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rudder trim tab
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propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:00 pm Post subject: rudder trim tab

Lynn,



you are correct, in US you are correct, in other countrys it is correct to 

say course, true course and stearing course.



in marine navigation heading is seldome used.



http://www.sailingissues.com/navcourse1.html



Glossary

  a.. Maps with isogonic lines:

  World - overview 2000

  World - detailed 2000

  World - detailed 2005

  World - animated in timeVariation: The angle between the magnetic north 

pole and the geographic north pole. Also called the magnetic declination.

  b.. Secular variation: The change of magnetic declination in time with 

respect to both strength and direction of its magnetic field.

  c.. West (-) , East (+): Western variations or deviations are designated 

with a negative sign by convention due to the compass card's clockwise 

direction.

  d.. Deviation: The error in compass heading caused by electric magnetic 

currents and or metal objects.

  e.. Deviation table: A table containing deviations in degrees versus the 

ship's heading (compass course) in degrees. Usually plotted in a graph.

  f.. True course: Course plotted in the chart i.e. course over the ground 

or "course made good". The course corrected for compass errors.

  g.. Compass course: The course (ship's heading) without the correction for 

compass errors.

  h.. cc + var + dev = tc: This equation shows the connection between the 

compass course, its errors and the true course. It can also be read as: tc - 

var = cc + dev.

---

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Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 1:48 pm Post subject: rudder trim tab

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net] 

 I think heading is the direction that the plane is headed (duh!), and  

 course is the intended flight path.


	


I believe it is, Lynn, on your side of the big pond.



But the Royal Air Force Air Navigation published by the Air Ministry May 1944 says in Chapter One, page 15, paragraph 25, and I quote:

- The direction in which an aircraft is heading is called its Course.



Then, same page, paragraph 26:

- The direction of the path of an aircraft over the Earth is called its track.



Mind you, this is something I have been discussing with aviators and mariners for years and they mostly agree with you. But the R.A.F. doesn't. Terribly sorry, old chap! 



Cheers,

Michel Verheughe

Norway

Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200



Do not archive



<pre><b><font size  color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">

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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:39 pm Post subject: rudder trim tab

Many airplanes are designed to have the vertical stab offset so the prop wash won’t skew the plane...  in out planes we have the possibility of changing from a left turning 582 to a right turning 912 so the factory not knowing what we will install can only set the vert stab straight.  That means to me at least that some sort of tab is going to be necessary.  

   

noel  

       

From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of KITFOXZ(at)aol.com

 Sent: 19 May 2009 12:07 AM

 To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Re: rudder trim tab  

  

  

     

Lynn, Lowell and Mike, others lurking,  

    

   

    

I didn't mean to condemn trim tabs and especially cockpit controlled trim tabs.  The point I was hoping to make is that I feel the emphasis should be on building a good airframe that is straight and true.  I don't want to have a bird that is all bent up and those imperfections compensated for with hairy items hanging off of every control surface.    

    

   

    

These are harsh sounding words I know.  I am just trying to make the point with exaggerations.  Engine torque is proportional to power setting and so is the resultant yaw.  I want to cancel it immediately at it's source with engine thrust line offset.  Washers, shims, another engine mount perhaps, are the cleaner ways to make an airplane fly straight.  What I want to accomplish is a glide that is straight and true first and then do what has to be done to make the engine pull it in as straight of a path as can be done even with the imperfections of that rotating, torque inducing, P factor producing, wind mill out in front.  

    

   

    

Of course a cockpit controlled trim tab is used for cross wind trim and elevator trim is used for load CG variations.  But, to permanently bend a control surface to make up for a faulty thrust line is wrong I feel.  If your car has a front end alignment problem, do you alter the rear axle alignment to make it go down the road straight?  --Albeit in a crab angle?   

    

   

    

I love this forum because there are so many points of view that can get aired.  Dead horses are beaten.  Feelings are even stepped on but, when it all is tallied up some do and don't are discovered.  Some best practices are established and airplanes end up flying.   

    

   

    

Got to turn in for the night.  

    

   

    

John  

    

   

    

John P. Marzluf  

    

Columbus, Ohio  

    

Outback (out back in the garage)   

    

   

      

In a message dated 5/18/2009 9:44:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, orcabonita(at)hotmail.com writes:  

   	  Quote: 	
		    

--> Kitfox-List message posted by: "JetPilot" <orcabonita(at)hotmail.com>

 

 There is nothing wrong with trim tabs.  All sorts of much more advanced and high performance aircraft use trim tabs.   Johns washer idea is a good one, but I doubt it will be enough, and even when you get close to correct, you will still probably get yaw changes with power, which is exactly why many manufactured aircraft have rudder trim.  Even modern jet airliners have rudder trim... The theory of building a perfectly straight airplane is good and something to strive for, but the reality is that you will still probably need a trim tab in the end.  An electric adjustable rudder tab is even better...

 

 Mike

 

 --------

 &quot;NO FEAR&quot; -  If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

 

 Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

 

 

 

 

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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: rudder trim tab

Michel,



Have you got your license back?



Jan

---

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propellerdesign(at)tele2.
Guest

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:07 am Post subject: rudder trim tab

A trim tab is something between 5 to 10% in size of  the movable ruder (or elevator) area behind the hinge line.

  

 engine offset 1-2 degree normally, more on slow  airplane less on fast plane.

  

 Jan

 [quote]   ---

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Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:08 am Post subject: rudder trim tab

Blimey! You mean to say, old boy, that the R.A.F. and the rest of the  

world are not in agreement? Stop the presses, it's time to re-write  

the History books. Shiver me timbers, mon ami, we'll just have to  

agree to disagree. (How's that for a bit of mixed language metaphors,  

or something....?)

A GPS sure takes a lot of the mystery out of flying, doesn't it? Pick  

a spot to go to....climb up to your favorite altitude, and follow the  

yellow brick...ooops, make that follow the pink line 'til it says  

you're there. I love figuring out all the different angles, wind  

speeds, headings, and courses, but when you just want to go someplace  

for the joy of flying, nothing beats following the pink line, and of  

course (there's that word again) following your progress with an  

Aeronautical Chart.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 656.1 hrs

Sensenich 62x46 Wood prop

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive

On May 19, 2009, at 5:44 PM, Michel Verheughe wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

> I think heading is the direction that the plane is headed (duh!), and

> course is the intended flight path.

 I believe it is, Lynn, on your side of the big pond.

 But the Royal Air Force Air Navigation published by the Air  

 Ministry May 1944 says in Chapter One, page 15, paragraph 25, and I  

 quote:

 - The direction in which an aircraft is heading is called its Course.

 Then, same page, paragraph 26:

 - The direction of the path of an aircraft over the Earth is called  

 its track.

 Mind you, this is something I have been discussing with aviators  

 and mariners for years and they mostly agree with you. But the  

 R.A.F. doesn't. Terribly sorry, old chap! 

 Cheers,

 Michel Verheughe

 Norway

 Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

 Do not archive

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 List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kitfox-List</a>

 forums.matronics.com</a>

 www.matronics.com/contribution</a>

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_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Michel

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 966
Location: Norway

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 2:49 am Post subject: rudder trim tab

 	  Quote: 	
		   From: Lynn Matteson [lynnmatt(at)jps.net]

 A GPS sure takes a lot of the mystery out of flying, doesn't it?


	


Yep, and I think we can conclude this way, Lynn: We can thank the Yanks for making the GPS and the Brits for making ... the English language! 



Cheers,

Michel



Do not archive



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_________________
Kitfox 3 - Jabiru 2200

Float Flyr

Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland

Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 1:11 pm Post subject: rudder trim tab

Me, I love DR.  Give me a chart and a whiz wheel and I'll have fun...

Yes I do have a GPS but to be honest with the restricted range (three hours)

of the Kitfox it's use hasn't been necessary... yet.



Noel



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_________________
Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats

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