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Bruce Cruikshank
Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Posts: 6
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 Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:27 am Post subject: Zenith701801-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 09/23/12 |
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I have a CH750. Not liking the small holes on the inside edge of the standard fuel cap, I drilled 4 #40 holes in the inner piece outside the gasget, and drilled out the center hole #30. At the start the tanks fed evenly. After several hours all of a sudden they fed very unevenly, 10 gal imbalance in 12 gal tanks. I reversed one of the caps (they can go on two ways), woa la even feeding again. I marked "front on both caps, not more problems.
Bruce
On Mon, Sep 24, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Zenith701801-List Digest Server <zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)> wrote:
[quote]*
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Zenith701801-List Digest Archive
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Total Messages Posted Sun 09/23/12: 4
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Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:26 AM - Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems? (ronlee)
2. 09:07 AM - Re: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems? (Skyraider)
3. 09:50 AM - Re: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems? (Randall Hebert)
4. 09:21 PM - Re: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems? (Dan Wilde)
________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________
Time: 06:26:54 AM PST US
Subject: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems?
From: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)>
I have snorkel tubes on each gas cap and they still feed uneven . My guess is that
the one that produces the most pressure feeds the fastest. The only way to
have even pressure on each tank is to have only one snorkel cap, the other non
vented and have an equalizer tube between the tanks as some GA have. It is an
issue as I really don't know when one or the other tank is completly empty so
I can't use all my fuel safely. I don't have enough balls to test while in flight
if fuel will still flow once one side is empty. I have actually had fuel
transfer from one tank to fill the other one time when a fuel cap was left off
one side. The side with the snorkel forced it to the tank with the cap off.
I thought my fuel gages were going crazy as one gage was going up and the other
down. I do have a valve to feed each side separate or both at once. I now always
use only one side at a time so I know about where I am with fuel. The fact
is I just don't have the guts to burn one side till I run out so I never know
for sure how much is left when I switch to the other side. As I said, I do believe
if there was an equalizer tube between the tanks they would feed even unless
one tends to fly with one wing low.
Someone should be able to figure this problem out as it has been ongoing for a
long time now, years actually.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383823#383823
________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________
Time: 09:07:40 AM PST US
From: Skyraider <oldjagman(at)yahoo.com (oldjagman(at)yahoo.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems?
For those unaware.....=0A=0A-Never trust fuel gauges! --Never trust f
uel gauges! ---Never trust fuel gauges!=0A=0AThere are all sorts of a
luminum assemblies,-in burnt piles on the ground for-=0Athose that have
.=0A=0A=0A1) -KNOW your fuel consumption rate at various altitudes.=0A=0A
-One way, to find out is :-=0A=0A-Know what the tank capacity is. -
(If the tank is not a standard,-=0Afill it with a gallon milk jug the fir
st time...)=0A=0A-Fill the tanks full.-=0A-Fly the various altitudes
for a specific time,--say for one hour, -=0Aland,--and refill to
same mark, noting the amount added.=0A=0ADo the math.. if....one hour at 20
00 feet takes 5.4 gals.=0ATherefore the fuel burn rate for 2000' is 5.4 gal
s.hr. for that altitude.=0A=0A2)Do the same for -differing altitudes, on
-different days, at different -temps.-=0A-noting throttle settings
so you can repeat the exercise with certainty.=0A-=0A-You will develop
a chart you can refer to.=0Aaverage the numbers, and that will be-your av
erage fuel burn rate=0A=0A3) -Add to that two gallons for taxi, run-up an
d climb.=0A=0A4) Keep track of hours flown multiply hours flown by burn rat
e to get fuel used.=0A-use an E6B flight computer, -or even--pad an
d pencil.-=0A=0AYou have to keep track of these items (alt, throttle, & m
ixture settings) on every flight.=0A-This should be part of the first 40
hours of -"Phase One" -testing.-=0A=0A=0AIt is also part, -of the "
pilot workload" we often hear so much about, that is never really explained
..=0A-=0AWith Certified aircraft, this is done by the manufacturer, and
noted in the POH=0A(Pilots Operating Handbook)=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AAlternatively,
-if that is too much work,=0Acheck out :=0A=0Ahttp://www.aircraftspruce.
com/menus/in/fuelinstrumentation_fuelcomputers.html-=0A=0A=0ABut even the
n, practice the pad and pencil method. Even double check the-=0Aflow mete
r itself.=0A=0A-You may one day fly an aircraft without a fuel flow meter
.-=0A-Your runway might be closed for an emergency and you'd need to d
ivert to another airport. -Then what? - Would you have fuel for the ext
ra distance?=0A=0AYou need to know these things. The life you save may be y
our own.=0A=0A-Fly Safe, - -Don't become a bad experimental aircraft
statistic.=0A=0A=0A=0AThanks for reading my rant...=0ACharlie NJ=0A=0A=0A>_
_______________________________=0A> From: ronlee <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)>=0A>T
o: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com) =0A>Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:2
6 AM=0A>Subject: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems?=0A> =0A>-->
Zenith701801-List message posted by: "ronlee" <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)>=0A>=0A
>I have snorkel tubes on each gas cap and they still feed uneven . My guess
is that the one that produces the most pressure feeds the fastest. The onl
y way to have even pressure on each tank is to have only one snorkel cap, t
he other non vented and have an equalizer tube between the tanks as some GA
have. It is an issue as I really don't know when one or the other tank is
completly empty so I can't use all my fuel safely. I don't have enough ball
s to test while in flight if fuel will still flow once one side is empty. I
have actually had fuel transfer from one tank to fill the other one time w
hen a fuel cap was left off one side. The side with the snorkel forced it t
o the tank with the cap off. I thought my fuel gages were going crazy as on
e gage was going up and the other down. I do have a valve to feed each side
separate or both at once. I now always use only one side at a time so I kn
ow about where I am with fuel. The fact is I just don't have the
guts to burn one side til!=0A>l I run out so I never know for sure how muc
h is left when I switch to the other side. As I said, I do believe if there
was an equalizer tube between the tanks they would feed even unless one te
nds to fly with one wing low.=0A>Someone should be able to figure this prob
lem out as it has been ongoing for a long time now, years actually.=0A>=0A>
--------=0A>Ron Lee=0A>Tucson, Arizona=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>Read this topic o
nline here:=0A>=0A>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383823#383
=============0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>
________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________
Time: 09:50:15 AM PST US
From: "Randall Hebert" <randy(at)rjhebertassoc.com (randy(at)rjhebertassoc.com)>
Subject: RE: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems?
Zenith's plans give accurate dimensions for the tanks
I developed an Excel spreadsheet that provides gallons per inch of depth
and/or gallons per numbered mark on a glass measuring gage from Sporty's. I
had the Cessna 152 but got the generic one anyway.
The marks can then be charted on the spreadsheet chart.
Anyone with Excel can do this.
I have it attached in pdf format.
I hope it goes thru
Randall J. Hebert
Plans Building N7701P
From: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com)
[mailto:owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Skyraider
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems?
For those unaware.....
Never trust fuel gauges! Never trust fuel gauges! Never trust fuel
gauges!
There are all sorts of aluminum assemblies, in burnt piles on the ground for
those that have.
1) KNOW your fuel consumption rate at various altitudes.
One way, to find out is :
Know what the tank capacity is. (If the tank is not a standard,
fill it with a gallon milk jug the first time...)
Fill the tanks full.
Fly the various altitudes for a specific time, say for one hour,
land, and refill to same mark, noting the amount added.
Do the math.. if....one hour at 2000 feet takes 5.4 gals.
Therefore the fuel burn rate for 2000' is 5.4 gals.hr. for that altitude.
2)Do the same for differing altitudes, on different days, at different
temps.
noting throttle settings so you can repeat the exercise with certainty.
You will develop a chart you can refer to.
average the numbers, and that will be your average fuel burn rate
3) Add to that two gallons for taxi, run-up and climb.
4) Keep track of hours flown multiply hours flown by burn rate to get fuel
used.
use an E6B flight computer, or even pad and pencil.
You have to keep track of these items (alt, throttle, & mixture settings) on
every flight.
This should be part of the first 40 hours of "Phase One" testing.
It is also part, of the "pilot workload" we often hear so much about, that
is never really explained...
With Certified aircraft, this is done by the manufacturer, and noted in the
POH
(Pilots Operating Handbook)
Alternatively, if that is too much work,
check out :
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/in/fuelinstrumentation_fuelcomputers.htm
l
But even then, practice the pad and pencil method. Even double check the
flow meter itself.
You may one day fly an aircraft without a fuel flow meter..
Your runway might be closed for an emergency and you'd need to divert to
another airport. Then what? Would you have fuel for the extra distance?
You need to know these things. The life you save may be your own.
Fly Safe, Don't become a bad experimental aircraft statistic.
Thanks for reading my rant...
Charlie NJ
_____
From: ronlee <rlee468(at)comcast.net (rlee468(at)comcast.net)>
Sent: Sunday, September 23, 2012 9:26 AM
Subject: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems?
I have snorkel tubes on each gas cap and they still feed uneven . My guess
is that the one that produces the most pressure feeds the fastest. The only
way to have even pressure on each tank is to have only one snorkel cap, the
other non vented and have an equalizer tube between the tanks as some GA
have. It is an issue as I really don't know when one or the other tank is
completly empty so I can't use all my fuel safely. I don't have enough balls
to test while in flight if fuel will still flow once one side is empty. I
have actually had fuel transfer from one tank to fill the other one time
when a fuel cap was left off one side. The side with the snorkel forced it
to the tank with the cap off. I thought my fuel gages were going crazy as
one gage was going up and the other down. I do have a valve to feed each
side separate or both at once. I now always use only one side at a time so I
know about where I am with fuel. The fact is I just don't have the guts to
burn one side til!
l I run out so I never know for sure how much is left when I switch to the
other side. As I said, I do believe if there was an equalizer tube between
the tanks they would feed even unless one tends to fly with one wing low.
Someone should be able to figure this problem out as it has been ongoing for
a long time now, years actually.
--------
Ron Lee
Tucson, Arizona
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=383823#383823
nith701801-List"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-Lista
href="http://forums.matronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.mat
&nbs//www.matronics.com/contribution"
target="_blank">http://www.matronics.co=================
________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________
Time: 09:21:22 PM PST US
From: Dan Wilde <stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com (stolpilot.wilde(at)gmail.com)>
Subject: Re: Re: LeftRight Fuel Systems?
On 9/23/2012 6:26 AM, ronlee wrote:
>
> I have snorkel tubes on each gas cap and they still feed uneven . My guess is
that the one that produces the most pressure feeds the fastest. The only way
to have even pressure on each tank is to have only one snorkel cap, the other
non vented and have an equalizer tube between the tanks as some GA have. It is
an issue as I really don't know when one or the other tank is completly empty
so I can't use all my fuel safely. I don't have enough balls to test while in
flight if fuel will still flow once one side is empty. I have actually had fuel
transfer from one tank to fill the other one time when a fuel cap was left
off one side. The side with the snorkel forced it to the tank with the cap off.
I thought my fuel gages were going crazy as one gage was going up and the other
down. I do have a valve to feed each side separate or both at once. I now
always use only one side at a time so I know about where I am with fuel. The fact
is I just don't have the guts to burn one side til!
> l I run out so I never know for sure how much is left when I switch to the
other side. As I said, I do believe if there was an equalizer tube between the
tanks they would feed even unless one tends to fly with one wing low.
> Someone should be able to figure this problem out as it has been ongoing for
a long time now, years actually.
>
> --------
> Ron Lee
> Tucson, Arizona
>
>
Ron: Before I put individual shutoff valves on my fuel lines, I made a
long trip (2+ hours) and my right fuel gauge went to empty while the
left tank still showed full. Since I did not fall out of the sky I am
sure the other tank was feeding fuel to the engine. However, I did land
early and fill up the right tank just to ease my mind. I must admit
there was some pucker factor at work since the area I was flying over at
the time did not have any good spots to set down if things went bad.
Shortly after that flight I installed the valves so now I can regulate
fuel flow.
I asked Zenith about this and they assured me the other tank would feed
once the right tank got low enough. However peace of mind is worth it
for a couple of bucks for shutoff valves.
Dan Wilde
N948DW
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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| Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: Zenith701801-List Digest: 4 Msgs - 09/23/12 |
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I can say on my 801, the wings have such great lift and the top of the wing is in a huge low pressure area that the factory vented caps leaked like hell through those "vent holes" when the tanks are topped off with fuel,,,,and stained my paint.... It happened on my very first flight.... Thank god when I built my plane and the additional long range tanks I plumbed in vents on the lower part of my wings.... All I did was to epoxy the holes closed and use the underwing vents..... No issues since, in 400+ hours and 9 years.....
Don't even get me started on the 300 dollar a gallon Dupont Imron Aircraft paint getting stained by 100LL blue dye. I mean, geez louis,, it is formulated for aircraft.. :<(.....
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com
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