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olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:11 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

I just saw this come across Google News.  I hope Bill is alright.



PALMER, Mass.â€”Authorities say an ultralight plane crashed at the local landing strip in Palmer, leaving the pilot from Connecticut with minor injuries.



more stories like thisThe Republican newspaper of Springfield reported Sunday that William Sullivan was rushed to Baystate Medical Center in Springfield, where his condition was listed as fair.



Police Sgt. Chris Burns says the aircraft flown by the 35-year-old Sullivan of Windsor Locks, Connecticut, crashed and was destroyed as he attempted to land on a landing strip next to the former Palmer Municipal Airport.



The landing strip is used by members of the Silver Wing Ultralight Club.



There was no immediate information on possible causes for the crash.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

olendorf

Joined: 06 Jul 2006
Posts: 140
Location: Schenectady, NY USA

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 6:14 am Post subject: Re: William Sullivan accident

From CBS3 news;

By Matt DeLucia

Scott Gustafson, Bondsville Fire Chief said William Sullivan, 58, of Windsor Locks was attempting a landing, when the plane fell out of the sky from about 30 feet, bringing the pilot down with it.



"He was conscious when we arrived and shortly after, the ambulance came to tend to him," Gustafson said. 



Sullivan was taken to Bay State Medical Center. Gustafson said his injuries did not appear to be too severe at the scene. The plane was destroyed.

_________________
Scott Olendorf
Original Firestar, Rotax 447, Powerfin prop
Schenectady, NY
http://sites.google.com/site/kolbfirestar/

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 9:21 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

http://www.wwlp.com/Global/story.asp?S=8494399



I really thought he was planning on more instruction, though he was doing 

fast taxis.  Got too high on a crow hop perhaps and had to go around?



-Dana

--

  Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate in a pile outside.

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:02 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Sorry to hear about Bill Sullivan's hard landing.  I guess we all  

indulge in premature speculation,

myself included.  "kolb quit" at 30 feet comes to mind.

Whatever the story, I wish William the Brave a speedy recovery.

BB

do not archive



On 16, Jun 2008, at 1:18 PM, Dana Hague wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 http://www.wwlp.com/Global/story.asp?S=8494399



 I really thought he was planning on more instruction, though he was  

 doing fast taxis.  Got too high on a crow hop perhaps and had to go  

 around?



 -Dana

 --

  Friends come and go, but enemies accumulate in a pile outside.

Ralph B

Joined: 14 Apr 2007
Posts: 367
Location: Mound Minnesota

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 10:09 am Post subject: Re: William Sullivan accident

Sorry to hear about Bill, but it sounds like he will be ok.



The news article said this:



"However Sullivan didn't break the law the federal government doesn't require a license for such a small plane."



This is kind of interesting as the FAA is pretty much in the dark about ultralights/LSA's and the differences between them.



Ralph

_________________
Ralph B

Kolb Kolbra 912uls
N20386
550 hours

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:16 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Hi Dana,

  This is Bills wife, Norma.

  Bill was never intending to get of the ground. He was trying to find out how fast the Kolb would stop when he hit the kill switch. He got the Kolb up to 2700RPM then hit the kill switch several times. The last time he got it up to the speed and a gust of wind lifted the plane. He was at the part of the runway of no return, he had NO choice but to gun it and go around. He went around and started his decent but didn't feel right about the decent, so he went around again. The second time it was a very good approach, but a down draft pushed the plane down from about 10-15 feet. When he touched down, hard, the landing gear folded up and the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip, one on both sides. We had just taken a flying lesson on Friday and Saturday, and he was not ready to leave the ground. It was not intentional like some are saying. He will be [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:24 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Hi Robert,

  I am Bill's wife, Norma.

  Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room to put down safely, so he went around. The first time he said it didn't feel right so he went around again. The second time the plane was coming in it was picture perfect until he was about 10-15 feet from the ground. A downward gust of wind made his landing harder than he wanted it to be, the landing gear folded up to the sing strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled, but he wants another one. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip bones, one on either side. The Dr's are still deciding what course of treatment for him.

  Thank you for your concern,

  Norma



robert bean <slyck(at)frontiernet.net> wrote:

  [quote]--> Kolb-List message posted [quote][b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:42 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Hi Ralph,

  I am Bill's wife, Norma.

  Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room to put down safely, so he went around. The first time he said it didn't feel right so he went around again. The second time the plane was coming in it was picture perfect until he was about 10-15 feet from the ground. A downward gust of wind made his landing harder than he wanted it to be, the landing gear folded up to the sing strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled, but he wants another one. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip bones, one on either side. The Dr's are still deciding what course of treatment for him.

  You are so right about the FAA, they really have no clue.

  Thank you for your concern,

  Norma



[b][i]Ralph B [quote][b]

planecrazzzy
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: William Sullivan accident

There's been a Kolb Firestar posted "For Sale" on this list a week ago...



 You could be flying it with yer cast on....



 Gotta Fly...

 Mike & "Jaz" in MN

.

.

PS  Who just said not too long ago...Planes aren't Toys

.

.

.

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Hi Norma, thanks for keeping us posted.  That sounds about like what I 

surmised as I didn't think he had any intention of flying it yet.  Anybody 

can take off in an ultralight but the landing is a completely different 

story as they lose speed a LOT faster than the Ercoupes and C-150 he'd 

flown before.



My first trip around the pattern in a weightshift Quicksilver (though it 

was intentional) had a similar bad ending.



Give him my best wishes for a speedy recovery... and return to the air.



-Dana



At 04:13 PM 6/16/2008, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Dana,

This is Bills wife, Norma.

Bill was never intending to get of the ground. He was trying to find out...

Dana

Joined: 13 Dec 2007
Posts: 1047
Location: Connecticut, USA

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:20 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

At 02:09 PM 6/16/2008, Ralph B wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  The news article said this:



"However Sullivan didn't break the law the federal government doesn't 

require a license for such a small plane."



This is kind of interesting as the FAA is pretty much in the dark about 

ultralights/LSA's and the differences between them.


	


Well, Bill's plane was a legal ultralight (or close to it) and there were 

other ultralight pilots around to explain things to the reporters and police.



-Dana

--

  Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm 

not sure about the former.-- Albert Einstein

russ(at)rkiphoto.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

NormaWe all are  most concerned about  Bill -- and you!

Let us know if there's ANYthing we can do to help.

Sorry our meeting awhile ago was so short, but I enjoyed it --

Russ Kinne

do not archive





On Jun 16, 2008, at 4:13 PM, william sullivan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Dana,

  This is Bills wife, Norma.

  Bill was never intending to get of the ground. He was trying to find out how fast the Kolb would stop when he hit the kill switch. He got the Kolb up to 2700RPM then hit the kill switch several times. The last time he got it up to the speed and a gust of wind lifted the plane. He was at the part of the runway of no return, he had NO choice but to gun it and go around. He went around and started his decent but didn't feel right about the decent, so he went around again. The second time it was a very good approach, but a down draft pushed the plane down from about 10-15 feet. When he touched down, hard, the landing gear folded up and the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip, one on both sides. We had just taken a flying lesson on Friday and Saturday, and he was not ready to leave the ground. It was not intentional like some are saying. He will be  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


 [quote][b]

cristalclear13

Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 363
Location: Southeast Georgia

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:09 pm Post subject: Re: William Sullivan accident

I'm sorry to hear of your accident Bill. Please get well soon. You and Norma are in our prayers.

_________________
Cristal Waters
Kolb Mark II Twinstar Rotax 503 DCSI Sept 2007 - sold Sept 2012
Private Pilot Aug 2008
ELSA Repairman for N193Y April 2008
Rotax 2 stroke maintenance April 2009

ElleryWeld(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Hi Norma  great to hear from you  that bill  will make it to fly again I wish him a speedy recovery and the same for a plane  rebuild 

  

 Ellery in Maine

 do not archive

  

  In a message dated 6/16/2008 4:43:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		     Hi Ralph,

   I am Bill's wife, Norma.

   Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room    to put down safely, so he went around. The first time he said it didn't feel    right so he went around again. The second time the plane was coming in it was    picture perfect until he was about 10-15 feet from the ground. A downward gust    of wind made his landing harder than he wanted it to be, the landing gear    folded up to the sing strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The    plane is totaled, but he wants another one. Bill has 2 fractures of    his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip bones, one on either side. The Dr's    are still deciding what course of treatment for him.

   You are so right about the FAA, they really have no clue.

   Thank you for your concern,

   Norma



Ralph B  	  Quote: 	
		  [b]



="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com

://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[/b]

	




Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars.

  [quote][b]

lcottrell

Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or

Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 8:05 pm Post subject: William Sullivan accident

[quote]    the landing gear folded up to the sing    strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled, 

    

   I am afraid that this incident is a    common thread with our planes. The weakest point is the landing gear, and if    left stock, is going to cause you a hell of a lot of trouble and repairs. I    have had three incidents that has illustrated this problem, and while I will    not try to tell you that my own lack of training and downright old fashioned    stupidity has not played a significant role in these incidents, I will tell    you that a lot of the damage could have been avoided by using the steel gear    legs and larger tires. The problem is made worse by the fact that the gear    legs point forward, so if a wheel breaks off, or a alum gear leg breaks it is    going to stab into the ground, or if it just collapses then the nose is going    to dig in and things are going to get ugly pretty fast. 

    

   Larry C, Oregon

   406 hours Firestar    II 

[b]

_________________
do not archive

ez(at)embarqmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 5:09 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

On Jun 17, 2008, at 12:02 AM, Larry Cottrell wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  >>  I am afraid that this incident is a common thread with our planes. The weakest point is the landing gear,  <<<


	




Nope, Not the landing gear.

The weakest link is always the nut that holds the stick, even with experts like John Hauck and John Williamson whose personal titanium piloting strengths far surpass that of the average Kolb pilot.

Ya can't be too careful.

pea nut     Gene,

[quote] 

 	  Quote: 	
		   the landing gear folded up to the sing strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled,

 

I am afraid that this incident is a common thread with our planes. The weakest point is the landing gear, and if left stock, is going to cause you a hell of a lot of trouble and repairs. I have had three incidents that has illustrated this problem, and while I will not try to tell you that my own lack of training and downright old fashioned stupidity has not played a significant role in these incidents, I will tell you that a lot of the damage could have been avoided by using the steel gear legs and larger tires. The problem is made worse by the fact that the gear legs point forward, so if a wheel breaks off, or a alum gear leg breaks it is going to stab into the ground, or if it just collapses then the nose is going to dig in and things are going to get ugly pretty fast.

 

Larry C, Oregon

406 hours Firestar II 

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


[b]

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:10 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Hi Mike,

  I am Bill's wife, Norma.

  Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room to put down safely, so he went around. The first time he said it didn't feel right so he went around again. The second time the plane was coming in, it was picture perfect until he was about 10-15 feet from the ground. A downward gust of wind made his landing harder than he wanted it to be, the landing gear folded up to the strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled, but he wants another one. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip bones, one on either side. The Dr's are still deciding what course of treatment for him. He will be having surgery for the hip fractures, but I don't know when yet. I will keep everyone posted.

  Thank you for your concern,

  Norma

planecrazzzy <planecrazzzy(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

  

There's been a Kolb Firestar posted "For Sale" on this list a week ago...



You could be flying it with yer cast on....



Gotta Fly...

Mike & "Jaz" in MN

williamtsullivan(at)att.n
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:45 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Hi Ellery,

  Bill's plane cannot be rebult as far as the eye can see. But that's ok, we can buy a new one for him that has brakes!



ElleryWeld(at)aol.com wrote:

  [quote]    Hi Norma  great to hear from you  that bill will make it to fly again I wish him a speedy recovery and the same for a plane rebuild 

   

  Ellery in Maine

  do not archive

   

    In a message dated 6/16/2008 4:43:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, williamtsullivan(at)att.net writes:

   	  Quote: 	
		    Hi Ralph,

  I am Bill's wife, Norma.

  Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room to put down safely, so he went around. The first time he said it didn't feel right so he went around again. The second time the plane was coming in it was picture perfect until he was about 10-15 feet from the ground. A downward gust of wind made his landing harder than he wanted it to be, the landing gear folded up to the sing strut, the plane cartwheeled then flipped over. The plane is totaled, but he wants another one. Bill has 2 fractures of his pelvic bone and 2 fractures of his hip bones, one on either side. The Dr's are still deciding what course of treatment for him.

  You are so right about the FAA, they really  [/b] 	
[b]

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:33 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

Norma/All

  

 Sorry to hear about Bill's accident. 

  

 This is a list service so everyone gets a copy of  what is posted so it is not necessary to respond to everyone  individually.

  

 I find this difficult at this time but this is a  teaching moment. First fast taxiing is a bad thing to do in the learning process  with a Kolb. A Kolb will taxi very well and seem to be well below flying speed  but will often lift off when power is reduced. Its a high thrust line pusher  thing. Never fast taxi without being prepared to fly. Some people have even  shortened their takeoffs by momentarily reducing power to get off the  ground. 

  

 Landing approaches are best done well above  stall speed. An approach to landing in a 152 is much different and  will not serve a new pilot well as training for a Kolb. Again approaches  initially should be made a good 15+ MPH over indicated airspeed. If the strip  you are learning at doesn't lend its self to this hot of  a approach don't land there. Kolbs will slow down very quickly so this  really will not add much to your landing distance. If the winds are gusting add  the gusting speed to your approach speed. If you are just learning to  fly and the winds are blowing over 5 mph or gusting you should be  flying or taxiing. 

  

 Sorry about the preaching. There is much more  in the archives on this subject.

  

 My $.02 worth

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIC

  

 [quote]   ---

airspeedx3(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:43 am Post subject: William Sullivan accident

 	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Mike,


	


 	  Quote: 	
		  I am Bill's wife, Norma.

Bill did not intentionally go up he just got lifted and did not have room >to put down safely, so he went around. 

Thank you for your concern, Norma


	


Norma, (I just reread who your post was responding to...the other Mike. There are a lot of Mikes!!!!. I thought you may have been referring to me, but I will send this email anyway, even though your response may not have directed at me. Mike Welch)



Here was my reply.

I sure hope you or Bill aren't offended by anything I've said, or implied. I certainly wasn't implying Bill threw all caution to the wind, and said "Hell, let's just see what this thing'll do!!" 

That's why I said "crap happens". There are a number of circumstances that can occur while beginning to operate a light plane, that place an untrained pilot in jeopardy  (like gusts of wind). This is the case, in my experience.  I, too, was doing "fast taxi's", ....lifted off...started heading for the trees, panicked, stalled, and dove in.   (The real sadness is: I have it all on video.  That way, I can go back and watch what a dumb-ass I was, just in case I forget.)



"IF" I had had proper training, which I later did receive, I wouldn't have busted up my plane, or me. I am merely suggesting to others that they should get the message that ALL forms of flight, whether it is a DC-3, Cessna 172, or an ultralight, REQUIRE formal training prior to operation.



Even though Crystal recently requested "Wish me luck", for her upcoming written FAA exam, she didn't score 98% from being "lucky"!! The fact is, she was prepared, through proper training. I am sure she would tell us she was also "trained" (by Instructor Jim) prior to when she recently soloed her MkII.



I, for one, have sworn  off all forms of luck. Luck is for when you aren't properly prepared. I opt for training now.

That's not to say that bad things won't still happen. They surely may. But I definitely decided I don't want to rely on luck.



In my humble, and healed, opinion, FLIGHT INSTRUCTORS are around for a reason. They are a necessary ingredient to safe flight. For some inexplicable reason, some of us don't recognize that. We somehow (used to be me, included) think flight instruction is "optional" for light planes.  Must have had my head in a dark region!!

Oh, sure, there have been those "LUCKY" few that learned to fly without proper instruction, but they are the ones who live life on the edge. Most of the time, fate usually catches up with them, too.



After I've gone to all the trouble to build my MkIII, I will seek proper flight instruction. I will not sit in my plane and make airplane  noises, until an instructor thinks I'm ok to do so.  I have found the alternative to be too expensive.



Best wishes to all,

The Mike that's building the MkIII Classic to Xtra conversion, who recently relocated to Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri.  What's up with this humidity??!!! 

  

Do Not Archive

            [quote][b]

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