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dougsnash
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281
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 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:19 am Post subject: A65 701 |
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I thought the max engine weight for the 701 was 200 lbs. The A65 should be okay but would be a bit underpowered for its weight.
As for the 701 not falling into the Ultralight category, if it has a registered gross weight of 1200lbs or less, it can be flown by an Ultralight pilot regardless of whether the plane is registered as an ultralight or not. In fact, an ultralight pilot can fly a certified aircraft in there were very many with gross weights below 1200lbs and stall speeds below 45 MPH in the landing configuration. I think there is a certain model of Piper Vagabond with an A65 that fits within the Canadian Ultralight rules.
If the 701 is registered as an Amateur Built it is better off anyway. The plane has had to go through the MDRA inspection process so is therefore probably a better aircraft. There are minimum equipment requirements for Amateur Built Aircraft which don't apply to ultralights but these are not major issues. The biggest problem would be maintaining the ELT. Us Canadians can still use the 121.5 ELTs for the time being so this isn't a major deal breaker either. Additionally, an Amateur Built aircraft requires a maintenance schedule and an annual inspection but likewise, these issues only make the plane better. The annual can be signed off by the owner of the aircraft (Canada doesn't have the Builder Certificate like the US).
From what you are describing, it sounds like the biggest issue would be the A65 being a little underpowered for the weight of the plane. The best bet would be for the prospective purchaser to go for a test flight. If the A65 is going to work, great. If not, then the purchase price could be adjusted to compensate for the fact that the plane will need to be re-engined. People will argue against my opinion but it is hard to beat a 912 Rotax in the 701. Yes, they are expensive but they do the job they are intended to do better than the competition. I have the 80 HP 912 and it's great on wheels. You would probably need the 100hp to fly two up on floats. I've heard of 701s on wheels cruising consistently in the high 90s (MPH) with the 100 HP engine which is much better that my 85 MPH with the 80 HP. I suppose it comes down to what the intended mission of the plane will be.
Hope this info has helped.
Doug M
701 from scratch (Amateur Built)
NW Ontario, Canada
From: AJR <ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 6:32:01 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/17/13
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "AJR" <ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca (ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca)>
Hi guys
I have a friend who is looking at buying a scratch built ch-701..
This aircraft has a A65 Continental engine rated at 65 hp and engine is 74 years old.
The engine dry weights 175 lbs so it would be beyond the maximum engine weight
allowed for the 701.. with prop , oil, exhaust, mount, etc it would be well over the
maximum engine weight for the 701 recommended..Also the engine has to be hand
propped as it has no electric start..The aircraft does not fall in the ultralight category
for Canada so is under the homebuilt experimental category..Cruise on this engine is 2150
rpm and redline is 2300.. The 65 hp engine does not seem to be much power for a ch701
Am I missing something here..I would appreciate and thoughts or suggestions on this
aircraft..Also what would be the minimum HP required and suggested for this aircraft.
AJR
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john.marzulli(at)gmail.co
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:07 am Post subject: A65 701 |
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On the 100HP Rotax I get 85MPH cruise at 5100RPM, 87 (at)5300.
My plane has the larger mains, slats and bare struts. Prop the is the factory default 3-bladed Warp Drive pitched at 11.5 degrees.
YMMV
John Marzulli
http://MarzulliPhoto.net/
http://701Builder.blogspot.com/
On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 7:19 AM, MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com (dougsnash(at)yahoo.com)> wrote:
[quote] I thought the max engine weight for the 701 was 200 lbs. The A65 should be okay but would be a bit underpowered for its weight.
As for the 701 not falling into the Ultralight category, if it has a registered gross weight of 1200lbs or less, it can be flown by an Ultralight pilot regardless of whether the plane is registered as an ultralight or not. In fact, an ultralight pilot can fly a certified aircraft in there were very many with gross weights below 1200lbs and stall speeds below 45 MPH in the landing configuration. I think there is a certain model of Piper Vagabond with an A65 that fits within the Canadian Ultralight rules.
If the 701 is registered as an Amateur Built it is better off anyway. The plane has had to go through the MDRA inspection process so is therefore probably a better aircraft. There are minimum equipment requirements for Amateur Built Aircraft which don't apply to ultralights but these are not major issues. The biggest problem would be maintaining the ELT. Us Canadians can still use the 121.5 ELTs for the time being so this isn't a major deal breaker either. Additionally, an Amateur Built aircraft requires a maintenance schedule and an annual inspection but likewise, these issues only make the plane better. The annual can be signed off by the owner of the aircraft (Canada doesn't have the Builder Certificate like the US).
From what you are describing, it sounds like the biggest issue would be the A65 being a little underpowered for the weight of the plane. The best bet would be for the prospective purchaser to go for a test flight. If the A65 is going to work, great. If not, then the purchase price could be adjusted to compensate for the fact that the plane will need to be re-engined. People will argue against my opinion but it is hard to beat a 912 Rotax in the 701. Yes, they are expensive but they do the job they are intended to do better than the competition. I have the 80 HP 912 and it's great on wheels. You would probably need the 100hp to fly two up on floats. I've heard of 701s on wheels cruising consistently in the high 90s (MPH) with the 100 HP engine which is much better that my 85 MPH with the 80 HP. I suppose it comes down to what the intended mission of the plane will be.
Hope this info has helped.
Doug M
701 from scratch (Amateur Built)
NW Ontario, Canada
From: AJR <ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca (ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca)>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com (zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com)
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 6:32:01 AM
Subject: Zenith701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/17/13
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "AJR" <ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca (ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca)>
Hi guys
I have a friend who is looking at buying a scratch built ch-701..
This aircraft has a A65 Continental engine rated at 65 hp and engine is 74 years old.
The engine dry weights 175 lbs so it would be beyond the maximum engine weight
allowed for the 701.. with prop , oil, exhaust, mount, etc it would be well over the
maximum engine weight for the 701 recommended..Also the engine has to be hand
propped as it has no electric start..The aircraft does not fall in the ultralight category
for Canada so is under the homebuilt experimental category..Cruise on this engine is 2150
rpm and redline is 2300.. The 65 hp engine does not seem to be much power for a ch701
Am I missing something here..I would appreciate and thoughts or suggestions on this
aircraft..Also what would be the minimum HP required and suggested for this aircraft.
AJR
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ist" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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pdelano(at)telus.net
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject: A65 701 |
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Hi Doug,Thanks for spreading the logic on registration alternatives. I had been starting to slide back into the AE frame of mind, but you make a good case for amateur built. I hope to get the flying surfaces ready for MDRA inspection this year. Rudder hz tail there, working on wings.Enjoyed your thoughts on slats too. I want to go as low and slow as possible so no vg's for me either.Regards,PerrySent wirelessly from my BlackBerry device on the Bell network.Envoyé sans fil par mon terminal mobile BlackBerry sur le réseau de Bell.
From: MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com>
Sender: owner-zenith701801-list-server(at)matronics.com
Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2013 07:19:05 -0700 (PDT)
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com<zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com>
ReplyTo: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Zenith701801-List: A65 701
I thought the max engine weight = for the 701 was 200 lbs. The A65 should be okay but would be a bit un= derpowered for its weight.
As for the 701 not falling into th= e Ultralight category, if it has a registered gross weight of 1200lbs or le= ss, it can be flown by an Ultralight pilot regardless of whether the plane = is registered as an ultralight or not. In fact, an ultralight pilot c= an fly a certified aircraft in there were very many with gross weights belo= w 1200lbs and stall speeds below 45 MPH in the landing configuration. = I think there is a certain model of Piper Vagabond with an A65 that fits w= ithin the Canadian Ultralight rules.
If the 701 is registered as an = Amateur Built it is better off anyway. The plane has had to go throug= h the MDRA inspection process so is therefore probably a better aircraft. There are minimum equipment requirements for Amateur Built= Aircraft which don't apply to ultralights but these are not major issues.&= nbsp; The biggest problem would be maintaining the ELT. Us Canadians = can still use the 121.5 ELTs for the time being so this isn't a major deal = breaker either. Additionally, an Amateur Built aircraft requires a ma= intenance schedule and an annual inspection but likewise, these issues only= make the plane better. The annual can be signed off by the owner of = the aircraft (Canada doesn't have the Builder Certificate like the US).
=
From what you are describing, it sounds like the biggest issue would be= the A65 being a little underpowered for the weight of the plane. The= best bet would be for the prospective purchaser to go for a test flight.&n= bsp; If the A65 is going to work, great. If not, then the purchase pr= ice could be adjusted to compensate for the fact that the plane will need to be re-engined. People will argue against my opinion but it i= s hard to beat a 912 Rotax in the 701. Yes, they are expensive but th= ey do the job they are intended to do better than the competition. I = have the 80 HP 912 and it's great on wheels. You would probably need = the 100hp to fly two up on floats. I've heard of 701s on wheels cruis= ing consistently in the high 90s (MPH) with the 100 HP engine which is much= better that my 85 MPH with the 80 HP. I suppose it comes down to wha= t the intended mission of the plane will be.
Hope this info has help= ed.
Doug M
701 from scratch (Amateur Built)
NW Ontario, Canada
<= /span>
Fro= m: AJR <ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca>
To: zenith701801-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 18, 2013 6:= 32:01 AM
Subject: Zeni= th701801-List: Re: Zenith701801-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 03/17/13
=
--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: "AJR" <ajroseca(at)nf.sympatico.ca ([email]ajroseca(at)nf.sym= patico.ca[/email])>
Hi guys
I have a frie= nd who is looking at buying a scratch built ch-701..
This aircraft has a= A65 Continental engine rated at 65 hp and engine is 74 years old.
The e= ngine dry weights 175 lbs so it would be beyond the maximum engine weightallowed for the 701.. with prop , oil, exhaust, mount, etc it would be we= ll over the
maximum engine weight for the 701 recommended..Also the engi= ne has to be hand
propped as it has no electric start..The aircraft does= not fall in the ultralight category
for Canada so is under the homebuil= t experimental category..Cruise on this engine is 2150
rpm and redline i= s 2300.. The 65 hp engine does not seem to be much power for a ch701=
Am I missing something here..I would appreciate and thoughts or suggest= ions on this
aircraft..Also what would be the minimum HP required and suggested for this aircraft.
AJR
[quote][b]
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