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Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 9:47 am Post subject: gear weight

Same here, but the humor didn't come through.   Tone is difficult in emails.  

 Please... do not archive

 Deke

 Storm coming in NE MI

  

 [quote]   ---

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:52 am Post subject: gear weight

Off topic:

  I wonder how much longer phrases like "carbon copy" will be around?  

Also, "clockwise" and "counter-clockwise"   (whaddya mean,  

clockwise?...mine just blinks "12:00" : )



Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger

Jabiru 2200, #2062, 610 hrs

Sensenich 62x46

Electroair direct-fire ignition system

Status: flying

do not archive



On Mar 8, 2009, at 12:13 PM, fox5flyer wrote:



[quote] My mistake for poor use of cliché terms.  Maybe, "close copy" would  

 have worked better?

 Deke

 do not archive



 ---

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

Paul A. Franz, P.E.

Joined: 02 Dec 2008
Posts: 280
Location: Bellevue WA

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:57 am Post subject: gear weight

On Sun, March 8, 2009 9:46 am, fox5flyer wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Same here, but the humor didn't come through.  Tone is difficult in emails.

 Please... do not archive

 Deke

 Storm coming in NE MI


	


Deke,



Who do you think is listening to "do not archive"? Maybe some archive I don't know about?



It certainly doesn't block the posting or archiving on Matronics:



<http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=55884&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start >



Is this a carry over from when Don was running the list? I don't believe appending "do

not archive" to a list posting does anything at all that I know of.



-- 

Paul Franz

425.440.9505 (O)

425.241.1618 (C)

_________________
Paul A. Franz, P.E.
Registration/Aircraft - N14UW/Merlin GT
Engine/Prop - Rotax 914/NSI CAP
Bellevue WA
425.241.1618 Cell
425.440.9505 Office

matronics(at)bob.brennan.
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:47 pm Post subject: gear weight

 	  Quote: 	
		  From the Matronics Kitfox List FAQ:


	


      *****************************************

      *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***

      *****************************************

      

         At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only

to a very 

         small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish

to archive 

         it.  In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in

the 

         message:

      

                       do not archive

      

         Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent

to List 

         email distribution as normal.

      

I tried searching for "do not archive" in the archive but the search engine

does not seem capable of matching 3 words in sequence. I personally always

assumed that an email marked with "do not archive" is distributed via email

and listed in the most recent posts, but then automatically discarded at

some point as the message is added to the archives. 



Being anal<g>, and an engineer (no points to the first that say that's

redundant), I am including the word donotarchivethis which does not as yet

exist anywhere in the list, just for sh*ts and grins...



Bob Brennan - N717GB

ELSA Repairman, inspection rated

1991 UK Model 2 ELSA Kitfox taildragger

Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop

Wrightsville Pa 

--

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 1:04 pm Post subject: gear weight

Paul, click the link below and look about 1/3 the way down the page to the



*****************************************

      *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***

      *****************************************



http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Kitfox-List.htm

---

jcrowder(at)lpbroadband.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:42 pm Post subject: gear weight

I just returned to Colorado and am catching up on my email.  I have the

original aluminum gear from Skystar on my Model 5.  It is taller than the

Grove gear now sold.  I am told it was somewhat heavier and designed to meet

drop test which is a part of the requirement for certificated aircraft.  I

was also told at that time they were working toward possible certification

of a version of the Model 5.  This was from the grapevine and discussed on

the List at that time.  If the archives go back that far, there will be

threads of this.  In any case this was the first issue of aluminum spring

gear and shipped with the early Model 5's.



Jim Crowder



[quote] --

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 3:54 pm Post subject: gear weight

Deke,



I believe your gear is Grove.  I recall a friend that had the taller thinner 

gear and it was grove,  I think it was an early version.  I found a picture 

of his airplane, (attached) and it was powered, incidentally, by a Franklin 

engine.  He lives in Marin County, norht of San Francisco.



Lowell



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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:22 pm Post subject: gear weight

This is interesting to me - the alloy change.  I wonder if it is a good 

thing.  I bought the Hammerhead gear and installed it on my Model IV.  My 

understanding is that Hammerhead used 7075 T6 and Grove used a different 

alloy - I can only guess, so won't.  This was from a conversation with 

Hammerhead in 2001 or 2 based on fotos of my airplane and the gear change. 

I see that Grove now uses the 7075-T6, based on their current web site.



The occasional reports of Grove gear bending on hard landings, was a bit of 

comfort to me then and more so after suffering a very hard landing.   The 

Hammerhead gear surviving virtually intact ready to fly again.  It was one 

of the first things sold by the salvage folks and looked brand new.



I would like to think that the landing gear would be designed to absorb some 

of the energy of impact and at least deform a little bit.  My airplane 

essentially broke at the landing gear with everything panel forward falling 

forward, separated from every thing aft except through the lower longerons 

and door frame.  Three compression fractures proved to me that my back took 

a lot of the brunt of the crash.



7075-T6 is tough stuff and does not bend well.  I tried to use it on the 

Tiedown straps we made for the Rans series airplanes, and I finally had to 

get the T0 version and heat treat it after forming.  I can see that 

repeatedly rebending landing gear at no charge might ultimately cut into the 

bottom line, but ....



Just some opinions based on some limited experience.



Lowell



---

lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject: gear weight

Hammerhead and Grove began much like Kitfox and Avid, except the original 

company, Grove survived.  I was told by the Hammerhead folks that it was 

their founder and former partner of Grove, that developed the gun drilling 

equipment for the internal brake lines.  As some of you might recall, early 

Grove gear had a channel milled into the aft edge of the gear leg, to 

accommodate an external brake line that could be glued or strapped into it. 

Hammerhaed offered the gun drilling from the get go at no additional charge, 

Grove charged extra - my reason for going with Hammerhead.



The rest is history.



Lowell



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:41 pm Post subject: gear weight

That's it.  Thanks, Lowell.  At least now I know what I have.  As a side 

note, I painted mine to match the airplane.  It's been good gear, but heavy.

Deke



---

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 4:47 pm Post subject: gear weight

Thanks Jim.  Good info and nice to know that my gear should last a long 

time.

Deke



---

pwmac(at)sisna.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:44 am Post subject: gear weight

Lots of discussion when the 2 alloys were used. pros & cons fro each 

- most prominent in my mind :

(1) the 2xxx alloy used for the early Grove will bend sooner than the 

7075 just due to strength assuming the dimensional data is the same. 

Thus there will more energy absorbed by the 20xx alloy compared to 

the stronger alloy. However the different gear lengths change any 

ability to compare the various gears.



(2) The 7075-76 is subject to fracture toughness weakness. That means 

a small rock chip could lead to complete failure. This can be 

mitigated by using a coating for the gear - paint or fabric, etc. for 

the leading edge.



Both alloy choices are made in the annealed condition then heat treated.



It is my understanding that Hammerhead used to be the engineer at 

Grove when the KF was designed.

Anyway being an engineer I chose the 7075-T6 alloy. I am please that 

Grove went to that alloy.

Paul

==========================



At 04:17 PM 3/8/2009, Lowell wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



This is interesting to me - the alloy change.  I wonder if it is a 

good thing.  I bought the Hammerhead gear and installed it on my 

Model IV.  My understanding is that Hammerhead used 7075 T6 and 

Grove used a different alloy - I can only guess, so won't.  This was 

from a conversation with Hammerhead in 2001 or 2 based on fotos of 

my airplane and the gear change. I see that Grove now uses the 

7075-T6, based on their current web site.



The occasional reports of Grove gear bending on hard landings, was a 

bit of comfort to me then and more so after suffering a very hard 

landing.   The Hammerhead gear surviving virtually intact ready to 

fly again.  It was one of the first things sold by the salvage folks 

and looked brand new.



I would like to think that the landing gear would be designed to 

absorb some of the energy of impact and at least deform a little 

bit.  My airplane essentially broke at the landing gear with 

everything panel forward falling forward, separated from every thing 

aft except through the lower longerons and door frame.  Three 

compression fractures proved to me that my back took a lot of the 

brunt of the crash.



7075-T6 is tough stuff and does not bend well.  I tried to use it on 

the Tiedown straps we made for the Rans series airplanes, and I 

finally had to get the T0 version and heat treat it after 

forming.  I can see that repeatedly rebending landing gear at no 

charge might ultimately cut into the bottom line, but ....



Just some opinions based on some limited experience.



Lowell


	


[quote]---

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