to that specific
airport. This is not an OPTIONAL FUNCTION, as in "Car or Gun Show
Security", so that comparison does not "fly"! In any case, that Control
Tower is RESPONSIBLE FOR FLIGHT SAFETY UNDER FEDERAL LAW.
Every single towered airport keeps a count of every take-off and landing
performed. Those numbers are used to determine manning levels at the
tower. If you have a lot of activity at the airport, be it General
Aviation, Military, or Commercial, the FAA will increase or decrease
manning levels accordingly.
There are many cases where airport activity increases dramatically for a
number of reasons. When that happens, and that activity is known in
advance, the FAA increases manning levels accordingly, regardless of the
reason. This happens all the time, all over the country, EVERY SINGLE
DAY.
As I said, the FAA provides Air Traffic Control in order to provide
mandated FLIGHT SAFETY to folks in the air, and the general public on
the ground as mandated by FEDERAL LAW. They are funded by the Federal
Government through a number of means in order to meet this REQUIREMENT.
That funding does not include charging the Aviation Public directly for
their services, which is why the EAA is taking the FAA to court.
Keep in mind that these kinds of charges have never been made before, to
the EAA or anyone else. It is a direct attempt at "Usage Charges",
which President Obama during a direct interview said that he and his
administration supported. If you consider that fact to be: "constant
hysterical blaming of Obama", then so be it.
The FAA has never done this before, the FAA is under control of the
present administration, the present administration has promoted "Usage
Charges" to General Aviation. Now normally I would think 2+2=4
However, you are implying that 2+2= "constant hysterical blaming of
Obama"
Really? Good luck with that.
The subject is ATC Fees at Air Shows. It really should be: "Usage
Charges of any type to General Aviation". Oshkosh was just the opening
shot. More is sure to follow. I can't imagine why any General Aviation
pilot or aircraft owner would think that this kind of thing makes sense
and would support it in any way, shape, or form, PARTICULARLY when the
EAA was involved, which is an organization that does nothing but support
the folks on the Yak-List.
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William Halverson
Joined: 27 Feb 2010
Posts: 88
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:13 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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BZ = Bravo Zulu = Current naval slang for 'job well done' http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq101-2.htm
[quote]
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:10 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Akin to SH.
DOC
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 19, 2013, at 3:43 PM, William Halverson <william(at)netpros.net> wrote:
| Quote: |
BZ Mark.
On 8/19/2013 10:25 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD wrote:
>
>
> It's debatable whether this is a valid YAK-List topic but we've strayed
> over that boundary many times.
>
> I am not sure whether the EAA is a "privately owned business" per se.
> That's a legal topic I would rather not broach, but let's for a moment
> assume you are correct, because in my opinion it really doesn't matter
> anyway.
|
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:26 pm Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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So right Pappy. The contract on my land lease reads that I can not operate a POL selling fuel from my Ramp at my hanger. They included a non compete clause in the damned contract. Only the city can operate the fuel pumps. I can not even contract a fuel truck to come in for a Yak Fly in yet they will not give a discount on fuel for an event either. As a result turn times are delayed because of the single filing through the fuel pits forthe self serve pumps. As a result, I said screw it and dropped the Red Air events. Their loss! The FBO at Selma changed hands and became unfriendly to YAKs N CJs also.
Doc
Sent from my iPad
On Aug 19, 2013, at 4:06 PM, cjpilot710(at)aol.com (cjpilot710(at)aol.com) wrote:
[quote] Here I tend to agree with Mark, BUT, several problems are apparent, "Sequestration" and the ever creeping expansion of government. This expansion of government, occurs at the local level, when local politicians (mayors or city commissioners) to justify their existence by pushing for control towers, though their federal congressmen, to get the FAA to put in a control tower, even if the amount of traffic didn't justify a control tower. The federal subsidies are to tempting for local politicos to pass up. With in 30 miles of my field are 5 control towers that can not be justified by the amount of traffic. 3 of them are there because of the influence of Emory Riddle at DAB. That's a political considering, not a operational one on any account. Right now because of the sequestration the FAA plans on shutting down 14 control towers in FL, the most of any state, and in my opinion, a good idea.
A pilot dependent on ground control, is a poor pilot in my book. It leads a pilot to not learn SA or develop pilot decision making skills. BTW one of the airports schedule to be closed is OSH. However that was not due for several months, so Mark's point is still valid. Now on those X-country, when you stop to refuel, how many airports do you find that are NOT operated by a private FBO? I fly a B-24 around the country. I often (to often in my opinion) the FBO is part of the local government structure (i.e. a political controlled money making business). I once was at an airport that had a control tower, 10 T hangars, country run FBO (4 employees), and one 5,000' runway. In the 3 days we were there, I saw ONE - repeat ONE - C-150 doing touch and go's One day! Nothing else. In the old days in the private sector, this is called 'feather bedding'. The only thing that stops feather bedding in government is your vote. And yes we can blame this of BO.
Jim "Pappy" Goolsby
In a message dated 8/19/2013 1:30:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil) writes:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>
It's debatable whether this is a valid YAK-List topic but we've strayed
over that boundary many times.
I am not sure whether the EAA is a "privately owned business" per se.
That's a legal topic I would rather not broach, but let's for a moment
assume you are correct, because in my opinion it really doesn't matter
anyway.
KOSH is a public use airport with a Control Tower. It is owned by the
COUNTY and not the "EAA". That control tower is authorized and managed
by the FAA.
This FAA managed Control Tower is required to provide AIR TRAFFIC
CONTROL to all aircraft taking off from, and arriving to that specific
airport. This is not an OPTIONAL FUNCTION, as in "Car or Gun Show
Security", so that comparison does not "fly"! In any case, that Control
Tower is RESPONSIBLE FOR FLIGHT SAFETY UNDER FEDERAL LAW.
Every single towered airport keeps a count of every take-off and landing
performed. Those numbers are used to determine manning levels at the
tower. If you have a lot of activity at the airport, be it General
Aviation, Military, or Commercial, the FAA will increase or decrease
manning levels accordingly.
There are many cases where airport activity increases dramatically for a
number of reasons. When that happens, and that activity is known in
advance, the FAA increases manning levels accordingly, regardless of the
reason. This happens all the time, all over the country, EVERY SINGLE
DAY.
As I said, the FAA provides Air Traffic Control in order to provide
mandated FLIGHT SAFETY to folks in the air, and the general public on
the ground as mandated by FEDERAL LAW. They are funded by the Federal
Government through a number of means in order to meet this REQUIREMENT.
That funding does not include charging the Aviation Public directly for
their services, which is why the EAA is taking the FAA to court.
Keep in mind that these kinds of charges have never been made before, to
the EAA or anyone else. It is a direct attempt at "Usage Charges",
which President Obama during a direct interview said that he and his
administration supported. If you consider that fact to be: "constant
hysterical blaming of Obama", then so be it.
The FAA has never done this before, the FAA is under control of the
present administration, the present administration has promoted "Usage
Charges" to General Aviation. Now normally I would think 2+2=4
However, you are implying that 2+2= "constant hysterical blaming of
Obama"
Really? Good luck with that.
The subject is ATC Fees at Air Shows. It really should be: "Usage
Charges of any type to General Aviation". Oshkosh was just the opening
shot. More is sure to follow. I can't imagine why any General Aviation
pilot or aircraft owner would think that this kind of thing makes sense
and would support it in any way, shape, or form, PARTICULARLY when the
EAA was involved, which is an organization that does nothing but support
the folks on the Yak-List.
--
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crobin(at)skyvantage.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:08 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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My apologies to the moderator.
Obama SucksĀ
Cory.
[quote][b]
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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:20 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Cory,
Please don't hold back....how do you REALLY feel about Obama?
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 8/20/2013 9:04 AM, Cory Robin wrote:
| Quote: | My apologies to the moderator.
Obama Sucks
Cory.
*
*
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crobin(at)skyvantage.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:43 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=165804856927490&set=pb.144187745755868.-2207520000.1377009575.&type=3&theater
On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:18 AM, A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:
[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)>
Cory,
Please don't hold back....how do you REALLY feel about Obama?
Dennis
A. Dennis Savarese
334-285-6263
334-546-8182 (mobile)
www.yak-52.com
Skype - Yakguy1
On 8/20/2013 9:04 AM, Cory Robin wrote:
| Quote: | My apologies to the moderator.
Obama Sucks
Cory.
|
[b]
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:47 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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Welcome back.
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viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 20, 2013 7:01 am Post subject: ATC Fees at Air Shows |
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I think he is NORDO again.
Doc
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