Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Brake pedal ergonomics

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Brake pedal ergonomics

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:25 pm Post subject: Brake pedal ergonomics

My matco brakes work fine but I find the angle my ankles are in to to push on the top of the pedal with my toes is a pain.  Some times after I taxi the mile back to my trailer after landing my lower legs hurt like crazy.



The adjustment is already at the top of the master cylinder push rod.  I have seen a few pictures where people have attached wood blocks or put hose over the top tube on the brake pedals.  I'm guessing the purpose of those is to get a better toe angle on the brakes.



Any ideas on a fix for my old man legs appreciated.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

I sure hope there is a good solution to this one because it is in the front of m time about every time I do a landing and forget to move my feet completely off the brakes, and then have to remove my feet from the pedals to get back on the brakes when I transition to taxiing.  The mechanics of these brakes really should have been re-thought somewhere between Mk 1 and however far these things went, I know at least to Mk 3.

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:47 pm Post subject: Brake pedal ergonomics

I made the square blocks that are the links between the piston rod  

and the fixed point (?) longer.  What this did was to rotate the top  

of the pedal toward me, and made my short legs reach the tops of the  

pedals. It seems like I also shortened the cables, too, bringing the  

whole pedal closer.



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 876.7 hrs (since 3-27-2006)

Countdown to 1000 hrs~124 to go(135 days to go)

Sensenich 62"x46" Wood (summer)

Sensenich 55.5" x 46" Wood (winter)

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Rotec TBI-40 injection

Status: flying (and learning)

On Mar 11, 2010, at 8:25 PM, Tom Jones wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 My matco brakes work fine but I find the angle my ankles are in to  

 to push on the top of the pedal with my toes is a pain.  Some times  

 after I taxi the mile back to my trailer after landing my lower  

 legs hurt like crazy.



 The adjustment is already at the top of the master cylinder push  

 rod.  I have seen a few pictures where people have attached wood  

 blocks or put hose over the top tube on the brake pedals.  I'm  

 guessing the purpose of those is to get a better toe angle on the  

 brakes.



 Any ideas on a fix for my old man legs appreciated.



 --------

 Tom Jones

 Classic IV

 503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp

 Ellensburg, WA





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290068#290068

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

MDKitfox(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject: Brake pedal ergonomics

I have the same problem on my Model V.  To angle my size 13 feet back in order to keep my toes off the brakes is difficult.  On my last landing I went to put in some right rudder and ended up braking the right wheel.  It was fun screeching off to the right rapidly and unexpectedly!  The fix I made was to cut a one inch square of wood as wide as the pedal.  I secured it with duct tape, which actually holds the world together, so I know it won't come off.  I fit checked it while in the hangar, ( I now clear the brake by about ¼ of an inch) but haven't flown it.  If it works, I plan to make an aluminum copy of it and bolt it to the pedal, unless of course the duct tape works out good, in which case I'll stick with it (pun intended).  It reminds me when I was a kid and had blocks on the pedals because I couldn't reach them:-)



 Rick Weiss

N39RW Series V Speedster, 912ULS

SkyStar S/N 1

Port Orange, FL

 

 

On Mar 11, 2010, at 9:29 PM, WurlyBird wrote:

[quote]--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil (james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil)>



I sure hope there is a good solution to this one because it is in the front of m time about every time I do a landing and forget to move my feet completely off the brakes, and then have to remove my feet from the pedals to get back on the brakes when I transition to taxiing.  The mechanics of these brakes really should have been re-thought somewhere between Mk 1 and however far these things went, I know at least to Mk 3.



--------

James

Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop

The ink is still drying on my new certificate





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290072#290072



         - The Kitfox-List   -->             &n========================

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 5:13 am Post subject: Brake pedal ergonomics

Rick, I had the same problems with the toe brakes  on my model II, like many others.  My fix was to just keep a pair of moose  hide moccasins in the airplane and change out of my shoes whenever I would  fly.  They enabled me to "feel" the toe brakes and solved the  problem. 

 Deke

  

 [quote]   ---

Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:20 am Post subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

 	  Quote: 	
		  I made the square blocks that are the links between the piston rod

and the fixed point (?) longer. What this did was to rotate the top

of the pedal toward me, and made my short legs reach the tops of the

pedals. It seems like I also shortened the cables, too, bringing the

whole pedal closer.



Lynn Matteson 	




I had not even thought of adjusting the cables.  That may be the fix for me.  I have the adjustable connecting links.  If that doesn't help then the blocks mentioned by a few will be my next modification.

_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA

napierm(at)cisco.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 7:54 am Post subject: Brake pedal ergonomics

Hey James,



The brakes on my 3 bothered me too.  A fix that helps a lot is using the

KF 4 style E pedals.



On the 3 the brakes are connected to the rudder bars, not on the floor.

To make them fit you need the 4 style E pedals from the passenger

(right) side.  They will fit pilot (left) side on the 3.



I had to make two mods.  One is that the tube that went through the

pedal (hinge tube?) was too short so I welded on an extension.  The

other was that the lower corner of the tab that connects to the brake

tended to hit the clevis so I had to grind on it some.



You could probably get Kitfox Aircraft to make you a pair: just ask them

to make the center tube a couple of inches longer than normal.  You can

cut it to length with a hacksaw.



With that done you can keep your feet on the pedals without actuating

the brakes by mistake.



I did still have the issue others have mentioned.  With the pedal near

the firewall you have to push hard with your toes to actuate the brakes.

The right foot is worse because I have big feet and the top of my shoe

would catch on the throttle bell-crank and cables if I didn't think to

keep that foot low.



I also adjusted the cable length to compensate for my long legs and big

butt.  In the end the cockpit is large enough to keep me comfortable

even on long cross countries.



Have fun,



Mark

-------------------------------------------------------------

Time: 06:29:59 PM PST US

Subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

From: "WurlyBird" <james.t.trizzino(at)us.army.mil>

I sure hope there is a good solution to this one because it is in the

front of

m time about every time I do a landing and forget to move my feet

completely off

the brakes, and then have to remove my feet from the pedals to get back

on

the brakes when I transition to taxiing.  The mechanics of these brakes

really

should have been re-thought somewhere between Mk 1 and however far these

things

went, I know at least to Mk 3.



--------

James

Kitfox 3 / 582 / GSC prop

The ink is still drying on my new certificate

Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=290072#290072

Joel

Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 57
Location: Bremerton, WA USA

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:03 am Post subject: Brake pedal ergonomics

I made a similar arrangement using scraps of plastic/wood decking material. Totally water and rot proof, lighter than aluminum and easier to work with.

Joel, Kitfox V 912ULS Warp         

 



 		 	   		  

_________________________________________________________________

The New Busy is not the old busy. Search, chat and e-mail from your inbox

_________________
Joel Mapes Kitfox 5 912 ULS Aerocomp amphibs

pchristensen10(at)austin.
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 11:40 am Post subject: Brake pedal ergonomics

I have my idle set so that I hardly use the brakes.  As a matter of fact I 

flew to Oshkosh last summer and my right brake went out in route and I had 

no problem waiting until I got home to fix it.



Pete

Kitfox III, 912

Leander, TX

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 4:28 pm Post subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

http://www.avidfoxflyers.com/index.php?/topic/541-pic-request/



Good thread on the brake geometry, and what one guy has done to fix the issue.  I will have a set of his pedals if I ever take the floats of and go back to wheels.  As you can see in the pics that C5 posted, there is a small bar that your feet hit on to keep you off the brakes when you are trying to only use the rudder!

_________________
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Leonard Perry aka SNAKE
Soldotna AK
Avid "C" / Mk IV
582 (147 hrs and counting on the rebuild)
IVO IFA
Full Lotus 1450
#1 snake oil salesman since 1-22-2009

I would rather die trying to live, than to live trying not to die....

WurlyBird

Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 207
Location: North Pole, Alaska

Posted: Fri Mar 12, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

Does anyone have a picture or two they can post of what they are talking about?



It sounds like some of you are saying you attached a block to the front side of the rudder pedal, which would certainly help me as I am also one of those short people, which shifts the function of the brake farther back from the seat.  If this is the case is there still plenty of room to apply full brake?

_________________
James
Kitfox 3 / 582 / 70" IVO 2 blade GA
50 hrs on the 582 swapping for HKS 700E and Avid Cowl.

Ken Potter

Joined: 18 Aug 2007
Posts: 85
Location: Lanark, Ontario

Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 3:59 am Post subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

I came to similar conclusions when I was installing the brakes last fall.  The solution I came up with was to cut a "wedge" out of the brake pedal tubing, bend it forward until the wedge was closed and then weld the joint.  The result is that the pedals sit farther forward and my toes do not touch them when my feet are on the rudder pedals.



KP

_________________
Ken Potter
Model II, No. 483
Rotax 582, C-Box,
99% Complete
C-FJKP
Lanark, Ontario

akflyer

Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 574
Location: Soldotna AK

Posted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 7:10 am Post subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

 	  WurlyBird wrote: 	
		  Does anyone have a picture or two they can post of what they are talking about?



It sounds like some of you are saying you attached a block to the front side of the rudder pedal, which would certainly help me as I am also one of those short people, which shifts the function of the brake farther back from the seat.  If this is the case is there still plenty of room to apply full brake? 	




James,



If you click the link I posted it will take you to a bunch of pics.

jridgway

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 64

Posted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

I did not have much luck with the blocks. I am welding in a extra 1.5 inch extension to raise the brake bar. Hope to test it in the next day or so.

Jack

jridgway

Joined: 12 Dec 2008
Posts: 64

Posted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 7:04 am Post subject: Re: Brake pedal ergonomics

raising the brake arm up 1.5 inch solved my problem. makes all the difference in the world. however, they are no longer true 'toe-brakes'. You do have to lift you feet some to get on them.

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Kitfox-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum