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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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 Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:24 am Post subject: cockpit module alignment /control column |
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Rowland
| Quote: | Near the top of the page it says "orientate the column such that the
tube cranks aft and slightly inboard so that there is equal space
between it and each of your thighs" and obviously you have to sit in
it to check that positioning.
But near the bottom of the page it says "check that the minimum
control movement that can be achieved without interference, is 22.5
cm (9") fore and aft and 28 cm (11") laterally" but it does NOT say
you should be sitting in it for that check; I had just mentally
connected the two!
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That was and still is my problem. So, please check movements carefully!
I cannot achieve full aileron movements port/starboard because my cc hits to my fucken thighs.
OK - my thighs are definetely not like lollipop sticks and I have considered some plastical surgery
operations to make them thinner but my test pilot - weighing less than 130 lbs - had same problem!
He stated -this plane is not for aerobatics!
OK - one reason for that problem is my fat fighter type stick grip which is full of switches etc
and secondly - I have shortened cc to get its position more erconomical and to fit my taste.
Resultant: no aerobatics and limited tolerans for sidewind (so far max only 24 knots)!
I should do something but all solutions are unfunny (remove grip and/or lenghten the column).
I do not know what to do. David B advised me: let it be and accept this limitation.
Until this day that is the best thing I can do. Ideas? Remove inner muscles from my both thigs?
Maybe it is a small sacrifice for total satisfactory piloting.
Be care, Rowland
Raimo OH-XRT
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craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: cockpit module alignment /control column |
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You say you have shortened the CC, which means you MAY be ok with what you
have.
If you have shortened the stick 50%, then your movements would be down to
11.25cm f/A
and 14cm Lat. The down side is your stick load will double with half the
stick gone.
Not knowing how long your stick is now, I will let you do the math. If you
dont like the
full stick height because you have to hold your arm up, maybe an arm rest
would resolve
the ergonomic position issues.
craig
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: cockpit module alignment /control column |
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Raimo Toivio wrote:
| Quote: | I cannot achieve full aileron movements port/starboard because my cc hits to my fucken thighs.
I do not know what to do. David B advised me: let it be and accept this limitation.
Until this day that is the best thing I can do. Ideas? Remove inner muscles from my both thigs?
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Why not change the ratio of one the various levers in the aileron
system? Of course more aileron action with less stick movement will come
at the price of more force required to move the ailerons. But people
with big thighs have usually big muscles.  Most likely you don't have
to change much, probably repositioning a hole a few millimeters will do
the trick. I would probably go for the aileron quick connect bellcranks.
Obtain/create new ones, and reposition the push rod hole slightly closer
to the pivot point. You then have more aileron action with less stick
movement.
Another idea is to arrange more space for your lower body, so you knees
get lower. This is what I did. I made two new levers for the rudder
pedals, so the control cable is connected 2cm further from the pivot
point. Since the rudder movement is fixed to 31 degrees, this means 2cm
less pedal travel between both extremes. In neutral, this has the effect
of the pedals being 1 cm closer to their lower limits, hence I extended
my leg space with 1 cm, which has a remarkable effect on the position of
my knees, and thus maximum control column movement.
--
Frans
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: cockpit module alignment /control column |
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Thanks Graig
I well understand your thoughts and math is easy of course.
I shortened the stick about 100 mm /4".
Stick loads are perfect in my mind now - I did like to get some extra response
because do not like too sensitive feeling (old Cessna pilotīs syndrom).
The dark side of the shortening was the fat grip came also lower - that was the bad influence.
Now my arm rest is my port side thig and that is good.
One possible solution: change the aileron transmission ratio in the spar tunnel.
That make even more lateral stick loads but would be ok for me personally.
Raimo OH-XRT
93 hrs, 197 landings.
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: cockpit module alignment /control column |
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Frans
Great!
| Quote: |
Why not change the ratio of one the various levers in the aileron
system? Of course more aileron action with less stick movement will come
at the price of more force required to move the ailerons. But people
with big thighs have usually big muscles.
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Yes that was my idea in my earlier message. Just wonder how hard is it to do practically.
| Quote: | Another idea is to arrange more space for your lower body, so you knees
get lower. This is what I did.
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This is a totally new idea for me. Simple, safe, cheap, fast to do and brilliant.
I have *very* thick temper foam & leather seat cushions.
To make them thinner could be a solution.
I remember during building phase I was sitting there and got all the movements satisfactory.
That could an explanation: I had not seat cushions in those days!
I have thought I have been alone w this problem but obviously did not.
Thank you Frans!!!
Raimo
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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: cockpit module alignment /control column |
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Raimo Toivio wrote:
| Quote: |
Great!
> Why not change the ratio of one the various levers in the aileron
> system? Of course more aileron action with less stick movement will come
> at the price of more force required to move the ailerons. But people
> with big thighs have usually big muscles.
Yes that was my idea in my earlier message. Just wonder how hard is it to do practically.
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If you can drill a new hole, you can do it.
| Quote: | > Another idea is to arrange more space for your lower body, so you knees
> get lower. This is what I did.
This is a totally new idea for me. Simple, safe, cheap, fast to do and brilliant.
I have *very* thick temper foam & leather seat cushions.
To make them thinner could be a solution.
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I found out that the height of the seat has not so much influence on the
position of your knees (and hence control stick movement), but the
distance between the seat back and neutral rudder pedals is of great
importance. Just 1 cm does wonders. I couldn't create much more space
for my back, so I worked on the other end; the rudder pedals.
| Quote: | I have thought I have been alone w this problem but obviously did not.
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Seems like the Europa was not designed with the Dutch and Scandinavian
people in mind, who tend to be somewhat taller than the rest of Europe.
The solution is not a high-top, but rather more leg space.
Frans
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g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
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| Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: cockpit module alignment /control column |
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That a Europa needs more leg room, not head room, is a conclusion I came to
some years ago. I also concluded that lowering the position of your heals
helped.
To do this I have LAA Mod 10665 (which is this aircraft only). The drawing
attached will give you some of the details.
By slight changes to the pedal geometry (shortening them or changing the
lever arm) you can get up to 33mm of extra leg room which gives a huge
improvement. This can be done on a completed aircraft but is a lot of work.
Having the lowered floor and changed geometry will give say 40mm of extra
room.
If anyone is interested I have a CAD drawing with the layout used.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods(at)europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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