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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
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 Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
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I learned something about 48 years ago about fuel on board. The guy that
taught to fly me was a WWII fighter pilot, European Theatre. He opined that
he never did mind flying on half a tank of fuel, as long as it was the top
half. I feel the same way. Fuel in the storage tank at the airport,
altitude above you, and runway behind you can't help you much.
John Hart
KF IV, NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 5:28 pm Post subject: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
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Maybe it's time to look at fuel management from a different view, not
from 48 years ago. Here's an excerpt from John Deakin's article (I
took the liberty of inserting the explanation of OWT's)
**********************
Fuel Management
I'd like to take a look at fuel management, and since my method
sometimes calls for running a tank dry, let's get that out of the way
first.
OWTs (Old Wives Tales)
I hate OWTs. There are new ones, and there are old ones, and they
seem to have a life of their own, with no way to kill them. "Beware
the downwind turn," "never turn into the dead engine," and "don't run
lean of peak" are all so silly, yet they persist, even among people
who should know better. Other stupidities are "The only time you have
too much fuel is when you're on fire," "the three most useless things
in aviation are runway behind you, fuel in the truck, and altitude
above you" (or variations on that theme), and the endless inane
argument over whether pitch controls speed or altitude. I hope to
shoot at some of those in future columns.
******************************************
I happen to be one of those hippies that carried the bumper sticker
"Question Authority" on their car, so I am the perfect candidate to
listen to a different view about these "old wives tales", even if it
means making a mistake every now and again.
I appreciate what wisdom has come since aviation began, but sometimes
it's nice to listen to a fresh voice about some of these long-held
pearls of wisdom. Aviation would never had made it this far if we'd
always listened to, and followed, the "safe" advice.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 20, 2009, at 7:29 PM, John W. Hart wrote:
| Quote: |
<helili(at)chahtatushka.net>
I learned something about 48 years ago about fuel on board. The
guy that
taught to fly me was a WWII fighter pilot, European Theatre. He
opined that
he never did mind flying on half a tank of fuel, as long as it was
the top
half. I feel the same way. Fuel in the storage tank at the airport,
altitude above you, and runway behind you can't help you much.
John Hart
KF IV, NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Pat Reilly
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345
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| Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:25 pm Post subject: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
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Lynn, The Hell with not being inefficient by carring a few extra #'s of
fuel. The only time you have too much gas in an airplane is when it's on
fire!
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote] A valuable cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to tell it
until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that was your intent
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:26 am Post subject: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
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(Here we go, regurgitating the Old Wives Tales.....)
Or possibly when you're trying to get into that short little field
because something else went wrong with the plane and you NEED to
land...and just maybe that extra 100 pounds of extra fuel MIGHT just
make a difference in getting it stopped. Or maybe that extra 100
pounds of fuel makes the difference of getting over the "fence" while
taking off.
Yeah, I'm throwing out some pretty "iffy" what-if's, but like the man
(John Deakin) said: "we're trying to have a little fun here, poke a
few holes in some egos, puncture a few OWTs (Old Wives Tales), and
with luck, maybe exercise a few brain cells.
I think the latter part of the statement....." maybe exercise a few
brain cells" is the operative phrase that I came away with. Yes, I
didn't exercise a few brain cells when I ran out of fuel, but that
was from getting so involved in the flight that I went beyond the
range that I had available. Could happen to anybody, and not just
involving fuel.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:21 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
| Quote: | Lynn, The Hell with not being inefficient by carring a few extra
#'s of fuel. The only time you have too much gas in an airplane is
when it's on fire!
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com>
wrote:
A valuable cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to
tell it until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that
was your intent. 
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
do not archive
--- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 2:02 PM
I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but
can't keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under
the heading of practice, it was a real world situation.
I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change
my oil at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8
gallons exactly...enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my
recent 3.0--3.8 gph. I took off and headed north, thinking of doing
a half-hour in each of four directions, and being near home when
the 2 hours were up. It was great flying weather, and it was mostly
hands off flying. I kept checking my Northstar fuel flow gauge for
remaining fuel and also checking the sight gauges in the
wings...plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and adequate,
according to the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my time
allotment, I saw B25, an airport just into Indiana from the
Michigan state line. I was curious about this airport, so I circled
the field a couple of times trying to see if there was a building
large enough for a B-25 plane, or if one was sitting outside.
Seeing nothing along those lines, I figured I'd better head for
home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown in this
direction for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in
the sights, when I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which
was brightly lit. My clear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank
was empty, so I knew I was in deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on
my GPS and saw Williams County (0G6) as the closest airport. This
airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, and 13 miles away from my
(then) present location. The engine was still running, and I was at
about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and hoped for
the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered
about 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the
plane to allow the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make
the airport, which meant "quit screwing around with the fuel and
streamline the plane for best glide". Now I *really* started to
look for fields. I could tell that I didn't want to try to stretch
the glide, because this would put me...possibly...right over Bryan,
Ohio, and that was not appealing at all. I'd covered maybe another
mile when I saw a long green stretch of land between all the brown
fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my self that this
was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and started to
slip down toward it. The wind was from about 220° and this strip of
green was running 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try
landing into the wind because that would have eaten up too much
altitude. So here I was slipping it down to the west end of this
"soon-to-become airport" at a pretty good clip, and finally had to
straighten it out and put it down. When it finally touched down, I
was going pretty damn fast, and got all over the brakes and it
pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that
straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane
getting too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that
high before on the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to
turn it into the beans to arrest the speed if I got much closer to
the road which was coming up fast. Man, stuff was going by fast and
the road was getting bigger, when it finally slowed enough to drop
the tail. When I got out and looked around, I saw a plywood sign in
the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long building that
looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-life
airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God )
grass. (I later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the
locals) There was nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a
nice man from 0G6 came out with fuel....he knew exactly where I had
landed. I'll quit the story there because that was the important
part...the landing and getting the fuel so I could continue home.
All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is
( in my opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although
try to do it when you already have the airport in sight, and try to
do it into a headwind, not with a tailwind like I was forced to do.
I also didn't have my goggles nor any hearing protection, which
would have been nice to block out the screams coming from the cabin.
By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges
more than the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those
sight gauges, giving a false sense of more fuel than is actually
there. And I had set the "GAS" reading on the Northstar to read 24
gallons when I had filled it the last time, not taking into account
the unusable fuel. When I was circling over B25, I had the right
wing up, and this was forcing the right tank to empty, and the left
tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for home, the right
tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet time to
re-supply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under
"GAS" after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the
plane is rock steady.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a
real world engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long
runway, have your tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a
quick check. Of course, it's best to announce intentions, wear
goggles, hearing protection, inform fire department... 
= --> http:========================
arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://
forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
www.matronics.com/contribution _-
============================================================
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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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helili(at)chahtatushka.ne
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 4:37 am Post subject: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
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You and anyone else are certainly entitled to your opinions and theories
pertaining to flying. I think I'll stick to mine. In the 48 years I have
been flying, I have never been forced to land due to low or no fuel, or
weather, nor have I ever broken an aircraft. I've had a few shot down, but
don't accept responsibility for folks putting bullet holes in them. In my
flying career, I flew as a military pilot for 26 years, and 10 years after
that in the Alaska bush, accumulated several thousand hours in both rotary
and fixed wing aircraft, and I've seen quite a number of aircrew members,
both military and civilian, perish because they made a decision that
resulted in an unfavorable outcome. I just ain't no bold pilot.
John Hart
KF IV, NSI Subaru
Wilburton, OK
--
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matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:25 am Post subject: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
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Hey all,
I've read a lot of threads here about fuel problems with the header-tank
system in what seems to be most Kitfoxes out there. I have a Model 2 with a
9.6 gallon main tank behind the panel and a 6 gallon reserve tank in the
starboard wing and it seems to me that system avoids all of these problems.
There is no unusable fuel - the main tank is funnel shaped and drains down
to the last drop. I have a low fuel indicator light from a float in the main
tank - when it lights up I know there is enough room to dump the 6 reserve
gallons in, and if I have already dumped the reserve then I know I should
land within an hour. On short flights I also can be careless with how much
is in the main tank, I like to fly light like Lynn, but I keep a gallon or
so in the wing tank which is light enough to not interfere with wing folding
and could save my bacon if the main tank runs dry. The biggest issue is
remembering to dump that reserve fuel into the main tank every few weeks and
put in a fresh gallon.
So what's wrong with that "old" system? Why did Kitfox switch to the header
tank and all the problems associated with it? I know panel space was a
problem but with my LCD engine monitoring system I have a spare hole in the
panel that I am looking to fill and most other slots hold redundant
instruments for safety.
Bob Brennan - N717GB
ELSA Repairman, inspection rated
1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger
Rotax 582 with 3 blade GSC prop
Wrightsville Pa
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Tom Jones
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 752
Location: Ellensburg, WA
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:13 am Post subject: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
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| Quote: | So what's wrong with that "old" system? Why did Kitfox switch to the header
tank and all the problems associated with it? I know panel space was a
problem but with my LCD engine monitoring system I have a spare hole in the
panel that I am looking to fill and most other slots hold redundant
instruments for safety. |
Bob, I have the same fuel system and like being able to see the fuel remaining.
My opinion is people do want more panel space. Also, the biggest objection I think is being able to see all that gas sitting in your lap. A lot of planes have a panel tank but in most you can't see the gas so they don't think about it.
The DAR that inspected my plane commented about an experience he had in a J3 Cub. He was flying along and for some reason was messing with something under the panel. he didn't know the fuel tank was almost rusted through until he stuck his finger through the bottom of it.
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_________________
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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Pat Reilly
Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 345
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:34 am Post subject: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
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|
Lynn, How you gonna get an "extra" 100# of fuel on board a Kitfox?
do not archive
Pat
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:
[quote] --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>
(Here we go, regurgitating the Old Wives Tales.....)
Or possibly when you're trying to get into that short little field because something else went wrong with the plane and you NEED to land...and just maybe that extra 100 pounds of extra fuel MIGHT just make a difference in getting it stopped. Or maybe that extra 100 pounds of fuel makes the difference of getting over the "fence" while taking off.
Yeah, I'm throwing out some pretty "iffy" what-if's, but like the man (John Deakin) said: "we're trying to have a little fun here, poke a few holes in some egos, puncture a few OWTs (Old Wives Tales), and with luck, maybe exercise a few brain cells.
I think the latter part of the statement....." maybe exercise a few brain cells" is the operative phrase that I came away with. Yes, I didn't exercise a few brain cells when I ran out of fuel, but that was from getting so involved in the flight that I went beyond the range that I had available. Could happen to anybody, and not just involving fuel.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:21 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
| Quote: |
Lynn, The Hell with not being inefficient by carring a few extra #'s of fuel. The only time you have too much gas in an airplane is when it's on fire!
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com (msm_9949(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
A valuable cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to tell it until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that was your intent.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
do not archive
--- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>
Subject: Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com (kitfox-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 2:02 PM
--> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net (lynnmatt(at)jps.net)>
I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but can't keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under the heading of practice, it was a real world situation.
I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change my oil at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8 gallons exactly..enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my recent 3.0--3.8 gph. I took off and headed north, thinking of doing a half-hour in each of four directions, and being near home when the 2 hours were up. It was great flying weather, and it was mostly hands off flying. I kept checking my Northstar fuel flow gauge for remaining fuel and also checking the sight gauges in the wings...plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and adequate, according to the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my time allotment, I saw B25, an airport just into Indiana from the Michigan state line. I was curious about this airport, so I circled the field a couple of times trying to see if there was a building large enough for a B-25 plane, or if one was sitting outside. Seeing nothing along those lines, I figured I'd better head for home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown in this direction for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in the sights, when I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which was brightly lit. My clear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank was empty, so I knew I was in deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on my GPS and saw Williams County (0G6) as the closest airport. This airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, and 13 miles away from my (then) present location. The engine was still running, and I was at about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and hoped for the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered about 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the plane to allow the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make the airport, which meant "quit screwing around with the fuel and streamline the plane for best glide". Now I *really* started to look for fields. I could tell that I didn't want to try to stretch the glide, because this would put me..possibly...right over Bryan, Ohio, and that was not appealing at all. I'd covered maybe another mile when I saw a long green stretch of land between all the brown fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my self that this was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and started to slip down toward it. The wind was from about 220° and this strip of green was running 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try landing into the wind because that would have eaten up too much altitude. So here I was slipping it down to the west end of this "soon-to-become airport" at a pretty good clip, and finally had to straighten it out and put it down. When it finally touched down, I was going pretty damn fast, and got all over the brakes and it pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane getting too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that high before on the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to turn it into the beans to arrest the speed if I got much closer to the road which was coming up fast. Man, stuff was going by fast and the road was getting bigger, when it finally slowed enough to drop the tail. When I got out and looked around, I saw a plywood sign in the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long building that looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-life airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God ) grass. (I later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the locals) There was nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a nice man from 0G6 came out with fuel....he knew exactly where I had landed. I'll quit the story there because that was the important part...the landing and getting the fuel so I could continue home.
All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is ( in my opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although try to do it when you already have the airport in sight, and try to do it into a headwind, not with a tailwind like I was forced to do. I also didn't have my goggles nor any hearing protection, which would have been nice to block out the screams coming from the cabin.
By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges more than the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those sight gauges, giving a false sense of more fuel than is actually there. And I had set the "GAS" reading on the Northstar to read 24 gallons when I had filled it the last time, not taking into account the unusable fuel. When I was circling over B25, I had the right wing up, and this was forcing the right tank to empty, and the left tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for home, the right tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet time to re-supply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under "GAS" after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the plane is rock steady.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
| Quote: | However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a real world engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long runway, have your tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a quick check. Of course, it's best to announce intentions, wear goggles, hearing protection, inform fire department...
= --> http:========================
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arget="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List ttp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
www======================
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as List Un/Subscription,
www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List
ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:20 am Post subject: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow |
|
|
6 lbs (1 gallon of fuel) times 16-2/3 gallons= 100 lbs. I have two 13-
gallon tanks...one in each wing, plus a header tank of about 1-gallon
capacity. If I fill both tanks that's 156 lbs of fuel, and I'll leave
the header tank out of this. 56 lbs of fuel would be 9-1/3 gallons.
I'm sure that there are those of us...me at least...that have flown
with 9 gallons of fuel left in their plane. You may not want to start
a trip with only 9 gallons aboard, but I'll bet you've landed with
only 9 gallons left at one time or another, so it's possible to fly
the plane and then land and pour in "an extra 100 lbs of fuel".
In fact, didn't some early Kitfox's have ONLY a 6-gallon tank....and
a gas-guzzling 2-stroke to boot? Naturally I would not suggest anyone
fly one of those planes without filling at each and every landing.
All I'm suggesting is that for local trips around the patch, flying
to the local $100 'burger joint, or just flying for an hour in the
evening, it is not necessary...for me...to fly with FULL tanks every
time I take off, IF you have two 13-gallon tanks. You have to do the
math, and see if you NEED to lug all that fuel with you. My mistake
the other day was to note that I had fuel enough for two hours....by
actual testing of my planes' capacity...and then go brain dead and
not realize that the two hours was up. When I made my cross-country
trip to California, I filled every time I made the last landing of
the day, and on some days, I had to make an intermediate filling.
When I got into high density altitude conditions, I had to calculate
whether or not I wanted to fill up or fly light, get over the ridge,
whatever, and then fill again when I was into "flatlands" with
numerous fueling stations. To me, it was a matter of doing some math,
and keeping the plane set up for the conditions ahead.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 21, 2009, at 10:28 AM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
| Quote: | Lynn, How you gonna get an "extra" 100# of fuel on board a Kitfox?
do not archive
Pat
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:24 AM, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
wrote:
(Here we go, regurgitating the Old Wives Tales.....)
Or possibly when you're trying to get into that short little field
because something else went wrong with the plane and you NEED to
land...and just maybe that extra 100 pounds of extra fuel MIGHT
just make a difference in getting it stopped. Or maybe that extra
100 pounds of fuel makes the difference of getting over the "fence"
while taking off.
Yeah, I'm throwing out some pretty "iffy" what-if's, but like the
man (John Deakin) said: "we're trying to have a little fun here,
poke a few holes in some egos, puncture a few OWTs (Old Wives
Tales), and with luck, maybe exercise a few brain cells.
I think the latter part of the statement....." maybe exercise a few
brain cells" is the operative phrase that I came away with. Yes, I
didn't exercise a few brain cells when I ran out of fuel, but that
was from getting so involved in the flight that I went beyond the
range that I had available. Could happen to anybody, and not just
involving fuel.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 801.4 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--199 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:21 PM, Patrick Reilly wrote:
Lynn, The Hell with not being inefficient by carring a few extra
#'s of fuel. The only time you have too much gas in an airplane is
when it's on fire!
Pat Reilly
Mod 3 582 Rebuild
Rockford, IL
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 8:01 PM, Marco Menezes <msm_9949(at)yahoo.com>
wrote:
A valuable cautionary tale Lynn. Thanks. Why did you hesitate to
tell it until now? Afterall, it wasn't "off-airport" even if that
was your intent.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1 w/clutch
do not archive
--- On Mon, 10/19/09, Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net> wrote:
From: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
Subject: Re: Re: jetting a 582 and a choped elbow
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Monday, October 19, 2009, 2:02 PM
I've been keeping this little incident a secret up until now, but
can't keep my mouth shut any longer. While this doesn't come under
the heading of practice, it was a real world situation.
I needed 2 hours of flight a couple of weeks ago, so I could change
my oil at my chosen time of 25 hours. I checked the fuel....8
gallons exactly...enough for a conservative 2 hour flight at my
recent 3.0--3.8 gph. I took off and headed north, thinking of doing
a half-hour in each of four directions, and being near home when
the 2 hours were up. It was great flying weather, and it was mostly
hands off flying. I kept checking my Northstar fuel flow gauge for
remaining fuel and also checking the sight gauges in the
wings...plenty of fuel according to the sight gauges, and adequate,
according to the Northstar gauge. Getting near the end of my time
allotment, I saw B25, an airport just into Indiana from the
Michigan state line. I was curious about this airport, so I circled
the field a couple of times trying to see if there was a building
large enough for a B-25 plane, or if one was sitting outside.
Seeing nothing along those lines, I figured I'd better head for
home, and turned toward the northeast. I had flown in this
direction for about 3 minutes, still looking outside and taking in
the sights, when I caught sight of my low fuel warning light which
was brightly lit. My clear vent line up to the right-hand fuel tank
was empty, so I knew I was in deep do-do. I hit the NRST button on
my GPS and saw Williams County (0G6) as the closest airport. This
airport is just east of Bryan, Ohio, and 13 miles away from my
(then) present location. The engine was still running, and I was at
about 4,000 feet MSL. I pointed it in that direction, and hoped for
the best, all the while looking for a place to land. I had covered
about 7 miles when the engine stopped. I had tried to position the
plane to allow the fuel to get to the port, but also hoping to make
the airport, which meant "quit screwing around with the fuel and
streamline the plane for best glide". Now I *really* started to
look for fields. I could tell that I didn't want to try to stretch
the glide, because this would put me...possibly...right over Bryan,
Ohio, and that was not appealing at all. I'd covered maybe another
mile when I saw a long green stretch of land between all the brown
fields of beans growing in the area. I said to my self that this
was gonna become an airport in the next few minutes, and started to
slip down toward it. The wind was from about 220° and this strip of
green was running 9-27. I was north of it, and I didn't want to try
landing into the wind because that would have eaten up too much
altitude. So here I was slipping it down to the west end of this
"soon-to-become airport" at a pretty good clip, and finally had to
straighten it out and put it down. When it finally touched down, I
was going pretty damn fast, and got all over the brakes and it
pulled to the right and headed for the beans. I got that
straightened out and kept braking hard, with the nose of the plane
getting too damn close to the ground...I'd never had the tail that
high before on the ground, and I was pretty sure that I'd have to
turn it into the beans to arrest the speed if I got much closer to
the road which was coming up fast. Man, stuff was going by fast and
the road was getting bigger, when it finally slowed enough to drop
the tail. When I got out and looked around, I saw a plywood sign in
the shape of an airplane, a wind sock, and a long building that
looked like a series of hangars. I had landed at an real-life
airport, complete with porta-potty and way too-long (thank God )
grass. (I later found out that this is called "Al's Place", by the
locals) There was nobody at this airport, but I made a call and a
nice man from 0G6 came out with fuel....he knew exactly where I had
landed. I'll quit the story there because that was the important
part...the landing and getting the fuel so I could continue home.
All this is to point out that what Deke mentioned is true....it is
( in my opinion) excellent practice to do what he said, although
try to do it when you already have the airport in sight, and try to
do it into a headwind, not with a tailwind like I was forced to do.
I also didn't have my goggles nor any hearing protection, which
would have been nice to block out the screams coming from the cabin.
By the way, what got me messed up was relying on the sight gauges
more than the Northstar gauge. The fuel splashes up into those
sight gauges, giving a false sense of more fuel than is actually
there. And I had set the "GAS" reading on the Northstar to read 24
gallons when I had filled it the last time, not taking into account
the unusable fuel. When I was circling over B25, I had the right
wing up, and this was forcing the right tank to empty, and the left
tank to unport. When I leveled off and headed for home, the right
tank was empty, and the left tank was taking its own sweet time to
re-supply the header tank with fuel, if indeed it had any to offer.
I've since then only entered 20 gallons into the Northstar under
"GAS" after a fill-up, and only trust the sight gauges when the
plane is rock steady.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 800.0 hrs
Countdown to 1000 hrs--200 to go
Sensenich 62"x46" Wood prop
Electroair direct-fire ignition system
Rotec TBI-40 injection
Status: flying (and learning)
do not archive
On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:56 AM, fox5flyer wrote:
> However, I still see no great risk why one couldn't practice a
real world engine out by shutting down on downwind with a good long
runway, have your tools ready, pull over off to the side and do a
quick check. Of course, it's best to announce intentions, wear
goggles, hearing protection, inform fire department...
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