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Tailwheel Spring

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rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: Tailwheel Spring

I did get my aircraft up and running again last friday and managed to finish up my endorsement.  The tail-wheel is relatively straight, but you can see that the leaf spring is twisted a little.  Is this a standard item I can order from Kitfox, or does each builder find their own tail-wheel system?



Also, I was wondering about the attach points.  The airframe and the front bolt seem very strong, but the two tabs on either side of the tail seemed very easy to bend back in place, and the bolts seem very thin.  Has anyone beefed this area up a little?  Just wondering if it wouldn't be better to add a stronger backing plate underneath the tabs and then also beef up the plate on the bottom of the leaf spring.

_________________
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:25 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

Th e tabs you mention can break.   You can double up the tab if you like or just watch for hailine cracks to start. 

I would replace the tailspring with  the 3 leaf one that Mc Bean sells. 

Works great for me.

 	  Quote: 	
		  I did get my aircraft up and running again last friday and managed to finish up my endorsement. The tail-wheel is relatively straight, but you can see that the leaf spring is twisted a little. Is this a standard item I can order from Kitfox, or does each builder find their own tail-wheel system? 



Also, I was wondering about the attach points. The airframe and the front bolt seem very strong, but the two tabs on either side of the tail seemed very easy to bend back in place, and the bolts seem very thin. Has anyone beefed this area up a little? Just wondering if it wouldn't be better to add a stronger backing plate underneath the tabs and then also beef up the plate on the bottom of the leaf spring.

_________________
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Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: Tailwheel Spring

At 06:35 AM 8/12/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Also, I was wondering about the attach points.  The airframe and the 

front bolt seem very strong, but the two tabs on either side of the 

tail seemed very easy to bend back in place, and the bolts seem very 

thin.  Has anyone beefed this area up a little?  Just wondering if 

it wouldn't be better to add a stronger backing plate underneath the 

tabs and then also beef up the plate on the bottom of the leaf spring.


	


         I've never heard of a failure of the tailwheel support 

structure. On mine the rear tabs and bolts only restrain the spring 

laterally. I put tubes on the bolts so the spring would fit tight 

laterally and the plate would bolt up tight against the tubes, 

slightly clamping the spring. It's been working great through 

rigorous testing for the last couple of years. (Off-road, on-road, a 

couple of mild ground loops, and one interesting impersonation of a 

helicopter.)

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:12 am Post subject: Tailwheel Spring

Guy, many years ago I had one of the tabs break off on my Model II. 

Actually, I didn't notice it until preflight so I have no idea how long it 

had been broken, but I feel it probably broke on my last landing.  From the 

look of the rust on the break, I think it had been breaking for awhile.  I 

simply welded it back on then added a doubler to the underside of the same 

thickness.  No more problems.



From: "Guy Buchanan" <bnn(at)nethere.com>

 	  Quote: 	
		  

         I've never heard of a failure of the tailwheel support structure. 

 On mine the rear tabs and bolts only restrain the spring laterally. I put 

 tubes on the bolts so the spring would fit tight laterally and the plate 

 would bolt up tight against the tubes, slightly clamping the spring. It's 

 been working great through rigorous testing for the last couple of years. 

 (Off-road, on-road, a couple of mild ground loops, and one interesting 

 impersonation of a helicopter.)

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

Lynn Matteson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 2778
Location: Grass Lake, Michigan

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Tailwheel Spring

A bit of a humorous (as it turned out) tale of that insignificant  

section of tubing Guy just mentioned for the tailwheel side bolts.  

When I changed my 2-leaf spring for the 3-leaf spring (John  

McBean...www.kitfoxaircraft.com), I had to make longer tubes. When I  

pulled the old ones off, I tossed them toward the workbench, and one  

missed. I forgot all about it, never thinking I'd ever put them back  

on. A year later, I found this little length of steel tube, painted  

orange like my plane, and began to sweat "where the hell did this  

come from?"  I had just had the wingtips off, and had done my annual,  

and began to think that it must have come from inside the wing, yet I  

couldn't recall any place where it would be used. I had a pretty  

frantic half-hour during which I thought of all the places where this  

could have come from. Damn near slapped myself upside the head when I  

thought of it.

Moral: Label stuff! or at least put it away where you won't think the  

plane is falling apart.

Lynn Matteson

Kitfox IV Speedster

Jabiru 2200

Status: "Condition grounded, but determined to try."  (Pink  

Floyd..."Learning to Fly")

do not archive

On Aug 12, 2008, at 11:14 AM, Guy Buchanan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 At 06:35 AM 8/12/2008, you wrote:

> Also, I was wondering about the attach points.  The airframe and  

> the front bolt seem very strong, but the two tabs on either side  

> of the tail seemed very easy to bend back in place, and the bolts  

> seem very thin.  Has anyone beefed this area up a little?  Just  

> wondering if it wouldn't be better to add a stronger backing plate  

> underneath the tabs and then also beef up the plate on the bottom  

> of the leaf spring.

         I've never heard of a failure of the tailwheel support  

 structure. On mine the rear tabs and bolts only restrain the spring  

 laterally. I put tubes on the bolts so the spring would fit tight  

 laterally and the plate would bolt up tight against the tubes,  

 slightly clamping the spring. It's been working great through  

 rigorous testing for the last couple of years. (Off-road, on-road,  

 a couple of mild ground loops, and one interesting impersonation of  

 a helicopter.)

 Guy Buchanan

 San Diego, CA

 K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:54 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

Deke,



After bending it back and forth, I'm going to guess that the cracks are already started.  How did you attach the doubler, and what did you make it out of?  Seems like a hard place to do welding with the fabric and everything right there.

_________________
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 9:02 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

 	  Quote: 	
		  How did you attach the doubler, and what did you make it out of? Seems like a hard place to do welding with the fabric and everything right there 	


I did mine a few years ago in the winter  -- outside. 

just welded around the doubler to the existing tab that I welded in place first.   your fabric will have be replaced and re painted.   Not a big job , but it will have to be done.

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:55 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

Since I am not welding the tab back on, but just trying to reinforce it, would some sort of epoxy be an acceptable method of attaching the plate?

_________________
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN

shinco(at)bright.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: Tailwheel Spring

dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Th e tabs you mention can break.   You can double up the tab if you like or just watch for hailine cracks to start. 

 I would replace the tailspring with  the 3 leaf one that Mc Bean sells. 

 Works great for me.



   

> I did get my aircraft up and running again last friday and managed to finish up my endorsement. The tail-wheel is relatively straight, but you can see that the leaf spring is twisted a little. Is this a standard item I can order from Kitfox, or does each builder find their own tail-wheel system? 

>

> Also, I was wondering about the attach points. The airframe and the front bolt seem very strong, but the two tabs on either side of the tail seemed very easy to bend back in place, and the bolts seem very thin. Has anyone beefed this area up a little? Just wondering if it wouldn't be better to add a stronger backing plate underneath the tabs and then also beef up the plate on the bottom of the leaf spring.

>     

 --------

 Rotax Dealer, Ontario Canada

 Flying Videos and Kitfox Info

 http://www.cfisher.com/

 Realtime Kitfox movies to separate  the internet  chatter from the truth  

 http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=kitfoxflyer





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198129#198129



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I too broke my tail wheel tail spring+the tab that is welded all so..so 
	


I made a thicker tab bracket twice as thick,and welded it in to 

place..and then could not find tail spring that would fit right..So i 

made my own out of spring steel.formed and shaped with a shop press..and 

drilled double spring..And it works great now.....Steve Shinabery 

N554KF  KF2  little 582 rotax

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

 	  Quote: 	
		  Since I am not welding the tab back on, but just trying to reinforce it, would some sort of epoxy be an acceptable method of attaching the plate?

	




Sure it would hold , but for how long ?   I would say not very long. 

I think welding might be your only option.

Fox5flyer
Guest

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:35 pm Post subject: Tailwheel Spring

That would probably work OK if you added a few rivets to it.

Deke Morisse

Mikado Michigan

S5/Subaru/CAP 391+ TT

"The aim of an argument or discussion should not be victory, but progress."

- Joseph Joubert



Subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Since I am not welding the tab back on, but just trying to reinforce it, 

 would some sort of epoxy be an acceptable method of attaching the plate?



 --------

 Ryan Wheeler

 Kitfox IV-1200

 Indianapolis, IN





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=198216#198216

dave

Joined: 22 Sep 2006
Posts: 1382

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:44 pm Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

When mine broke it was right beside the weld so in that case you could only rivet to one tab and there would only be one weld holding on the remains of the original tab so it would be liable to break again. 



Sorry -- but welding would be best way to go.

Guy Buchanan

Joined: 16 Jul 2006
Posts: 1204
Location: Ramona, CA

Posted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: Tailwheel Spring

At 01:56 PM 8/12/2008, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Since I am not welding the tab back on, but just trying to reinforce 

it, would some sort of epoxy be an acceptable method of attaching the plate?


	


The problem with reinforcing the plate from below is that you have to 

space the whole spring down, (or get a custom spring, or change the 

angle.) This increases the leverage on both the front and rear 

mounts, which kind of defeats the purpose of the reinforcement. To 

answer your question, however, I'd say sure, give it a try. The worst 

that can happen is that the bond breaks. From what I understand of 

what you're trying to do it won't go anywhere and you'll have most of 

the additional strength anyway.

Guy Buchanan

San Diego, CA

K-IV 1200 / 582-C / Warp / 100% done, thanks mostly to Bob Ducar.

_________________
Guy Buchanan
Deceased K-IV 1200
A glider pilot too.

Dick Maddux

Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 516
Location: Milton, Fl

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:54 am Post subject: Tailwheel Spring

Ryan,

   I was having difficulty steering my 4 on the grass with my fat tires so I took about a 3/16 inch piece of steel cut and bent it kind of in the shape of an inverted W without the center in the W if that makes sense. It runs straight across . I drilled 2 holes and bolted it to the exsisting holes in the rudder tabs. Then I drilled holes at the ends of the ears and attached my rudder cables there. This adds reenforcement to the rudder tabs and gives me more mechanical advantage to turn. I have seen this on old Pipers where the rudder actuating bars are bent down.

                                          Dick Maddux

                                          Fox 4

                                          Pensacola, Fl

  



Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget? Read reviews on AOL Autos.

  [quote][b]

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

I'm not following you Dick. Maybe you could post some pics?

rawheels

Joined: 09 Jul 2008
Posts: 89
Location: Westfield, IN

Posted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: Re: Tailwheel Spring

Dick,



I got your picture.  I see what you are talking about now.  We are talking about two different things;  The leaf "springs" are the three pieces of steel that link the fuselage to the tail-wheel assembly, not the connector/anti-shimmy springs that connect to the rudder.  The tabs I am going to reinforce are the ones on the very end of the fuselage not the rudder.  From the picture it actually looks like you might have a reinforcement plate under the tabs as well (unpainted metal between the tabs and the leaf springs).

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_________________
Kitfox IV-1200
Indianapolis, IN

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