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mau11(at)free.fr
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 Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 2:46 am Post subject: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
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Remi Guerner a écrit :
| Quote: | <<<<<Can the airplane be reused after a BRS deployment?>>>>>>>
Hi all,
Regarding whole airplane emergency parachutes there are some
interresting videos on the BRS web site. One of them shows a RANS S6
deploying its parachute after hitting the tow rope of a glider tow
over Gap airfield in south east France.
http://brsparachutes.com/files/brsparachutes/files/cnn_off_air.wmv
On the same video there is a parachute deployment on a Cirrus. They
say both the Cirrus and the Rans were back in the air after repair.
Remi Guerner
*
*
Salut Rémi,
|
J'ai vu plusieurs de ces vidéos, et j'ai même assisté à un test de BRS,
le bonhomme s'en sort mais l'appareil est généralement détruit ce n'est
pas forcément visible mais la structure est morte et c'était avec un
cessna 152 réputé solide, il est allé directement à la casse.
Généralement la vitesse de descente avoisine les 7 à 8 m/s. Même à 5 m/s
l'appareil a de très gros dommages.
Pour obtenir 6 m/s il faut environ 1m² de tissu pour 1kg de charge soit
pour un europa à 621 kg au moins 600m² ce qui pèse plus de 50kg,et même
à cette vitesse l'appareil est très endommagé
Tout le reste est du marketing relativement bidon.
L'autre solution est le parachute personnel, mais là il faut évacuer
l'appareil, car déja sortir d'un Europa en vol stable cela ne doit pas
être simple, mais s'il est en mauvaise configuration c'est une autre
affaire.
Le parachute sur l'avion reste la solution la meilleure pour sauver sa
peau mais surement pas pour sauver l'avion à condition toutefois que le
dispositif ait été implanté lors de l'étude de l'appareil intégrant le
centrage.
Maintenant compte tenu de l'abaissement lors de la séquence d'ouverture
si on vole à 1000ft c'est fichu.
Les tests réalisés par tous les dispositifs le sont à 5000ft.
Mais le rêve du parachute subsiste, la plupart des vidéos sont réalisées
avec des ULM ou avions allégés au maximum naturellement.
Personnellement je ne revolerai pas sur un appareil ayant subi un tel
impact, car aucun appareil au monde n'est conçu et étudié pour cela.
A+
--
--|--
--------(*)--------
Michel AUVRAY
mau11(at)free.fr
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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:00 am Post subject: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
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Why would bailing out of a Erupoa be particularly dangerous? Many pilots bailed out in the last war and survived - even flew the next day.
I have made many jumps on round chutes and yes it is a bit of a bump on landing but I am not sure 12´ wall is correct mind you i was a but younger then. And yes people do hurt themselves landing on rough terrain but on the whole it is confined to broken ankles. I seem to recall that the minimum operational jump height out of a C130 is 600´ trainig jump height is 800´, that said most of my jumps were night jumps because I had my eyes shut.
I certainly plan to wear a chute when testing and a crash hat ....oh and some decent boots to reduce the possibliity of ankle injury.
Will
Frans Veldman wrote: [quote] | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman <frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.nl> (frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.nl)
Richard Churchill-Coleman wrote:
| Quote: | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
We have no mandatory test flying phase in the Netherlands. I will
receive my papers (hopefully) soon, and the rest is up to me. I can
start my world tour right at the first flight if I want to. 
| Quote: | 2. My guess is that having your plane controls welded by lightning is quite
a low probability......albeit a bit unfortunate when it does happen....
|
I agree with you on this. There are some risks involved with flying, and
this one is one to be taken.
| Quote: | 3. Just to be clear, I'm not saying you will definitely be seriously injured
landing in rough terrain .... I just think you will more often be less
injured steering the airframe into trees, river, rocks etc and letting it
take the impact instead of you.
|
I have not so much confidence in a Europa taking much of an impact. A
Cessna is great in this respect, but a Europa, well, I guess the nose
shatters in pieces when it hits the first rock, and then the occupants
are the ones to take the next hit. Glass plaines don't bend or get
diverted from an obstacle, they just scatter into pieces and the
remainder continues its way.
| Quote: | 4. Round chute landings are compared with jumping off a 12 foot high wall -
|
Wow. Hmm, I'm not sure whether I would survive that even in my own level
backyard, let alone on "uneven" surface. Now I start to understand why
you think that staying with the airplane would probably be a better option.
| Quote: | 6. The ideal is to get some training if you believe that using a parachute
is an option you would prefer. If you can jump with a square, steerable
reserve, then a lot of these risks reduce significantly.
|
I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
0 | Quote: | | Quote: | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
1 I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
2 | Quote: | | Quote: | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
3 I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
4 | Quote: | | Quote: | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
5 I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
6 [quote] | Quote: | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my comments
ignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the same
system in UK.
|
7 I think you are right on this. Thanks, Frans
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:57 am Post subject: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
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Just make sure you can work the pedals safely with boots on! A boot stuck between pedal and fuselage side might cause an incident.
Graham
From: William Daniell <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co>
I certainly plan to wear a chute when testing and a crash hat ....oh and some decent boots to reduce the possibliity of ankle injury.
Will
Frans Veldman wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: Frans Veldman <frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.nl> (frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.nl)
Richard Churchill-Coleman wrote:
| Quote: | | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
We have no mandatory test flying phase in the Netherlands. I willreceive my papers (hopefully) soon, and the rest is up to me. I canstart my world tour right at the first flight if I want to. | Quote: | | 2. My guess is that having your plane controls welded by lightning is quitea low probability......albeit a bit unfortunate when it does happen.... |
I agree with you on this. There are some risks involved with flying, andthis one is one to be taken. | Quote: | | 3. Just to be clear, I'm not saying you will definitely be seriously injuredlanding in rough terrain .... I just think you will more often be lessinjured steering the airframe into trees, river, rocks etc and letting ittake the impact instead of you. |
I have not so much confidence in a Europa taking much of an impact. ACessna is great in this respect, but a Europa, well, I guess the noseshatters in pieces when it hits the first rock, and then the occupantsare the ones to take the next hit. Glass plaines don't bend or getdiverted from an obstacle, they just scatter into pieces and theremainder continues its way. | Quote: | | 4. Round chute landings are compared with jumping off a 12 foot high wall - |
Wow. Hmm, I'm not sure whether I would survive that even in my own levelbackyard, let alone on "uneven" surface. Now I start to understand whyyou think that staying with the airplane would probably be a better option. | Quote: | | 6. The ideal is to get some training if you believe that using a parachuteis an option you would prefer. If you can jump with a square, steerablereserve, then a lot of these risks reduce significantly. |
I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
0 | Quote: | | Quote: | | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
1 I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
2 | Quote: | | Quote: | | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
3 I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
4 | Quote: | | Quote: | | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
5 I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
6 | Quote: | | Quote: | | I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
7 I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
8 I have to agree with him, and a helmet would be useful too - all my commentsignored the test flying phase of flying as we don't have quite the samesystem in UK. |
9
[quote][b]
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:58 am Post subject: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
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On Dec 16, 2009, at 4:56 AM, William Daniell wrote:
| Quote: | Many pilots bailed out in the last war and survived
|
Quite true of course...youngsters in their teens & twenties...when I
too was a bit more resilient and agile...today, not so
much...irrespective of the motivation.
Fred
do not archive
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rampil
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:06 am Post subject: Re: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
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Hi Franz,
With all due respect, your need for a parachute of any type will be
reduced by more than 90% if you just stay out of your Europa when:
There is ice in the sky (or nasty clouds )
There is ice in your Ethanol boosted drink (emphasis on ethanol drink)
There is insufficient fuel in your tank.
I would also stay away from reverse flow akro like tail slides.
Europas are not known for falling in pieces (except in a single case of
poor construction), so just fly conservatively and enjoy!
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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 10:51 am Post subject: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
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good point i´ll use my dainty dancing boots then...
GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote: [quote] Just make sure you can work the pedals safely with boots on! A boot stuck between pedal and fuselage side might cause an incident.
Graham
From: William Daniell <wdaniell(at)etb.net.co> (wdaniell(at)etb.net.co)
I
[b]
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
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| Quote: | On Dec 16, 2009, at 4:56 AM, William Daniell wrote:
> Many pilots bailed out in the last war and survived
|
..and at least one of them (extremely lucky one) bailed out w/o a parachute and survived alive.
He dropped into a snowy swamp his ass first. That was during Winter War between Finland and Russian.
He was a Finnish pilot flying Brewster (that was NOT BW372 and do NOT try it at home!).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War
http://www.warbirdforum.com/bw372.htm
Raimo Toivio
OH-XRT
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Dec 17, 2009 3:48 am Post subject: Emergency parachutes, opinions? |
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Michel
that looks interesting, why not resend in English?
regards of the season, I will be in the hills near Malaga, trying to unforget my espanol!
Graham
From: Michel AUVRAY <mau11(at)free.fr>
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, 16 December, 2009 10:36:19
Subject: Re: Emergency parachutes, opinions?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Michel AUVRAY <mau11(at)free.fr (mau11(at)free.fr)>
Remi Guerner a écrit :
| Quote: | <<<<<Can the airplane be reused after a BRS deployment?>>>>>>>
Hi all,
Regarding whole airplane emergency parachutes there are some interresting videos on the BRS web site. One of them shows a RANS S6 deploying its parachute after hitting the tow rope of a glider tow over Gap airfield in south east France.
http://brsparachutes.com/files/brsparachutes/files/cnn_off_air.wmv
On the same video there is a parachute deployment on a Cirrus. They say both the Cirrus and the Rans were back in the air after repair.
Remi Guerner *
*
Salut Rémi,
|
J'ai vu plusieurs de ces vidéos, et j'ai même assisté à un test de BRS, le bonhomme s'en sort mais l'appareil est généralement détruit ce n'est pas forcément visible mais la structure est morte et c'était avec un cessna 152 réputé solide, il est allé directement à la casse.
Généralement la vitesse de descente avoisine les 7 à 8 m/s. Même à 5 m/s l'appareil a de très gros dommages.
Pour obtenir 6 m/s il faut environ 1m² de tissu pour 1kg de charge soit pour un europa à 621 kg au moins 600m² ce qui pèse plus de 50kg,et même à cette vitesse l'appareil est très endommagé
Tout le reste est du marketing relativement bidon.
L'autre solution est le parachute personnel, mais là il faut évacuer l'appareil, car déja sortir d'un Europa en vol stable cela ne doit pas être simple, mais s'il est en mauvaise configuration c'est une autre affaire.
Le parachute sur l'avion reste la solution la meilleure pour sauver sa peau mais surement pas pour sauver l'avion à condition toutefois que le dispositif ait été implanté lors de l'étude de l'appareil intégrant le centrage.
Maintenant compte tenu de l'abaissement lors de la séquence d'ouverture si on vole à 1000ft c'est fichu.
Les tests réalisés par tous les dispositifs le sont à 5000ft.
Mais le rêve du parachute subsiste, la plupart des vidéos sont réalisées avec des ULM ou avions allégés au maximum naturellement.
Personnellement je ne revolerai pas sur un appareil ayant subi un tel impact, car aucun appareil au monde n'est conçu et étudié pour cela.
A+
--
--|--
--------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY
www.aeroelectric.com ([email]mau11(at)free.fr= (And Get Some AWESOME FREE [/email])www.buildersbooks.comhttp://wwwp; tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank">http://www.m" =======
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