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William Sullivan accident
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Mike, I have to disagree.  I firmly believe in luck.  How else could I survive......  the bowling season,



Luck has its place in aviation, such as what obstacles lie below when the engine gets quiet.

-a very recent experience for me.  First thing goes through my mind is "not again!"

Then looking for the best of possibilities.

BB, now cruising a little higher. 



On 17, Jun 2008, at 11:41 AM, Dudley wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Mike,


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  I am Bill's wife, Norma.

Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room >to put down safely, so he went around. 

Thank you for your concern, Norma


	


Norma, (I just reread who your post was responding to...the other Mike. There are a lot of Mikes!!!!. I thought you may have been referring to me, but I will send this email anyway, even though your response may not have directed at me. Mike Welch)



Here was my reply.

I sure hope you or Bill aren't offended by anything I've said, or implied. I certainly wasn't implying Bill threw all caution to the wind, and said "Hell, let's just see what this thing'll do!!" 

That's why I said "crap happens". There are a number of circumstances that can occur while beginning to operate a light plane, that place an untrained pilot in jeopardy (like gusts of wind). This is the case, in my experience.  I, too, was doing "fast taxi's", ....lifted off...started heading for the trees, panicked, stalled, and dove in.   (The real sadness is: I have it all on video.  That way, I can go back and watch what a dumb-ass I was, just in case I forget.)



"IF" I had had proper training, which I later did receive, I wouldn't have busted up my plane, or me. I am merely suggesting to others that they should get the message that ALL forms of flight, whether it is a DC-3, Cessna 172, or an ultralight, REQUIRE formal training prior to operation.



Even though Crystal recently requested "Wish me luck", for her upcoming written FAA exam, she didn't score 98% from being "lucky"!! The fact is, she was prepared, through proper training. I am sure she would tell us she was also "trained" (by Instructor Jim) prior to when she recently soloed her MkII.



I, for one, have sworn off all forms of luck. Luck is for when you aren't properly prepared. I opt for training now.

That's not to say that bad things won't still happen. They surely may. But I definitely decided I don't want to rely on luck.



In my humble, and healed, opinion, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS are around for a reason. They are a necessary ingredient to safe flight. For some inexplicable reason, some of us don't recognize that. We somehow (used to be me, included) think flight instruction is "optional" for light planes.  Must have had my head in a dark region!!

Oh, sure, there have been those "LUCKY" few that learned to fly without proper instruction, but they are the ones who live life on the edge. Most of the time, fate usually catches up with them, too.



After I've gone to all the trouble to build my MkIII, I will seek proper flight instruction. I will not sit in my plane and make airplane noises, until an instructor thinks I'm ok to do so.  I have found the alternative to be too expensive.



Best wishes to all,

The Mike that's building the MkIII Classic to Xtra conversion, who recently relocated to Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri.  What's up with this humidity??!!! 



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 [quote][b]

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:22 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

At 06:10 PM 6/17/2008, robert bean wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Luck has its place in aviation, such as...


	


.. such as my airplane trailer bearing failing within 1 mile of home, and 

being able to limp the rest of the way, after a 500 mile round trip!



But we also make our own luck, by being prepared for the unexpected.



-Dana



--

  My software never has bugs. It just develops random features.

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Re: William Sullivan accident

If a person "DOES" find himself flying unexpectedly....



You should do the same thing your SUPPOSED to do for the 



FIRST FLIGHT....



 Your supposed to go above the airstrip 2000 ft or so...



and APPROACH a STALL.....



I didn't say stall...... you can feel it approaching...



 Look at the AIRSPEED....



 Times this by ???   1 and a half or so....  ( 1.3 - the book ? )



 A quick figure in yer head will work...



 Now you know TWO THINGS....



ONE..... Don't get close to that Stall Speed....



TWO....The airspeed you should be holding on approach....



.

.

.

Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

.

.

.

Snoopy Baxley

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 42

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Norma and Bill

 My kindest wishes for a very speedy  recovery ... My first ultralight ( Kolb Ultrastar) was almost impossible to keep  on the ground while I was learning to fly it ... Bent the landing gear twice ...  Sorry your experience was more painful .... 

  

 Stephen Baxley

 Kolb Firefly

 www.southernflyersul.com



Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

  [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

FIRST FLIGHT....



 Your supposed to go above the airstrip 2000 ft or so...



and APPROACH a STALL.....>>



Planecrazy.. you gotta be kidding. Here is a guy with minimum training who 

thinks he is doing a fast taxi with nothing more in his mind but keeping 

sraight and holding the tail up. A puff of wind and he suddenly finds 

himself at 20 feet.  The only thing in his mind is `How the hell did I get 

up here and how do I get down?"

The natural reaction is to close the throttle and we all know where that 

leads if the the nose is not put down at the same time.  I think he did damn 

well to go on flying the plane and do a circuit while he sorted things out. 

The fact that his landing finished up so disastrously was sheer hard luck. 

How many of us made a good landing on a first solo even fully trained and 

EXPECTING to fly. Given just a smidgeon of good luck he may well have got 

away with it.



You are perfectly right of course. All those things which you list are 

absolutely correct, but to expect a tyro, taken by surprise to carry them 

out is just a bit much.



Cheers



Pat

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:40 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

there were

other ultralight pilots around to explain things to the reporters and 

police>>



Hi Dana,

I have learned from bitter experience that no reporter is interested in 

facts. The story, written up to be as exciting as possible is everything. 

When I was Secretary of my local gliding club I got fed up with every 

outlanding being written up as a `crash landing`, or `Glider runs out of 

wind`. I contacted the Editors of all local papers etc.,gave them my contact 

numbers so that any story could be checked. No one ever checked..



When I crashed my hang glider, on my first flight, and broke my leg it was 

the same. Admittedly the scene was pretty spectacular with the local fire 

brigade and an ambulance, both with lights flashing busily employed carrying 

me out from a field about a mile from the road but from the story in the 

local press you would have thought that Concorde had ploughed in with a full 

load of passengers.



Someone said that a journalist is a man who would rather write 20 thousand 

words rather than check one fact. You better believe it.



Cheers



Pat

JetPilot

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1246

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:54 am Post subject: Re: William Sullivan accident

Sorry to hear of Williams accident...   I have to agree with Pat on this one, the theory and what you should do is very easy and makes perfect sense on the ground.  When someone gets into the air for the first time in a very different airplane like a Kolb, it becomes a matter of just reacting to what is happening at the moment...  Most people get so overwhelmed in this situation that calm intelligent analysis of the situation just is not going to happen.



William, 



Don't let this scare you to bad, it would have happened to just about anyone with your experience level.   Everyone I take up in my MK III tries to slow and flare very high, they would all stall and damage the airplane if I did not shove the stick forward for them on the first few landings.  No matter how much we talk about not flaring to high and not letting the plane slow down, they all make the same mistake until they see and try a couple landings for themselves.   Get some hours of training next time and it will be easy for you.   Flying a Kolb is very different from a Cessna, but it is easy once you get a couple hours and are used to the different characteristics.



Mike

_________________
"NO FEAR" - If you have no fear you did not go as fast as you could have !!!

Kolb MK-III Xtra, 912-S

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: William Sullivan accident

Hi Pat,

           If he would have done his homework....He would have known

that "THESE" planes will get airborne on ya....



  "I" had to Taxi in front of my DAR....Per instructions of my FAA

principal inspector .... I told them , I will only taxi slow...



   I didn't have my Tailwheel endorsement or my 5 hrs in a "Like" aircraft

and I told them that other people have found  themselves in the air...



  You gotta ask yerself  "What IF"..especially in our little world of flying...



Instead of thinking , Oh it probably won't happen to "ME"...

.

.

.



 Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

.

.

.



 	  pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote: 	
		  FIRST FLIGHT....



 Your supposed to go above the airstrip 2000 ft or so...



and APPROACH a STALL.....>>



Planecrazy.. you gotta be kidding. Here is a guy with minimum training who 

thinks he is doing a fast taxi with nothing more in his mind but keeping 

sraight and holding the tail up. A puff of wind and he suddenly finds 

himself at 20 feet.  The only thing in his mind is `How the hell did I get 

up here and how do I get down?"

The natural reaction is to close the throttle and we all know where that 

leads if the the nose is not put down at the same time.  I think he did damn 

well to go on flying the plane and do a circuit while he sorted things out. 

The fact that his landing finished up so disastrously was sheer hard luck. 

How many of us made a good landing on a first solo even fully trained and 

EXPECTING to fly. Given just a smidgeon of good luck he may well have got 

away with it.



You are perfectly right of course. All those things which you list are 

absolutely correct, but to expect a tyro, taken by surprise to carry them 

out is just a bit much.



Cheers



Pat

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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 2:14 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

That is an example of what I consider the weakness in the DAR  

method.  -A lack of uniformity.

Looks to me that it is up to the whims of each and every inspector as  

to what is required.



My inspection was done by a genyoowine FAA guy and he didn't even  

want to hear the engine run.

Makes sense, if it doesn't run , it's a safe airplane.  )



In my case a fast taxi wouldn't have been much threat.  That  

overweight tugboat needs the goodyear

blimp to help it separate from the ground.

BB, expert in descent

do not archive



On 18, Jun 2008, at 4:16 PM, planecrazzzy wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com>



 Hi Pat,

            If he would have done his homework....He would have known

 that "THESE" planes will get airborne on ya....



   "I" had to Taxi in front of my DAR....Per instructions of my FAA

 principal inspector .... I told them , I will only taxi slow...



    I didn't have my Tailwheel endorsement or my 5 hrs in a "Like"  

 aircraft

 and I told them that other people have found  themselves in the air...



   You gotta ask yerself  "What IF"..especially in our little world  

 of flying...



 Instead of thinking , Oh it probably won't happen to "ME"...

 .

 .

 .



  Gotta Fly...

 Mike & "Jaz" in MN

 .

 .

 .





 pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com wrote:

> FIRST FLIGHT....

>

>  Your supposed to go above the airstrip 2000 ft or so...

>

> and APPROACH a STALL.....>>

>

> Planecrazy.. you gotta be kidding. Here is a guy with minimum  

> training who

> thinks he is doing a fast taxi with nothing more in his mind but  

> keeping

> sraight and holding the tail up. A puff of wind and he suddenly finds

> himself at 20 feet.  The only thing in his mind is `How the hell  

> did I get

> up here and how do I get down?"

> The natural reaction is to close the throttle and we all know  

> where that

> leads if the the nose is not put down at the same time.  I think  

> he did damn

> well to go on flying the plane and do a circuit while he sorted  

> things out.

> The fact that his landing finished up so disastrously was sheer  

> hard luck.

> How many of us made a good landing on a first solo even fully  

> trained and

> EXPECTING to fly. Given just a smidgeon of good luck he may well  

> have got

> away with it.

>

> You are perfectly right of course. All those things which you list  

> are

> absolutely correct, but to expect a tyro, taken by surprise to  

> carry them

> out is just a bit much.

>

> Cheers

>

> Pat

 --------

 .

 .

 .

 .

 .

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williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:11 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Kolbers: I am back home, and have not read the mail yet. My wife tells me you have all been asking about me, and thank you for your best wishes. More later on me and the incident later, but would somebody pleas forward the following:

   

    Dear Homer Kolb-

    I am sorry to say that I recently bent one of your fine aircraft, and I sincerely apologize. Thank you for the fine design- it worked exactly as intended, and the cage design protected me from any major injuries whatsoever. I will give details later, but the take-off was totally unintentional, and the hard landing was apparently a tailwind induced stall from a few feet up followed by a cartwheel. When my wife released the seatbelt, I got up and walked away from it. A very few cuts and bruises, and a couple of cracked bones (minor). I will save this one for parts, and will soon purchase another.

   

                                                    Thank you again

   

                                                              Bill Sullivan

                                                               

 [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:26 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Another trip to the hospital. I can only get to the computer now and then. I had minor bruises, minor cuts (no stitches), a broken neck (one crack), broken back (lumbar area- 2 or more cracks), and a broken pelvis (3 or 4 cracks). Pelvis is not attached to spine- cracked and can't take ANY weight. I am going to spend the next 12-16 weeks on the living room floor. The only danger is to my neck, as the cracked vertabrae can pinch or rupture an artery. My butt hurts. At least I wasn't seriously injured, but I do have to wear a cervical collar all the time, and a body brace when I am up in the wheel chair. I still haven't read the mail- can't stay up long enough.

   

                                           Later

                                              Bill Sullivan

 [quote][b]

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:36 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Another trip to the  hospital.>>

  

 Hard luck Bill,

 I think everyone had gathered from the first  reports that you had got away with it scot free. Very sorry to learn that is not  so. Nothing anyone can do except to wish you well.

  

 Keep up with the list and let us know how you are  progressing.

  

 Cheers and best wishes

  

 Pat  

   [quote][b]

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