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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
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The short answer is no... I'll direct you to Dave fisher to answer that
one. The major problem with destroying the main bearings is it happens
fast.. one second all seems fine and the next....Deafening silence.
I've met at least one fellow who told me he uses 100 LL in his outboard
motors for over thirty years... He crashes better than anyone I know. The
info that I got was it was Ok to use 100LL in the 582 for short periods if
needed. The Rotax repair shop was emphatic not to use 100LL unless there
was no other way out.
A word on TCP. It has to be burned to work so it won't help your 582.
Noel
Hi Noel, I've read over and over again about "lead plating" destroying
bearings in the bottom end of 582's. Rotax specifically allows leaded fuel
in 582's and beyond internet specul;ation and repetition I cannot find
anything supporting this claim. Now, there's no doubt that the very high
levels of lead in 100LL can possibly stick rings etc. but do you have any
qualified source stating with lab verified results that 100LL will destroy
two stroke bearings? Rotax also specifically allows for AVgas in 912's and I
can't see what else you could use in 912S and 914 since their basic
requirement for octane 95 doesn't appear to be met with premium fuel and
Super premium is a rare beast.
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
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Ethanol has an octane rating of 116 I found that several places on the net. Although the octane rating and volatility are up the actual power in ethanol is much lower than gasoline. 67% comes to mind but may be wrong. The ethanol was added to gasoline as an octane booster now I think it's a vote booster.
Noel
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
Aerocet 1100 Floats |
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 7:48 pm Post subject: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
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At 05:20 PM 8/18/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | The
info that I got was it was Ok to use 100LL in the 582 for short periods if
needed. The Rotax repair shop was emphatic not to use 100LL unless there
was no other way out.
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About 250 hours of 100LL in the 582, with Decalin, so far.
I'll keep you posted.
Guy Buchanan
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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Float Flyr
Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 2704
Location: Campbellton, Newfoundland
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
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Alcohol boils off at around 80C, water at 100C To distil the alcohol and leave the water just boil to 80C using a candy thermometer in the mash. You will get a good flow through the condenser then it will slow down to almost nothing until the remaining water reaches 100C when you see the slow down toss the mash and start another batch. This will give better than 98% alcohol depending on how fast you remove the distilled booze and how cold your condenser is.
When in high school we made pretty good potato mash after hours (boarding school) in the chem. Lab using all the nice glass equipment.
Noel
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Noel Loveys
Kitfox III-A
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Guy Buchanan
Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
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At 04:39 AM 8/19/2008, you wrote:
| Quote: | When in high school we made pretty good potato mash after hours
(boarding school) in the chem. Lab using all the nice glass equipment.
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And though this thread is wandering in more interesting
directions, I think the ethanol/100LL fuel discussion has been beaten
into submission and I will ask everyone to give it a rest for a while.
Thanks,
Guy Buchanan, Kitfox List Moderator
San Diego, CA
K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.
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Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too. |
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bjones(at)dmv.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:47 am Post subject: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
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Local gasoline distributer technicians in my area (Maryland) report that
alcohol is not added to thier gasoline until the tanker truck is leaving to
drop gas at local gas stations so that the ethanol does not have an opportunity
to absorb water during handling, transportation and storage until it leaves the
distributer.
Regional Gas stations still had complaints about settleout with cars stalled
right at the gas station pupms and short distances away. The gas station were
supposed to have run their tanks down to 10 % straight gas and removed all
water prior to converting to ethanol blended gas to avoid settleout but I got a
load of gas with settleout right from the station in a new clean container. By
the way The settleout went thru a funnel with the internal fine mesh stand pipe
intended to catch water. The handling and transportation of Av-Gas is far more
strictly controlled than auto gas, accounting for part of the higher price for
Av-Gas.
Bjones
N154K
443-480-1023
Quoting Noel Loveys <noelloveys(at)yahoo.ca>:
[quote]
I'll answer your question with a question... What's wrong with using a
mixture of say 3/4 washed gas to remove the ethanol and 1/4 100LL? That way
you get a very low lead content fuel with no ethanol and an octane rating of
greater than 91.
Someone mentioned on this thread that gas will absorb water... They then
went on to describe something less than .05%. After thinking on it a while
I've come up with three considerations. 1 the gas is only able to absorb a
very small limited amount of water where ethanol will dissolve and dilute in
any quantity of water. 2 the gas at your station probably is already
saturated with whatever water it can because most gasoline has travelled
through pipelines. Water is used in pipelines to separate shipments of
petro shipments. 3. The ethanol you are washing out has more affinity for
water than gas. Therefore unless you use an ocean of water to clean your gas
the probability is you will actually remove the water content of the
gasoline. For those reasons I have come to the conclusion that there is no
danger of saturating your gas with water by washing the ethanol out of it.
A worst case scenario is there will be less moisture in the fuel after
"washing" than before "washing".
Noel
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lcfitt(at)sbcglobal.net
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| Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:35 pm Post subject: Ethanol - facts and no myths or fiction |
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Noel,
Makes me wonder. The lawn sprinkled this morning and the overspray
disappeard from the sidewalks pretty promptly and it wasn't anything near
80C, let alone 100C.
Lowell
do not archive
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