 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
davisn
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 12
|
 Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:18 am Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06 |
 |
|
Hi Guys
I'm Norm Davis, recently joined this group. Ex US Navy attack (1954-74),
instructed in SNJ,
T28, AD. Trapped aboard 13 aircraft carriers. Flew A4E in 1969 from USS
Oriskany in Vietnam
(99 missions). Involved in intro of A7E to fleet at NAS Lemoore,
Skippered a new EA6B
squadron (VAQ 136) aboard USS Kitty Hawk 1973. Retired and brought Kiwi
wife and family back
to NZ in 1974.
Since then, been and done a few things. Am now in a syndicate owning a
Yak 52 and drawing upon
my navy experience to check out 18 other syndicate members. Have rated
15 so far. Some have
taken 4 hours, others, 18 hours before they felt ready and I was willing
to let them go.
Am enjoying the challenge and the airplane.
Also enjoying reading the chatter. So, far, I'm gratified to know that
my minimum 6 flight
syllabus has touched on most of what has been discussed.
Am always ready to learn more - that's how we stay alive. Also don't
profess to be an expert.
I have been interested in the discussion about glide ratios and what to
do in the event of
engine failure. Yes, the ratio is 7:1 gear up and 5:1 gear down. And,
yes, it all boils down
to how YOU fly the airplane.
I advise our group to always be aware of the area within a 45° slant
range and be thinking of
what to do in the event of engine failure.
We practice an emergency landing pattern that sets up overhead the
intended point of landing
(1/3 into a field or runway), into the wind at 3,000'AGL.
Close cowl flaps, CAT hot and reduce power to idle, set up optimum glide
at 160kph and turn
for a point downwind abeam the intended point of landing at 1500' AGL.
(Originally tried
1,000AGL at the 180°, but it's too low and hairy).
Turn close aboard and get the gear down by the 180°.
The intended point of landing should be 45° down - sighted even with the
inboard aeleron hinge
at the 180°.
You will be turning with about 40-45° bank, so increase a/s to 170kph.
Aim to be at 1,000AGL
at the 135°, gear down, Flaps UP.
Before the 90° - COUP check (Cowl flaps open, Oil cooler open,
Undercarriage down and Prop
full forward).
| Quote: | From there continue turning to intercept the centreline and keep the
nose down.
|
When you know you got it made, flaps down to land within the first third
of the runway. Keep
the speed to 150kph for flare.
If landing in a field, Gear should be UP.
A few practices using this pattern and you'll soon be a believer!
BTW, every practice landing is to a full stop.
Whenever you do a few circuits to get back up to speed, at least try a
dead stick from
1,000AGL at the 135°.
Get proficient at this and then you'll be ready to fly the same pattern
if you experience a
throttle linkage failure at full throttle. You will be proficient and
will know how to dead
stick it in.
Just a word of warning - normally the gospel is to never go over 30°
bank in an approach. This
is emergency landing practice and if you only use 30° bank you will not
make it dead stick.
You actually lose less altitude in a 180° 45° banked turn then you do at
30° bank. The safety
secret is keep the nose down and don't allow the airspeed to be less
than 160kph.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Norm
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
_________________
Norm Davis, CDR USN ret. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
davisn
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 12
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06 |
|
|
Hi Guys
I'm Norm Davis, recently joined this group. Ex US Navy attack (1954-74),
instructed in SNJ,
T28, AD. Trapped aboard 13 aircraft carriers. Flew A4E in 1969 from USS
Oriskany in Vietnam
(99 missions). Involved in intro of A7E to fleet at NAS Lemoore,
Skippered a new EA6B
squadron (VAQ 136) aboard USS Kitty Hawk 1973. Retired and brought Kiwi
wife and family back
to NZ in 1974.
Since then, been and done a few things. Am now in a syndicate owning a
Yak 52 and drawing upon
my navy experience to check out 18 other syndicate members. Have rated
15 so far. Some have
taken 4 hours, others, 18 hours before they felt ready and I was willing
to let them go.
Am enjoying the challenge and the airplane.
Also enjoying reading the chatter. So, far, I'm gratified to know that
my minimum 6 flight
syllabus has touched on most of what has been discussed.
Am always ready to learn more - that's how we stay alive. Also don't
profess to be an expert.
I have been interested in the discussion about glide ratios and what to
do in the event of
engine failure. Yes, the ratio is 7:1 gear up and 5:1 gear down. And,
yes, it all boils down
to how YOU fly the airplane.
I advise our group to always be aware of the area within a 45° slant
range and be thinking of
what to do in the event of engine failure.
We practice an emergency landing pattern that sets up overhead the
intended point of landing
(1/3 into a field or runway), into the wind at 3,000'AGL.
Close cowl flaps, CAT hot and reduce power to idle, set up optimum glide
at 160kph and turn
for a point downwind abeam the intended point of landing at 1500' AGL.
(Originally tried
1,000AGL at the 180°, but it's too low and hairy).
Turn close aboard and get the gear down by the 180°.
The intended point of landing should be 45° down - sighted even with the
inboard aileron hinge
at the 180°.
You will be turning with about 40-45° bank, so increase a/s to 170kph.
Aim to be at 1,000AGL
at the 135°, gear down, Flaps UP.
Before the 90° - COUP check (Cowl flaps open, Oil cooler open,
Undercarriage down and Prop
full forward).
| Quote: | From there continue turning to intercept the centreline and keep the
nose down.
|
When you know you got it made, flaps down to land within the first third
of the runway. Keep
the speed to 150kph for flare.
If landing in a field, Gear should be UP.
A few practices using this pattern and you'll soon be a believer!
BTW, every practice landing is to a full stop.
Whenever you do a few circuits to get back up to speed, at least try a
dead stick from
1,000AGL at the 135°.
Get proficient at this and then you'll be ready to fly the same pattern
if you experience a
throttle linkage failure at full throttle. You will be proficient and
will know how to dead
stick it in.
Just a word of warning - normally the gospel is to never go over 30°
bank in an approach. This
is emergency landing practice and if you only use 30° bank you will not
make it dead stick.
You actually lose less altitude in a 180° 45° banked turn then you do at
30° bank. The safety
secret is keep the nose down and don't allow the airspeed to be less
than 160kph.
Hope this helps.
Cheers
Norm
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
_________________
Norm Davis, CDR USN ret. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06 |
|
|
Excellent post Norm. I found it quite informative. One very minor point
I'd like to submit for your consideration. With a real engine out (assuming
no oil pressure) moving the prop control full forward makes no difference.
The windmilling prop counterweights will take the prop to full coarse pitch
anyway.
During practice emergency landings with the engine idling, since there is
oil pressure, pull the prop control full aft prior to reducing the power and
continue the emergency landing practice. As you know, with the prop in
coarse pitch/low rpm, there is less drag which equals more gliding distance.
Dennis
---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
davisn
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 12
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06 |
|
|
Roger that, Dennis. I should have emphasized the word practice. For a real emergency, pull the prop back. But, for practice, by the 90°, push it forward - just in case you find you need to go around.
Cheers
Norm
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cdustercc
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 10
Location: Hertford, NC
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06 |
|
|
Just curious why you teach landing in a field with the gear up. Isn't NZ largely livestock production with fields for grazing or hay?
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
davisn
Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 12
|
| Posted: Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06 |
|
|
It's really a judgement call based on assessment of field size, irrigation dikes, fence lines, etc. many may look smooth from altitude, but are pretty rough when close. Also this is a mountainous country.
When landing gear up, there is less chance of tipping over and the gear still protrudes below the wing.
The other judgement call is whether or not to open the canopy. In a rough landing it might slam shut and jam - if already closed it might be easier to open post touch down.
Cheer
Norm
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 3:36 am Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06 |
|
|
The Russian manual also states it is recommended to land with the gear up.
Landing on unimproved or unprepared fields which may have ruts or pot holes
could be quite serious. Should one of the wheels encounter them, it may
cause the airplane to flip causing much more damage, including to yourself,
than with the gear up.
Dennis
---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
viperdoc(at)mindspring.co
Guest
|
| Posted: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:13 am Post subject: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06 |
|
|
Well seems we have had this tread before. I got soundly thrashed about the
head and shoulders for suggesting that a CJ driver that landed in a corn
field barely missing an unseen pond or ditch (what ever) bring his bird to
a stop on plowed earth with his gear down was maybe not the best thing to
do. I stated he was lucky and the Russian Manuel calls for retracting or
keeping the gear retracted so as to land gear up on uprepaired surfaces.
The reason being, the center of gravity is lowered lessoning the chance of
flipping the aircraft on its back crushing the "little pointy heads" of
it's occupants. The last time I looked the 52, 50 and CJ did not come with
factory installed roll bars.
Just ask a couple of Aerocoup drivers that had an off field night landing
in what they knew was an open farming field behind a prison near the
airport here at Wetumpka, Al. Seems the dead motor was not going to get
them to the airport so the chose to land in a known area or at least that
is what they thought was known. Seems the prison farm detail had plowed
more of the field than expected. The first 100 yards were fine nice and
firm. It was that little dip into the soft dirt that got them a ride over
onto their back. The tail did keep them from completely being crushed. Both
survived. The right seater was unconscious for a ? period of time, had
raccoon eyes and generally looked like hell but had a uneventful recovery.
The left seater may or may not have been momentarily unconscious but did
escape through the rear canopy after kicking it out. He could not pull the
right seater out though because the aircraft was basically resting on his
side. The left seater began to developed headaches and double vision about
a week later. CT scan revealed he had a subdural hematoma. This was
surgically drained and he has had a full recovery.
But guess what, he is now grounded for up to 2 years. He has to undergo
serial EEGs, a cerebral angiogram and serial CT/ MRI's to document no
recurrence of the bleed, no ectopic seizure foci, or subsequent loss of
neural tissue from the coup counter coup brain injury. See, the force it
takes to tear blood vessel at the base of the brain also causes the brain
to squished against the skull as the head moves forward onto an unmovable
object. First that squish occurs as it stops moving forward in its watery
bath (known as cerebrospinal fluid) when it slams to a stop on the for head
portion of the skull. It then rebounds backward until it slams to a stop on
the occipital portion of the skull ( the back of the head). This creates a
nice bruise on the front and back parts of the cerebral cortex (the top
half of the brain). This can also occur when you hit the side of your head,
only now it is temporal to temporal motion. All kind of like bouncing a
ball.
Saying all this, for me it is a helmet and gear up if I have to land off
field. It is not worth the risk (for me that is). It is your choice and
your call. I have just stated what the FAA Medical Policy is on this
subject. If you are a military aviator (AF for sure and I am not sure about
Army or Navy, but probably very close), a subdural hematoma guarantees
permanent disqualification.
So to quote Clint Eastwood, "You feeling lucky, punk?" I am not saying you
may not end up on your back anyway, but the chances are less with the gear
retracted. That is all. Your choice and your call.
Doc
| Quote: | [Original Message]
From: A. Dennis Savarese <dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com>
To: <yak-list(at)matronics.com>
Date: 4/10/2006 6:43:12 AM
Subject: Re: Re: Yak-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 04/07/06
<dsavarese(at)elmore.rr.com>
|
| Quote: |
The Russian manual also states it is recommended to land with the gear
up.
|
| Quote: | Landing on unimproved or unprepared fields which may have ruts or pot
holes
|
| Quote: | could be quite serious. Should one of the wheels encounter them, it may
cause the airplane to flip causing much more damage, including to
yourself,
|
[quote] than with the gear up.
Dennis
---
| | - The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
