Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Rotax 912/914

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

cjaussi(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 7:54 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul and the 914?  As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except for the turbo.  The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same.  is the 914 beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo?  Has anyone heard of an after market turbo for the 912?  [quote][b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:26 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

Curtis,

The 912 and 914 have different pistons and connecting 

On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:

[quote]Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul and the 914?  As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except for the turbo.  The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same.  is the 914 beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo?  Has anyone heard of an after market turbo for the 912?  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	
[b]

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

Curtis & other Europaphiles,

Oops, hit the wrong button on that previous transmission.



The main difference between the 912 and 914 are different compression ratios due to the different pistons and (I believe) connecting rods.  The three engines 912, 912S and 914 all have different compression ratios.  



Of course, the exhaust systems are quite different due to the presence of the turbo.  



There are also differences in the lube system to support the special lubrication needs of the turbo.  



There may be other differences. 



Good building and great flying,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done.  Baggage bay in.  Flaps & Main Gear complete.  Mod 72 complete.  Instrument panel complete, except for testing.  Rotax 914 installed (for the 3rd time).  Airmaster Prop installed.  Electrical complete, except for testing.  Fuel system complete except for testing.  Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing.  Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05.  Seat arrived from Oregon Aero.  E04 interior kit has arrived and is being installed. 

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117

On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul and the 914?  As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except for the turbo.  The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same.  is the 914 beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo?  Has anyone heard of an after market turbo for the 912? 	




 



 



 [quote][b]

yxh56(at)ukgateway.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:09 pm Post subject: Rotax 912/914

Not Correct!

From the Rotax aircraft website at www.rotax-aircraft-engines.com Both the 912 and the 914  are 1211cc and 9:1 ratio.  The 912S is different at 1352cc and 10.5:1



All three use the same crankshaft and connecting rods (they are a single unit and cannot be separated) p/n 888164.  The 912 and 914 used 79.5mm dia piston p/n 996549 and the 912S uses 84mm p/n 88838.  there is also a difference in the piston pins and rings.  Some earlier 912 and 914 engines use crank p/n 996583.



cheers



Simon



On 12 Jan 2008, at 16:25, rlborger wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Curtis & other Europaphiles,

Oops, hit the wrong button on that previous transmission.



The main difference between the 912 and 914 are different compression ratios due to the different pistons and (I believe) connecting rods.  The three engines 912, 912S and 914 all have different compression ratios.  



Of course, the exhaust systems are quite different due to the presence of the turbo.  



There are also differences in the lube system to support the special lubrication needs of the turbo.  



There may be other differences. 



Good building and great flying,

Bob Borger

Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S

http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL

(90%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in, Mod 70 done.  Baggage bay in.  Flaps & Main Gear complete.  Mod 72 complete.  Instrument panel complete, except for testing.  Rotax 914 installed (for the 3rd time).  Airmaster Prop installed.  Electrical complete, except for testing.  Fuel system complete except for testing.  Working in - 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Interior & Finishing.  Airmaster arrived 29 Sep 05.  Seat arrived from Oregon Aero.  E04 interior kit has arrived and is being installed. 

3705 Lynchburg Dr.

Corinth, TX  76208

Home:  940-497-2123

Cel:  817-992-1117

On Jan 12, 2008, at 9:49 AM, Curtis Jaussi wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Does anyone understand the real differences between the Rotax 912ul and the 914?  As far as I can determine, they are the same engine except for the turbo.  The displacement and the pistons seem to be the same.  is the 914 beefed up in some way to take the extra strain from the turbo?  Has anyone heard of an after market turbo for the 912? 	




 



 



  	  Quote: 	
		  

href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



	


	


 [quote][b]

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 3:37 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

I  wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a 912s to  reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the  extra

 capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or  so. Could be a good way to go

  

 craig

 [quote]   --

lgds(at)post6.tele.dk
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:09 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

- what do we need 130 hp for ??   :-)Regards Gert

Mono/914/app. 500 hours

OY-GDS





Den 14/01/2008 kl. 12.41 skrev craig bastin:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a 912s to reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the extra

capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or so. Could be a good way to go

 

craig

yxh56(at)ukgateway.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 4:16 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

Craig,

All three engines use the same crank and con rods.  The crank is not a solid forging but is made up from various components in a special press (hence the rods cannot be changed).  I have seen the result of a 914 that took off with the TCU switched off and the crank was twisted.  I would suggest that a 912s with a turbo might not provide sufficient margin of safety.



cheers



Simon

 

On 14 Jan 2008, at 11:41, craig bastin wrote:

[quote]  I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a 912s to reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the extra

 capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or so. Could be a good way to go

  

 craig

 [quote]  --

litesellme(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

Craig,

No spacers are needed. Simply replace the pistons with lower compression pistons. The problem with the 912s is that the cylinder walls are very thin. I don't know when you will exceed the designs safety factor and crack jugs. 

See my line of fuel injected engines at www.experimentalfuelinjection.com We do fuel injection the proper way. I sell the following kits as well

To fuel inject a rotax 912  4500 with wideband o2 sensor and 55 amp alt

To make a 912 into a fuel injected 914 9000USD

Give me a call with any questions

661 428-1850

craig bastin <craigb(at)onthenet.com.au> wrote:[quote]     I  wonder if anyone has  switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a 912s to  reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the  extra

 capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or  so. Could be a good way to go

  

 craig

 [quote]   --

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:37 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

faster  climb outs springs to mind, 165kts cruise might be nice  too :  )

 Plus,  and i guess some of you mountain flyers would be familiar with mountain waves  etc, full power 100kts nose up and still sinking

 at  1000fpm or more. not that you need our may even want to use it, but that  extra power may save your life. 

 Plus  it give ATC something to think about when you  take off at 150kts 2000fpm climb : ) and they are up there thinking "Stupid little kit planes  shouldnt

 be  using REAL airports like this one"

 [quote]   --

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:04 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

Well funny you should mention that.  In Colombia where experimental aviation is not subject to quite so many restrictions they have been turbocharging 912 (normal) for many years – in fact before the 914 came out.  This was originally developed to deal with the high altitudes.  

   

Basically what they do is bolt a mitsubishi car turbo on to a stock 912.   I have one on my zenith and it works well.  It has some interesting features such as retaining the mechanical pump in series with an electric boost pump.  It will run at 22” with just the mechanical pump.   With both fuel pumps running at 8500ft this arrangement is good for 33” of manifold pressure.   The waste-gate is purely mechanical – no electronics at all.  

   

This issue for the Europa is the that the engine is rather long because the turbo sits behind the crankcase.  

   

Will  

   

       

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin

 Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 06:42

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Rotax 912/914  

  

  

     

I wonder if anyone has switched pistons or thrown a head spacer in a 912s to reduce the compression and then turbo charged it. With the extra  

    

capacity if it was done correctly it should be good for about 130hp or so. Could be a good way to go  

    

   

    

craig  

  [quote]  

--

craigb(at)onthenet.com.au
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:49 am Post subject: Rotax 912/914

interesting, I have wondered if it would be a cheaper option to go that  path, pay 16k for a 912 then turbo it, or pay 37k for a 914

 cause  thats what rotax want for a 914 in australia. A new garret turbo will run you  about 7k if you know where to go, about 3k for

 manifolds etc and your saving about 10k

  

 craig

 [quote]   --

wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Rotax 912/914

That is exactly what happens here…the difference I think is USD26k for a new 914 and USD16k + USD5k or so for the turbo so you save 5 k.    The “manifolds”  well that is rather a sophisticated name for it.  The turbo sits at the end of the exhaust pipe and then exits through a cylindrical exhaust collector box to the outside.  

   

The cool side of the turbo is connected with a substantial piece of rubber tubing to an airbox whence the air is fed to the carbs.  There is an alternative air source in the box to permit the engine to breath if the turbo stops.   And it does work without the turbo as well.    

   

 The turbo has an oil feed from the pump and outlet to the oil tank.  

   

The whole things looks about as basic as it gets.  

   

I don’t think that you have to go quite a sophisticated for the turbo as a garrett…if you are interested I am sure I can find the details of how it is done.  

       

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin

 Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2008 14:53

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Rotax 912/914  

  

  

     

interesting, I have wondered if it would be a cheaper option to go that path, pay 16k for a 912 then turbo it, or pay 37k for a 914  

    

cause thats what rotax want for a 914 in australia. A new garret turbo will run you about 7k if you know where to go, about 3k for  

    

manifolds etc and your saving about 10k  

    

   

    

craig  

  [quote]  

--

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum