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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
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 Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Filling - Control surfaces |
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Say guys...if you can take a walk down memory lane with me for a few
moments, I'd appreciate some feedback.
The other day, while looking for trouble (i.e., a reasonable next step
in my build) I set myself up to skim some dry micro to fill the
trailing edge depressions where the top and bottom skins are bonded
together, thinking that it would be just an afternoon's job which,
after cure, would be followed by some block sanding to knock down the
high spots, and followed by the application of filler over the entire
panels (flaps, ailerons, and trim tabs) to cover the weave. (For this,
I'm planning on using Poly-Fiber's SuperFil rather than Expancel.)
What I've found however, is that filling those depressions is a bit
more of a job than I'd anticipated. Notwithstanding using what I
thought was the stiffest possible mix of micro, I find myself with
numerous low spots thus requiring 2nd and in some cases 3rd
applications of the micro in order to bring those trailing edge
depressions up to the plane of the airfoils. Between coats, I've used
small bits of 150 grit sandpaper around a forefinger so that the
subsequent coat of micro would have a better bond than to simply apply
it over the (glossy) low areas. I've been working under the assumption
that these trailing edges must be dealt with completely before
squeegying on the filler to fill the glass weave over the foam.
I've also been careful when knocking down the high spots to not abrade
the glass fibers on adjacent areas.
Given that each surface has two sides and I've found that the micro
must be applied separately to each side (in multiple coats w/
intervening cure cycles), at this point I'm sitting here wondering:
- Have I made this more complicated than it need be?
- Am I missing something here?
Lookin for either reassurance or a cautionary "heads up",
Fred
A194
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jeff(at)rmmm.net
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: Filling - Control surfaces |
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Hi Fred,
I'm sure others will chime in but my two cents are this. Yes you may be
over complicating it. I tried the dry micro in some areas and found it
to be too much epoxy or too hard to sand compared to the structure or
the expancel. After several attempts such as you are doing I just
resigned to roughing everything and applying the expancel thick. Then
blocking it all back down with a large block. In the long run it was
easier. I can't speak for the Super Fill but others I know love the
stuff. For me it was just economics and I had plenty of the expancel
so I used it.
Put it on thick so only one application is needed. Block it down till
you just start to see the weave in spots. If you have any low areas hit
them again with a light sand and more fill. Mixing micro with other
fill material will only cause more work as they sand at different
rates. I hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 150 hours and climbing slowly.
On Sep 15, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
| Quote: |
Say guys...if you can take a walk down memory lane with me for a few
moments, I'd appreciate some feedback.
The other day, while looking for trouble (i.e., a reasonable next step
in my build) I set myself up to skim some dry micro to fill the
trailing edge depressions where the top and bottom skins are bonded
together, thinking that it would be just an afternoon's job which,
after cure, would be followed by some block sanding to knock down the
high spots, and followed by the application of filler over the entire
panels (flaps, ailerons, and trim tabs) to cover the weave. (For this,
I'm planning on using Poly-Fiber's SuperFil rather than Expancel.)
What I've found however, is that filling those depressions is a bit
more of a job than I'd anticipated. Notwithstanding using what I
thought was the stiffest possible mix of micro, I find myself with
numerous low spots thus requiring 2nd and in some cases 3rd
applications of the micro in order to bring those trailing edge
depressions up to the plane of the airfoils. Between coats, I've used
small bits of 150 grit sandpaper around a forefinger so that the
subsequent coat of micro would have a better bond than to simply apply
it over the (glossy) low areas. I've been working under the assumption
that these trailing edges must be dealt with completely before
squeegying on the filler to fill the glass weave over the foam.
I've also been careful when knocking down the high spots to not abrade
the glass fibers on adjacent areas.
Given that each surface has two sides and I've found that the micro
must be applied separately to each side (in multiple coats w/
intervening cure cycles), at this point I'm sitting here wondering:
- Have I made this more complicated than it need be?
- Am I missing something here?
Lookin for either reassurance or a cautionary "heads up",
Fred
A194
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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h&jeuropa
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 654
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:19 am Post subject: Re: Filling - Control surfaces |
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Hi Fred,
Jeff is right, we used expancel just as he said.
One caution is that, if you are seeing gloss in the micro, it may be too wet (too much epoxy).
We found a "formula" so all of our batches were consistent (marked a line on the mixing cup 1 1/3 inches high, then added 5 full mixing cups of expancel). It is amazing how much expancel you can work in!
We let the mixed epoxy sit 5 minutes to let air bubbles dissipate before mixing in expancel. We gradually add expancel until there is no gloss. Work it on a plywood board with a large spreader to mix thoroughly and work out any air. We often added a bit more expancel at this point to take out the gloss.
We put a very light coat of pure epoxy on the part before spreading the filler (dipped an old sock or lint free cloth to just get it damp, then rubbed the part with it).
Hope that helps,
Jim & Heather Butcher
N241BW
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topglock(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 6:09 am Post subject: Filling - Control surfaces |
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Fred, I'm with Jeff on this. Apply it thick and sand it once. Be sure
to allow adequate time for the expand cell mix to cure, before sanding.
It sands very easily, once it is completely set. 2 or 3 days should
do it...
Jeff - Baby Blue
Back in the air, once more... 
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
| Quote: |
Hi Fred,
I'm sure others will chime in but my two cents are this. Yes you may be
over complicating it. I tried the dry micro in some areas and found it
to be too much epoxy or too hard to sand compared to the structure or
the expancel. After several attempts such as you are doing I just
resigned to roughing everything and applying the expancel thick. Then
blocking it all back down with a large block. In the long run it was
easier. I can't speak for the Super Fill but others I know love the
stuff. For me it was just economics and I had plenty of the expancel so
I used it.
Put it on thick so only one application is needed. Block it down till
you just start to see the weave in spots. If you have any low areas hit
them again with a light sand and more fill. Mixing micro with other fill
material will only cause more work as they sand at different rates. I
hope this helps.
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 150 hours and climbing slowly.
On Sep 15, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>
>
> Say guys...if you can take a walk down memory lane with me for a few
> moments, I'd appreciate some feedback.
>
> The other day, while looking for trouble (i.e., a reasonable next step
> in my build) I set myself up to skim some dry micro to fill the
> trailing edge depressions where the top and bottom skins are bonded
> together, thinking that it would be just an afternoon's job which,
> after cure, would be followed by some block sanding to knock down the
> high spots, and followed by the application of filler over the entire
> panels (flaps, ailerons, and trim tabs) to cover the weave. (For this,
> I'm planning on using Poly-Fiber's SuperFil rather than Expancel.)
>
> What I've found however, is that filling those depressions is a bit
> more of a job than I'd anticipated. Notwithstanding using what I
> thought was the stiffest possible mix of micro, I find myself with
> numerous low spots thus requiring 2nd and in some cases 3rd
> applications of the micro in order to bring those trailing edge
> depressions up to the plane of the airfoils. Between coats, I've used
> small bits of 150 grit sandpaper around a forefinger so that the
> subsequent coat of micro would have a better bond than to simply apply
> it over the (glossy) low areas. I've been working under the assumption
> that these trailing edges must be dealt with completely before
> squeegying on the filler to fill the glass weave over the foam.
>
> I've also been careful when knocking down the high spots to not abrade
> the glass fibers on adjacent areas.
>
> Given that each surface has two sides and I've found that the micro
> must be applied separately to each side (in multiple coats w/
> intervening cure cycles), at this point I'm sitting here wondering:
>
> - Have I made this more complicated than it need be?
>
> - Am I missing something here?
>
> Lookin for either reassurance or a cautionary "heads up",
>
> Fred
> A194
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:05 am Post subject: Filling - Control surfaces |
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On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008, at 07:08 US/Pacific, Jeff B wrote:
| Quote: | Fred, I'm with Jeff on this. Apply it thick and sand it once. Be
sure to allow adequate time for the expand cell mix to cure, before
sanding. It sands very easily, once it is completely set. 2 or 3
days should do it...
|
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fklein(at)orcasonline.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 7:12 am Post subject: Filling - Control surfaces |
|
|
| Quote: | Fred, I'm with Jeff on this. Apply it thick and sand it once. Be
sure to allow adequate time for the expand cell mix to cure, before
sanding. It sands very easily, once it is completely set. 2 or 3
days should do it...
Jeff - Baby Blue
Back in the air, once more...
JEFF ROBERTS wrote: I'm sure others will chime in but my two cents are
this. Yes you may be over complicating it.
|
Thanks Jeffs...nough said. BTW, Good to hear from you Jeff B...hope
it's stopped blowin and rainin down your way!
Fred
--
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topglock(at)cox.net
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: Filling - Control surfaces |
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|
Fred, We're getting back to normal around here, but the big news is
that Baby Blue is up again...  I'll elaborate more when I have a
chance to sit down and write it up...
Jeff - Baby Blue
Fred Klein wrote:
| Quote: |
> Fred, I'm with Jeff on this. Apply it thick and sand it once. Be
> sure to allow adequate time for the expand cell mix to cure, before
> sanding. It sands very easily, once it is completely set. 2 or 3
> days should do it...
>
> Jeff - Baby Blue
> Back in the air, once more...
>
> JEFF ROBERTS wrote: I'm sure others will chime in but my two cents are
> this. Yes you may be over complicating it.
Thanks Jeffs...nough said. BTW, Good to hear from you Jeff B...hope it's
stopped blowin and rainin down your way!
Fred
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