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Acceleration

 
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Acceleration Reply with quote

I ignore Ron Levy. Show me the math. Show me the assumptions. Show me a graph of dragster acceleration vs 'g's as a function of time. Then make the comparison.
From: Larry Matteo <larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Acceleration


Seems to me , as usual, Ron has ALL the answers. He seems to have forgotten, though, that the carrier is probably doing 20 knots or so into the wind of, let's say another 10 to 20 knots. SO now the accelleration is really 0 to 80 or 90 knots in 300 feet. What's that compute to?
It is still conceivable that the carrier launched plane is still at a greater accelleration (or 'g') but it is for a much shorter period.

Larry Matteo
larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net
"Nothing is so contagious as enthusiasm."


From: David <goldpilot(at)AOL.COM>
To: TeamGrumman-List Digest List <teamgrumman-list-digest(at)matronics.com>
Sent: Tue, February 14, 2012 2:45:15 AM
Subject: Fw: Fw: Acceleration

#yiv753525887 body {word-wrap:break-word;background-color:#ffffff;}

David
Sent via Space-beam Phase Warp.
-----Original message-----
Quote:
From: Ron Levy <rblevy(at)mindspring.com>
To:
GOLDPILOT(at)aol.com
Sent:
Sat, Feb 11, 2012 16:19:20 GMT+00:00
Subject:
RE: Fw: Acceleration
The math is wrong. Zero to 300 mph in 4.5 seconds is only about 3 g’s (not “over 4”), and zero to 200 mph in 660 ft is only about 4.5 g’s (not approaching Cool.  Aircraft carrier catapults accelerate from zero to about 120 knots (140 mph) in 300 feet – that’s about 4.5 g’s. A long time ago, some car magazine did a side by side test of a top fuel dragster versus an F-14 at the catapult test facility at NAS Lakehurst – the F-14 won.

From: GOLDPILOT(at)aol.com [mailto:GOLDPILOT(at)aol.com]
Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2012 2:24 AM
Subject: Fwd: Fw: Acceleration





Quote:

From: l(at)sbcglobal.net (l(at)sbcglobal.net)
To: GOLDPILOT(at)aol.com
Sent: 2/9/2012 8:36:44 A.M. Pacific Standard Time
Subj: Fw: Acceleration




Thought you might find something of interest here...


----- Forwarded Message ----
From: Sent: Thu, February 9, 2012 7:17:03 AM
Subject: Acceleration
Quote:
Quote:
For those who love numbers, engineers, speed freaks and those who think they have gone too fast at one time or another. This puts Corvette performance in perspective. This article mentions Lingenfelter twin turbo powered Z06.

Read this thru slowly and try to comprehend the amount of force produced in just under 4 seconds! The last paragraph puts it all into perspective !

There are no rockets or airplanes built by any government in the world that can accelerate from a standing start as fast as a Top Fuel Dragster or Funny Car…..and that includes any aircraft launched by a catapult from an aircraft carrier. Nothing can compare…..





DEFINITION OF ACCELERATION
One top fuel dragster 500 cubic inch Hemi engine makes more horsepower than the first 4 rows of stock cars at the Daytona 500.

It takes just 15/100ths (0.15) of a second for all 6,000+ horsepower (some believe 8,000 HP is more realistic - there are no dynamometers capable of measuring) of an NHRA Top Fuel dragster engine to reach the rear wheels.
Under full throttle, a dragster engine consumes 1-1/2 gallons of nitro methane per second; a fully loaded 747 consumes jet fuel at the same rate with 25% less energy being produced.
A stock Dodge Hemi V8 engine cannot produce enough power to drive the dragster's supercharger.
With 3,000 CFM of air being rammed in by the supercharger on overdrive, the fuel mixture is compressed into a near-solid form before ignition.
Cylinders run on the verge of hydraulic lock at full throttle.
At the stoichiometric (stoichiometry: methodology and technology by which quantities of reactants and products in chemical reactions are determined) 1.7:1 air/fuel mixture of nitro methane, the flame front temperature measures 7,050 deg F. (Oxy-acetylene on "cut" is 6,300)
Nitro methane burns yellow. The spectacular white flame seen above the stacks at night is raw burning hydrogen, dissociated from atmospheric water vapor by the searing exhaust gases.
Dual magnetos supply 44 amps to each spark plug. This is the output of an arc welder in each cylinder.
Spark plug electrodes are totally consumed during one pass. After halfway, the engine is dieseling from compression, plus the glow of exhaust valves at 1,400 deg F.  The engine can only be shut down by cutting the fuel flow.
If spark momentarily fails early in the run, unburned nitro builds up in the affected cylinders and then explodes with sufficient force to blow cylinder heads off the block in pieces or split the block in half.
In order to exceed 300 mph in 4.5 seconds, dragsters must accelerate an average of over 4G's. In order to reach 200 mph well before half-track, the launch acceleration approaches 8G's.
Dragsters reach over 300 miles per hour before you have completed reading this sentence.
Top fuel engines turn approximately 540 revolutions from light to light! Including the burnout, the engine must only survive 900 revolutions under load.
The redline is actually quite high at 9,500 rpm.
Assuming all the equipment is paid off, the crew worked for free, and for once NOTHING BLOWS UP, each run costs an estimate $1,000.00 per second.
The current top fuel dragster elapsed time record is 4.428 seconds for the quarter mile (11/12/06, Tony Schumacher, at Pomona , CA ). The top speed record is 336.15 mph as measured over the last 66' of the run (05/25/05 Tony Schumacher, at Hebron , OH ).
Putting all of this into perspective:
You are driving the average $140,000 Lingenfelter 'twin-turbo' powered Corvette Z06. Over a mile up the road, a top fuel dragster is staged and ready to launch down a quarter mile strip as you pass. You have the advantage of a flying start. You run the 'Vette hard up through the gears and blast across the starting line and pass the dragster at an honest 200 mph. The 'tree' goes green for both of you at that instant.
The dragster launches and starts after you. You keep your foot down hard, but you hear an incredibly brutal whine that sears your eardrums and within 3 seconds, the dragster catches and passes you. He beats you to the finish line, a quarter mile away from where you just passed him.
Think about it, from a standing start, the dragster had spotted you 200 mph and not only caught, but nearly blasted you off the road when he passed you within a mere 1,320 foot long race course.
...... and that my friend, is ACCELERATION!











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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Acceleration Reply with quote

Catapult endspeed for an F/A-18E/F at max cat (66,000lbs) with no asymmetrical loading is 161kts. An asym level 3 shot (17,001-29,000lbs of asymmetrical loading) at the same weight has an endspeed of 174kts. 15-25kts of wind across the deck is ideal, although launches with 0 wind are possible. The catapult stroke is indeed about 300ft, cats 3 and 4 are slightly shorter than cats 1 and 2. The acceleration of each stroke is carefully controlled depending on aircraft weight so as to not rip off the nose gear. 2.5 seconds is probably a good average time. There are the numbers, I don't do math in public. I've never been in a dragster, but an asym 3 shot off cat 4 is something that you will NEVER forget.
LT Casey "Shackle" McCain
VFA-106
'79 AA5-B


Time: 02:27:26 PM PST US
From: Larry Matteo <larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net (larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Acceleration

Seems to me , as usual, Ron has=C2-ALL the answers. He seems to have forg
otten, =0Athough, that the carrier is probably doing 20 knots or so into th
e wind of, =0Alet's say=C2-another 10 to 20 knots. SO now the accellerati
on is really 0 to=C2-80 or =0A90 knots in 300 feet. What's that compute t
o?=0AIt is still conceivable that the carrier launched plane is still at a
=C2-greater =0Aaccelleration (or 'g') but it is for a much shorter period
.=0A=C2-Larry Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net ([email]Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net[/email])=0A"Nothing is so contagi
ous as enthusiasm." [quote][b]


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:13 pm    Post subject: Acceleration Reply with quote

The best dose of acceleration I've had was on the 'Nascar roller coaster', just up the street from the Stratosphere, Las Vegas. The linear accelerator shoots out through a hole in the wall, 90 degree turn, a loop and a 'vertical. Then it's backwards to the start. I rode it a dozen times and still couldn't prepare for the 'shot'. They do it twice per ticket but my buddy (who also likes 'coasters) bought the day pass. He only rode twice.
Wish I knew how fast we were going when the 'shot' quit!!!
Linn


On 2/15/2012 7:06 PM, Casey Mccain wrote: [quote] Catapult endspeed for an F/A-18E/F at max cat (66,000lbs) with no asymmetrical loading is 161kts. An asym level 3 shot (17,001-29,000lbs of asymmetrical loading) at the same weight has an endspeed of 174kts. 15-25kts of wind across the deck is ideal, although launches with 0 wind are possible. The catapult stroke is indeed about 300ft, cats 3 and 4 are slightly shorter than cats 1 and 2. The acceleration of each stroke is carefully controlled depending on aircraft weight so as to not rip off the nose gear. 2.5 seconds is probably a good average time. There are the numbers, I don't do math in public. I've never been in a dragster, but an asym 3 shot off cat 4 is something that you will NEVER forget.


LT Casey "Shackle" McCain
VFA-106
'79 AA5-B




Time: 02:27:26 PM PST US
From: Larry Matteo <larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net (larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Acceleration

Seems to me , as usual, Ron has=C2-ALL the answers. He seems to have forg
otten, =0Athough, that the carrier is probably doing 20 knots or so into th
e wind of, =0Alet's say=C2-another 10 to 20 knots. SO now the accellerati
on is really 0 to=C2-80 or =0A90 knots in 300 feet. What's that compute t
o?=0AIt is still conceivable that the carrier launched plane is still at a
=C2-greater =0Aaccelleration (or 'g') but it is for a much shorter period
.=0A=C2-Larry Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net ([email]Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net[/email])=0A"Nothing is so contagi
ous as enthusiasm."
Quote:

[b]


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:27 pm    Post subject: Acceleration Reply with quote

I rode the one in Vegas also. Great ride. Similar one at Magic Mountain in SoCal.
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Acceleration


The best dose of acceleration I've had was on the 'Nascar roller coaster', just up the street from the Stratosphere, Las Vegas. The linear accelerator shoots out through a hole in the wall, 90 degree turn, a loop and a 'vertical. Then it's backwards to the start. I rode it a dozen times and still couldn't prepare for the 'shot'.  They do it twice per ticket but my buddy (who also likes 'coasters) bought the day pass. He only rode twice.
Wish I knew how fast we were going when the 'shot' quit!!!
Linn


On 2/15/2012 7:06 PM, Casey Mccain wrote:
Quote:
Catapult endspeed for an F/A-18E/F at max cat (66,000lbs) with no asymmetrical loading is 161kts. An asym level 3 shot (17,001-29,000lbs of asymmetrical loading) at the same weight has an endspeed of 174kts. 15-25kts of wind across the deck is ideal, although launches with 0 wind are possible. The catapult stroke is indeed about 300ft, cats 3 and 4 are slightly shorter than cats 1 and 2. The acceleration of each stroke is carefully controlled depending on aircraft weight so as to not rip off the nose gear. 2.5 seconds is probably a good average time. There are the numbers, I don't do math in public. I've never been in a dragster, but an asym 3 shot off cat 4 is something that you will NEVER forget.


LT Casey "Shackle" McCain
VFA-106
'79 AA5-B




Time: 02:27:26 PM PST US
From: Larry Matteo <larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net (larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Acceleration

Seems to me , as usual, Ron has=C2-ALL the answers. He seems to have forg
otten, =0Athough, that the carrier is probably doing 20 knots or so into th
e wind of, =0Alet's say=C2-another 10 to 20 knots. SO now the accellerati
on is really 0 to=C2-80 or =0A90 knots in 300 feet. What's that compute t
o?=0AIt is still conceivable that the carrier launched plane is still at a
=C2-greater =0Aaccelleration (or 'g') but it is for a much shorter period
.=0A=C2-Larry Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net ([email]Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net[/email])=0A"Nothing is so contagi
ous as enthusiasm."
Quote:



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[quote][b]


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 9:25 am    Post subject: Acceleration Reply with quote

I also had a ride in an F-16 powered by a P&W 229. Full burner takeoff. That was fun.

Gary
Sent from my iPad

On Feb 15, 2012, at 6:27 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

[quote]I rode the one in Vegas also. Great ride. Similar one at Magic Mountain in SoCal.
From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Acceleration


The best dose of acceleration I've had was on the 'Nascar roller coaster', just up the street from the Stratosphere, Las Vegas. The linear accelerator shoots out through a hole in the wall, 90 degree turn, a loop and a 'vertical. Then it's backwards to the start. I rode it a dozen times and still couldn't prepare for the 'shot'. They do it twice per ticket but my buddy (who also likes 'coasters) bought the day pass. He only rode twice.
Wish I knew how fast we were going when the 'shot' quit!!!
Linn


On 2/15/2012 7:06 PM, Casey Mccain wrote:
Quote:
Catapult endspeed for an F/A-18E/F at max cat (66,000lbs) with no asymmetrical loading is 161kts. An asym level 3 shot (17,001-29,000lbs of asymmetrical loading) at the same weight has an endspeed of 174kts. 15-25kts of wind across the deck is ideal, although launches with 0 wind are possible. The catapult stroke is indeed about 300ft, cats 3 and 4 are slightly shorter than cats 1 and 2. The acceleration of each stroke is carefully controlled depending on aircraft weight so as to not rip off the nose gear. 2.5 seconds is probably a good average time. There are the numbers, I don't do math in public. I've never been in a dragster, but an asym 3 shot off cat 4 is something that you will NEVER forget.


LT Casey "Shackle" McCain
VFA-106
'79 AA5-B




Time: 02:27:26 PM PST US
From: Larry Matteo <larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net (larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Acceleration

Seems to me , as usual, Ron has=C2-ALL the answers. He seems to have forg
otten, =0Athough, that the carrier is probably doing 20 knots or so into th
e wind of, =0Alet's say=C2-another 10 to 20 knots. SO now the accellerati
on is really 0 to=C2-80 or =0A90 knots in 300 feet. What's that compute t
o?=0AIt is still conceivable that the carrier launched plane is still at a
=C2-greater =0Aaccelleration (or 'g') but it is for a much shorter period
.=0A=C2-Larry Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net ([email]Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net[/email])=0A"Nothing is so contagi
ous as enthusiasm."
Quote:

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BARRY CHECK 6



Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 5:58 pm    Post subject: Acceleration Reply with quote

Gary:

I did not think you were that young.
My flight was back seat F4.  Korea 1973-74.
Barry


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 3:11 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote]I also had a ride in an F-16 powered by a P&W 229.  Full burner takeoff. That was fun. 

Gary
Sent from my iPad

On Feb 15, 2012, at 6:27 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I rode the one in Vegas also.  Great ride.  Similar one at Magic Mountain in SoCal.


From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Acceleration


The best dose of acceleration I've had was on the 'Nascar roller coaster', just up the street from the Stratosphere, Las Vegas.  The linear accelerator shoots out through a hole in the wall, 90 degree turn, a loop and a 'vertical.  Then it's backwards to the start.  I rode it a dozen times and still couldn't prepare for the 'shot'.  They do it twice per ticket but my buddy (who also likes 'coasters) bought the day pass.  He only rode twice.
Wish I knew how fast we were going when the 'shot' quit!!!
Linn


On 2/15/2012 7:06 PM, Casey Mccain wrote:
Quote:
Catapult endspeed for an F/A-18E/F at max cat (66,000lbs) with no asymmetrical loading is 161kts.  An asym level 3 shot (17,001-29,000lbs of asymmetrical loading) at the same weight has an endspeed of 174kts. 15-25kts of wind across the deck is ideal, although launches with 0 wind are possible. The catapult stroke is indeed about 300ft, cats 3 and 4 are slightly shorter than cats 1 and 2. The acceleration of each stroke is carefully controlled depending on aircraft weight so as to not rip off the nose gear. 2.5 seconds is probably a good average time. There are the numbers, I don't do math in public. I've never been in a dragster, but an asym 3 shot off cat 4 is something that you will NEVER forget.


LT Casey "Shackle" McCain
VFA-106
'79 AA5-B




Time: 02:27:26 PM PST US
From: Larry Matteo <larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net (larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Acceleration

Seems to me , as usual, Ron has=C2-ALL the answers. He seems to have forg
otten, =0Athough, that the carrier is probably doing 20 knots or so into th
e wind of, =0Alet's say=C2-another 10 to 20 knots. SO now the accellerati
on is really 0 to=C2-80 or =0A90 knots in 300 feet. What's that compute t
o?=0AIt is still conceivable that the carrier launched plane is still at a
=C2-greater =0Aaccelleration (or 'g') but it is for a much shorter period
.=0A=C2-Larry Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net ([email]Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net[/email])=0A"Nothing is so contagi
ous as enthusiasm." 
Quote:

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:10 pm    Post subject: Acceleration Reply with quote

I was a propulsion engineer for the Air Force. Free rides.

Gary
Sent from my iPad

On Feb 16, 2012, at 5:40 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

[quote]Gary:

I did not think you were that young.
My flight was back seat F4. Korea 1973-74.
Barry


On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 3:11 AM, Gary L Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
Quote:
I also had a ride in an F-16 powered by a P&W 229. Full burner takeoff. That was fun.

Gary
Sent from my iPad

On Feb 15, 2012, at 6:27 PM, Gary Vogt <teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com (teamgrumman(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:

Quote:
I rode the one in Vegas also. Great ride. Similar one at Magic Mountain in SoCal.


From: Linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net (pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net)>
To: teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com (teamgrumman-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:13 PM
Subject: Re: Acceleration


The best dose of acceleration I've had was on the 'Nascar roller coaster', just up the street from the Stratosphere, Las Vegas. The linear accelerator shoots out through a hole in the wall, 90 degree turn, a loop and a 'vertical. Then it's backwards to the start. I rode it a dozen times and still couldn't prepare for the 'shot'. They do it twice per ticket but my buddy (who also likes 'coasters) bought the day pass. He only rode twice.
Wish I knew how fast we were going when the 'shot' quit!!!
Linn


On 2/15/2012 7:06 PM, Casey Mccain wrote:
Quote:
Catapult endspeed for an F/A-18E/F at max cat (66,000lbs) with no asymmetrical loading is 161kts. An asym level 3 shot (17,001-29,000lbs of asymmetrical loading) at the same weight has an endspeed of 174kts. 15-25kts of wind across the deck is ideal, although launches with 0 wind are possible. The catapult stroke is indeed about 300ft, cats 3 and 4 are slightly shorter than cats 1 and 2. The acceleration of each stroke is carefully controlled depending on aircraft weight so as to not rip off the nose gear. 2.5 seconds is probably a good average time. There are the numbers, I don't do math in public. I've never been in a dragster, but an asym 3 shot off cat 4 is something that you will NEVER forget.


LT Casey "Shackle" McCain
VFA-106
'79 AA5-B




Time: 02:27:26 PM PST US
From: Larry Matteo <larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net (larrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net)>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fw: Acceleration

Seems to me , as usual, Ron has=C2-ALL the answers. He seems to have forg
otten, =0Athough, that the carrier is probably doing 20 knots or so into th
e wind of, =0Alet's say=C2-another 10 to 20 knots. SO now the accellerati
on is really 0 to=C2-80 or =0A90 knots in 300 feet. What's that compute t
o?=0AIt is still conceivable that the carrier launched plane is still at a
=C2-greater =0Aaccelleration (or 'g') but it is for a much shorter period
.=0A=C2-Larry Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net ([email]Matteo=0Alarrymatteo(at)sbcglobal.net[/email])=0A"Nothing is so contagi
ous as enthusiasm."
Quote:

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lmassaro



Joined: 28 Sep 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 6:47 am    Post subject: Re: Acceleration Reply with quote

Whatever the acceleration is, its a kick in the ass.

Unfortunately, never had the opportunity to cat or trap in a fighter, but have done it four times in a C-2 while a tech rep on USS Stennis and USS Carl Vinson. I assume it is a much more benign catapult than an F/A-18, but let me tell you, it is an e-ticket ride. Sitting backwards in the cargo space during the cat adds an interesting twist. Trapping is pretty boring IMHO.

Funny side story. On one cat, the one of the cargo crew immediately unclipped their harness. Well, the C-2 pilot decided to fly back to San Diego (about 80 nm) at about 200 MSL. He pushed over and I watched the crewmember go airborne then come crashing down. Funny. Good thing he was wearing headgear.

Lawrence Massaro
9186M 1992 AG-5B KRNM
626FT 1991 AG-5B KAUN


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