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rv(at)thelefflers.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

I’m just getting ready to order my wings.  

   

For those of you that are flying, would you make a different decision on what lighting you installed or would you  do the same thing in your next aircraft?  

   

I’m debating between the Duckworks HID in the leading edge or a HID in the wingtip.  

   

Thanks,

 

   

Bob  

   

      [quote][b]

pilotdds(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:35 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

I have the wingtip lights supplied by vans,I have found them somewhat lacking on dark nights for both landing and taxiing.There appears to be a poorly lit area directly in front of the pilot.I have adjusted them to max benefit,They are usable but not great in my application.

 

 

 --

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:39 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

I’m not happy with the wingtip lights myself. If I try to get them to converge toward the center so that the center stripe shows up, the wingtip blocks a lot of the light. I think I will add an additional light either in the cowl or in the leading edge of one wing. The light themselves are bright enough I think but leave a very dark area right in front of the plane.  

Albert Gardner  

Yuma, AZ  

   

--

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

The leading edge lights by Duckworks align really well for me

with dual landing lights (one per side).  It's no problem to

land on even a totally unlit runway if you can find your way

down to it.  If you go that route though and you haven't painted

yet, I would just suggest cutting the holes and mounting the

brackets for both sides, even if you only put in one lamp.

You can always toss in a non-HID if you need to for cost

reasons, and change them later if you wish.



I know I've heard that there are going to be HID's for the

wingtips (of course, some can also go with the LoPresti

option, but talk to people before you try to do this with

tip tanks) but just due to things like the other answers

given by Albert, I'm not sure if from a light alignment

point of view you could do a great job covering the

angles you need.  Also, mounted there, the actual beam

dimensions may become very critical if you want to get

light in front of the plane at all.  Not saying it won't work,

but you might have more challenges ahead of you than the

leading edge lights.



I can see why leading edge lights would be intimidating to

convince yourself to cut the holes, but other than that,

I haven't found any reason that they aren't an ideal

location. The actual cutting process isn't a big deal either,

once you start it.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Albert Gardner wrote:

[quote] I’m not happy with the wingtip lights myself. If I try to get them to 

 converge toward the center so that the center stripe shows up, the 

 wingtip blocks a lot of the light. I think I will add an additional 

 light either in the cowl or in the leading edge of one wing. The light 

 themselves are bright enough I think but leave a very dark area right in 

 front of the plane.

 

 Albert Gardner

 

 Yuma, AZ

 

  

 

 --

gipsowh(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 7:22 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

Check out the Aerosun LED landing lights.  I've installed in my 10, yet to fly.  

www.aeroleds.com

  	  Quote: 	
		    From: rv(at)thelefflers.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RV10-List: Landing Light Question

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:22:49 -0500

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I’m just getting ready to order my wings. 

For those of you that are flying, would you make a different decision on what lighting you installed or would you  do the same thing in your next aircraft? 

I’m debating between the Duckworks HID in the leading edge or a HID in the wingtip. 

Thanks,

Bob 

 	  Quote: 	

blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution

get=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

p://forums.matronics.com

Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Power up!  [quote][b]

capsteve

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: NIAGARA FALLS NY

Posted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

I am very interested in the shadowing of headlights from the wingtip

position. i have taken a lot of time and energy to develop and make a direct

replacement hid kit for the wingtip light position. as a matter of fact i

just received my stocking order last week (after 6 mo's of delay) and I've

been testing the product on the bench. the results have been very good. What

we ended up with was a 50watt 5000k hid lamp and ballast to drop in place

with no modifications required. 

I'd like to recruit two flying rv10 owners who'd like to get a special deal

on some hid lights in exchange for some real world feedback on the kit. the

light output is awesome but if there is any coverage issues i may make a

fiberglass cowl light as a third. at 3.5 amp each running two or three

shouldn't pose ant problems from a current standpoint....

what has the general feeling been about the standard lights mounted in the

wingtips. this is the first i heard about light coverage (shadowing)

issues....   



Steven dinieri

IFLYRV10.COM		

 



--

rv(at)thelefflers.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: Landing Light Question

Are there any RV’s that are flying with the AeroLEDs installed?  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Gipson

 Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:22 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Landing Light Question  

Check out the Aerosun LED landing lights.  I've installed in my 10, yet to fly.  

 www.aeroleds.com

From: rv(at)thelefflers.com

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Landing Light Question

 Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:22:49 -0500    

I’m just getting ready to order my wings.  

For those of you that are flying, would you make a different decision on what lighting you installed or would you  do the same thing in your next aircraft?  

I’m debating between the Duckworks HID in the leading edge or a HID in the wingtip.  

Thanks,  

Bob  

  [quote] [b]

rv(at)thelefflers.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: Landing Light Question

Albert,  

   

Are you using the standard Van’s OP36 kit?  

   

Although I would suspect if there are shadowing issues, they would be present in all the other wing tip vendors solutions too.  

   

Thanks,  

   

bob  

       

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert Gardner

 Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:41 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Landing Light Question  

  

  

   

I’m not happy with the wingtip lights myself. If I try to get them to converge toward the center so that the center stripe shows up, the wingtip blocks a lot of the light. I think I will add an additional light either in the cowl or in the leading edge of one wing. The light themselves are bright enough I think but leave a very dark area right in front of the plane.  

Albert Gardner  

Yuma, AZ  

   

--

Jim & Julie Wade

Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 34

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Re: Landing Light Question

Lopesti has a kit for the RV10. Fits right in the tip. 1000000 lumins. I fly in and out of an unlit grass strip and the lights are the only reason I can the old lights were useless. The Loprestis light the runway from end to end. Also you can run them all the time, because power draw is minimal and the bulb has a 5000 hour life.

Jim

rv(at)thelefflers.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: Landing Light Question

Hmmm......



I can't seem to find these on their web site.

--

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:20 am Post subject: Landing Light Question

The lights are not on the LoPresti web site. Give them a call and  

they will direct you to them. I tried to install them on my airplane  

and they would not fit with the SafeAir1 ER tip tanks. They would  

have been fine without the tip tanks. I know Jim Wade has tip tanks  

and the LoPresti lights. His was the prototype installation done by  

LoPresti and I suspect the brackets may be slightly different. The  

brackets that came with my kit did not match the dimensions of the  

brackets in the scale drawings, and I am pretty sure that caused my  

problem. The folks at LoPresti are very good to work with and provide  

good customer service.



David Maib

40559



On Nov 25, 2007, at 7:32 AM, Bob Leffler wrote:






Hmmm......



I can't seem to find these on their web site.

--

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

robin1(at)mrmoisture.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: Landing Light Question

I don't see pricing for the Boom Beam system on their site. Do anyone

know about what they cost?



Robin

40570

Albert Gardner

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

Yes, my wingtips are totally stock. I don’t think brighter lights are the answer because of the shadowing issue. I really like to get the center stripe up even at a familiar field.  

Albert Gardner  

Yuma, AZ  

   

--

_________________
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 N991RV

dmaib@me.com

Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 455
Location: New Smyrna Beach, Florida

Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:09 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

I think the normal price is about $800 for the complete kit.



David

40559



On Nov 25, 2007, at 10:35 AM, Robin Marks wrote:






I don't see pricing for the Boom Beam system on their site. Do anyone

know about what they cost?



Robin

40570

_________________
David Maib
RV-10 #40559
New Smyrna Beach, FL

Phil.Perry(at)netapp.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:05 am Post subject: Landing Light Question

I have seen Bill's AeroLED's and (even though I'm still a  ways away) I plan on using the AeroLED 1600's too.  They're insanely  bright, simple to install, and they only pull 2amps.  I'm looking forward  to the saving a little bit of weight on smaller wiring.

  

 But even with those benefits, the primary selling point for  me is the wig-wag functionality. The wig-wag controller is built into the lights  and you only need to run 1 extra wire from the lights to the cockpit  switch.  When you close the switch, the lights begin running in wig-wag  mode.  No extra boxes, or anything.

  

 They're just really bright, simple to install, and very  functional.

  

 Phil

  

  

  

  



   From: Bob Leffler [mailto:rv(at)thelefflers.com]  

Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 6:39 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Landing Light  Question

 

  

Are  there any RV’s that are flying with the AeroLEDs  installed? 

    

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill  Gipson

Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 10:22 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Landing Light  Question



 

  

Check out the  Aerosun LED landing lights.  I've installed in my 10, yet to fly.   

www.aeroleds.com

   

 

From:  rv(at)thelefflers.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Landing  Light Question

Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2007 16:22:49 -0500  

I’m just getting  ready to order my wings. 

  

For those of you  that are flying, would you make a different decision on what lighting you  installed or would you  do the same thing in your next  aircraft? 

  

I’m debating between  the Duckworks HID in the leading edge or a HID in the  wingtip. 

  

Thanks, 

Bob 

 

[quote] 



href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

wcurtis(at)nerv10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:23 am Post subject: Landing Light Question

So LED are cool but why pay $325 for one 1600 lumens LED when the standard H3 bulb in the $100 dual kit from Vans puts out 1550 lumens?  I'm sure they will last a lot longer however, that's a lot of H3 bulbs to get up to the cost of those LED.  Unless you reeeeally need low power consumption or low heat, LED landing and taxi light just don't make sense at those prices and light levels--IMHO.



Me, I'll have two standard H3s in the wingtips that can wing-wag and a single HID in the cowl, ala Cirrus.  Actually, the recognition lights in the Cirrus wingtips are also LED, but these are recognition, not flood like the HID in the cowling.



William

http://wcurtis.nerv10.com/ 



------

dasduck(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:46 am Post subject: Landing Light Question

Bob,

 I have heard from many RV pilots that they wished they  would have used my Leading Edge lights instead of the tip lights, especially due  to the 'blanking' issue.

 This ranges from long-time RV guys with the big tip lights,  to the newer 2" tip lights, both guys I know and strangers that I meet at  Oshkosh.

  

 The LE location prevents light from going where you don't  want it (like up) and the shape of the cutout allows it to spread down, to the  front and to the sides, where you do want the light.

 Another benefit to my kits is the great diversity in lamps  that can be used.

 You can start with any one of the kits and be assured of a  simple upgrade to newer lamps as they come available or as your needs  change.

  

 At some point in the future, LED lamps will be a great  solution.  While they are very bright to 'look at' (making them a good  solution for running lights and brake lights, especially with their low power  draw), they still don't project enough light over a long distance (as compared  to HID).

  

 Dollar per Lumen, the HID lights are currently the  brightest, they last long, and have a low draw.

  

 I understand that the newer tip with the cutout is a very  tempting place to put lights, and for some pilot's needs that option is  acceptable.

 For those that  want a complete, flexible solution, you may want to take another look at the  Duckworks lights.

  

Please feel free to contact me if you have  questions. Don

 Duckworks  Aviation LLC

  

   

 From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob  Leffler

Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2007 4:47 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Landing Light  Question

 

  

Albert, 

  

Are you using the standard Van’s  OP36 kit? 

  

Although I would suspect if  there are shadowing issues, they would be present in all the other wing tip  vendors solutions too. 

  

Thanks, 

  

bob 

    

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Albert  Gardner

Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2007 9:41 PM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Landing Light  Question



 

  

I’m not  happy with the wingtip lights myself. If I try to get them to converge toward  the center so that the center stripe shows up, the wingtip blocks a lot of the  light. I think I will add an additional light either in the cowl or in the  leading edge of one wing. The light themselves are bright enough I think but  leave a very dark area right in front of the plane. 

Albert  Gardner 

Yuma,  AZ 

  

-----Original  Message-----

I’m just getting ready to order my wings. 

For those of you that are flying,  would you make a different decision on what lighting you installed or would  you  do the same thing in your next aircraft? 

I’m debating between the Duckworks  HID in the leading edge or a HID in the wingtip. 

Thanks, 

Bob 

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msausen

Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 559
Location: Appleton, WI USA

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

This comment is geared more to the DIY crowd out there, hey we are building experimental aircraft aren't we.  If you look around the net a little you can make comparable setups to the Aerosun's for probably $50 in change.  If you break down the Aerosun product into individual LED's you end up with 200 lumens per LED for the 1600 and 100 lumens per LED for the 800.  A quick check on eBay shows Luxeon 95 Lumen LED's for about $2.95 each plus shipping.  So for 8 of these you are looking at about $29.55 + another $15 or so for 10 lenses for them.



  Again, I spent maybe 5 minutes looking around for current LED prices so I'm sure you can do better if you really hunt a bit.  I'm also fairly certain Luxeon is selling LED's up above 150 Lumens each.  Not knocking the Aerosuns product, they actually seem reasonably priced given development and the whole packaging.  LED's are going to continue to get cheaper and brighter.



Michael



--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:05 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

Don, 

 

For the most part I really like your product. The were some contradictions in you installation instructions that 

need to be cleared up as the pictures show one thing but the, directions say another, (distances from rivet lines.) Also the distances between 

the ribs were quite different from what the manual stated and I needed to make my own alterations to the lamp trays. I used the 

second bay between ribs and not the last bay as I wanted more access to the AOA installation in the last bay. The last bay on the 10

also has quite a long span between ribs which would also allow much more of a harmonic to develop with engine and flight vibration.

 

For the most part, nice kit and thanks.

 

John G. 409

 

 

From: dasduck(at)comcast.netTo: rv10-list(at)matronics.comSubject: Landing Light QuestionDate: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:05:56 -0800



Bob,

I have heard from many RV pilots that they wished they would have used my Leading Edge lights instead of the tip lights, especially due to the 'blanking' issue.

This ranges from long-time RV guys with the big tip lights, to the newer 2" tip lights, both guys I know and strangers that I meet at Oshkosh.

 

The LE location prevents light from going where you don't want it (like up) and the shape of the cutout allows it to spread down, to the front and to the sides, where you do want the light.

Another benefit to my kits is the great diversity in lamps that can be used

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2882

Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: Landing Light Question

You know, Don touched on something I hadn't actually pondered

much in all of this....the fact that you don't want the light

to go UP.  Having used my lights in clouds and at night in

haze, in past planes I've found the light a bit distracting

if it lights up the stuff next to me.  You now are flying

in a brighter bubble of air that makes it a little harder

to see out the windshield where the traffic is.  With the

lights I have now, I don't really even know they're on, on

a clear night, unless there's some haze to see, and at least

then it's lighting it up below the horizon a bit.



I do think that for recognition lights though, if you're

going to wig-wag and just display them for recognition,

LED's are about as ideal as you could get.  I think even

for taxi lights, if you feel you need them, LED's would

be a fair option.  The sad part about the wingtip cutouts

is that the same thing that gives the Nav lights good

utility (the large field of view to the sides, top,

bottom, and somewhat of the front) is one of the

problems with using that location for landing lights.  Not

that you absolutely can't put landing lights there and

see some of the runway, but it's much harder to mount

them there and get anything but runway edges lit up.



My old plane had a single 250W landing light. Man, that

sucker was 20A!!  I did the best I could on that plane and

added another light bay since it had 2 holes in one wing.

I went with 2 lamps, 100W Halogen....saved some current

draw.  The problem with the halogens was that the actual

beam width was about 1/2 of what the 250W standard was.

So I had to be careful to aim one across the plane and

one forward.  I had enough brightness, but the coverage

wasn't as nice as the 250W was.  So that's why I mentioned

before that you should watch the actual beam width

projected by whatever bulb you choose, for whatever

location you use.



Regarding Aerosun's...as I walked by them at OSH they

commented to me and tried to lure me in.  I stopped

and looked and they actually look pretty nice compared

to some options.  The guy started pushing me on how

much brighter they would be then too.....but that

stopped the second I told him I had dual HID's.  They

aren't bad lights, but they don't hold a candle(power)

to HID's, and HID's also are pretty competitive in

their current draw.  My dual 35W HID's draw about 6A

on my Ammeter.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

don wentz wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Bob,

 I have heard from many RV pilots that they wished they would have used 

 my Leading Edge lights instead of the tip lights, especially due to the 

 'blanking' issue.

 This ranges from long-time RV guys with the big tip lights, to the newer 

 2" tip lights, both guys I know and strangers that I meet at Oshkosh.

  

 The LE location prevents light from going where you don't want it (like 

 up) and the shape of the cutout allows it to spread down, to the front 

 and to the sides, where you do want the light.

 Another benefit to my kits is the great diversity in lamps that can be used.

 You can start with any one of the kits and be assured of a simple 

 upgrade to newer lamps as they come available or as your needs change.

  

 At some point in the future, LED lamps will be a great solution.  While 

 they are very bright to 'look at' (making them a good solution for 

 running lights and brake lights, especially with their low power draw), 

 they still don't project enough light over a long distance (as compared 

 to HID).

  

 Dollar per Lumen, the HID lights are currently the brightest, they last 

 long, and have a low draw.

  

 I understand that the newer tip with the cutout is a very tempting place 

 to put lights, and for some pilot's needs that option is acceptable.

 For those that want a complete, flexible solution, you may want to take 

 another look at the Duckworks lights.

  

 Please feel free to contact me if you have questions.

 Don

 Duckworks Aviation LLC

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