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Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

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herbgh

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 145

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

Kolb Guys were likely in Florida last week...   Try their phone... They

always answer... They walk around with these little wires sticking out of

their heads..   Herb 



On Sun, 16 Apr 2006 06:37:58 -0700 "DrHook" <csgale(at)yahoo.com> writes:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 I am trying to fix the damaged nose fairing on my Firestar. Its 

 pretty buggered up and was wondering how much a new one would cost 

 me.

 I have checked the New Kolb Aircrafts Website, and even E-mailed for 

 a pricelist, to no avail.

 Anybody know how or where to look for stuff? 

 There are some other specific Firestar parts I will be replacing 

 during the re-build.

 Thanks Chris

 

 --------

 Kolb Firestar owner, Rebuild-Recover job at hand.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28701#28701

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2006 6:07 am Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

| I have checked the New Kolb Aircrafts Website, and even E-mailed 

for a pricelist, to no avail.

 | Thanks Chris



Call Travis, Kolb Parts, tomorrow morning bight and early.



The Kolb Team has been away to S&F.  When that happens, things slow 

down a bit.



john h

mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

Dr. , When doing fiberglass work, the rule is that you can put epoxy over

polyester, but not polyester over epoxy. Bondo is polyester. You can use it,

but eventually it is going to bubble up and then start to flake off taking

your paint job with it. Better to mix up what is known as heavy micro. Order

Micro ballons from Spruce, Wick's or a local supplier. Mix up a small batch

of epoxy (1/4 cup max) add micro balloons until it has the consistancy of

stiff cream (always wear a face mask when using micro balloons, they're tiny

glass bubbles) and apply with a squeegee. Put on a nicely skimmed, thin

layer. The next day, sand, and repeat until you have the surface you're

ready to prime. If you have lots of pin holes (you WILL) use pure epoxy

applied with a single edge razor blade as a squeegee to fill them. This may

take several applications, too.

If you ever wondered about it, it generally takes longer to fill and smooth

a Long EZ or Varieze than it does to build the entire stucture of the

aircraft, it just depends on what you want the finished product to look

like.



On 4/17/06, DrHook <csgale(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 Ya, But I got the Golden Egg!!! This little girl was about to grab it, so

 I pushed her down, and grabbed it myself [Laughing]

 OK, OK your right Mike, But you only seen the good side of it.

 On the inside,

 I was able to take a couple of strips of 4oz. fibrglass cloth and 30 min

 epoxy on 2 of the real bad rips in it and it seems like it is going to work.

 I cleaned the suface with acetone, then sanded and the epoxy has really

 bonded.

 There are going to be some pretty bad gaps, on the outside though.

 What would you suggest? Can I use some kind of bondo?

 I am going to re-inforce the area's where it attach'es to the fuse cage

 using the fiberglass-epoxy strip and I guess I better do the same around the

 Top where I will need to attach the new short windsheild.

 But still, Is there a parts list for the Firestar from Kolb?



 Thanks for the nudge, Mike and Bob.

 I couldn't find spell check here, So please, grade me on the curve 



 --------

 Kolb Firestar owner, Rebuild-Recover job at hand.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D28877#28877




	




--

Rick Girard

"Pining for a home on the Range"

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

Don't use Bondo.  Poly-Fiber makes a product called "Super Fil" that is a 

lightweight epoxy/microballoon mix that sands out to a feather edge and is 

quite strong - but not to be used where structural strength is needed.  You 

could also order microballoons from System 3 or Gougeon (sp ??) and mix your 

own.  For structural repairs, I'd use silica or chopped glass as a filler, 

or even, since it'll probably be painted, wood flour.  I haven't worked much 

with the 30 minute epoxies, mainly because of my understanding of their 

being less than ideal over long term or some conditions of 

humidity/moisture.  System 3 has some excellent literature available.  Jim 

and Dondi will probably have Super Fil;  for other products, I've been using 

Jamestown Distributors in RI with pleasure and success for some time. 

Lar.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com

---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:15 am Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

There ya have it.......more complete answer than mine.  This answer appeared 

just after I clicked the 'send' button.  Thanks, Richard. 

Do not Archive.



Larry Bourne

Palm Springs, CA

Building Kolb Mk III

N78LB  Vamoose

www.gogittum.com



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

a58r(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

If you'd need a lot of Bondo, it weighs a lot..use micro balloons  

which cost more but weigh next to nothing.

regards,

Bob N.

http://www.angelfire.com/rpg/ronoy/



do not archive

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:05 pm Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

 	  Quote: 	
		  

  Why are you using Epoxy....instead of Fiberglass "Resin" w/hardener?

The hardware store 30 minute epoxy isn't too bad.  The 5 minute stuff 
	


is worthless.

It should be used with either random mat  or woven.  Ok for an internal

reinforcing patch on a crack or split.

I used the "AlphaPoxy" laminating resin from ACSpruce for my nose plug.

A gallon will do a lot of work.



The polyester resins used in the bondo type compounds will shrink and

debond with exposure to light and heat.  If used as a cosmetic filler 

the

ones with the chopped glass in them like "Tiger Hair" are ok.



For smoothing fussy little low spots a quick hardening polyester spot 

putty

like EverCoat Spot-Lite is handy.

-BB



 	  Quote: 	
		   ...I think I



 would grind that epoxy out of there....and do all the repairs with 

 fiberglass



 ...that would be the strongest...I think the epoxy would separate after



 some flexing...



  Some repairs call for "chopping" up the fiberglass cloth....kind of 

 laying



 it down like that plywood stuff....

  Parts List...?  Call Kolb...

   Gotta Fly...

 Mike in MN

 DrHook wrote:

> Ya, But I got the Golden Egg!!! This little girl was about to grab 

> it, so I pushed her down, and grabbed it myself [Laughing]

> OK, OK your right Mike, But you only seen the good side of it.

> On the inside,

> I was able to take a couple of strips of 4oz. fibrglass cloth and 30 

> min epoxy on 2 of the real bad rips in it and it seems like it is 

> going to work.

> I cleaned the suface with acetone, then sanded and the epoxy has 

> really bonded.

> There are going to be some pretty bad gaps, on the outside though.

> What would you suggest? Can I use some kind of bondo?

> I am going to re-inforce the area's where it attach'es to the fuse 

> cage using the fiberglass-epoxy strip and I guess I better do the 

> same around the Top where I will need to attach the new short 

> windsheild.

> But still, Is there a parts list for the Firestar from Kolb?

>

> Thanks for the nudge, Mike and Bob.

> I couldn't find spell check here, So please, grade me on the curve 

 --------

 .

 .

 .

 .

 .Do not archive





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=28988#28988

Steve Boetto

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 364

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:15 pm Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

In a message dated 4/17/2006 9:00:43 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,  

jindoguy(at)gmail.com writes:



Micro  ballons from Spruce, Wick's or a local supplier. Mix up a small batch

of  epoxy (1/4 cup max) add micro balloons until it has the consistency  of

stiff cream (always wear a face mask when using micro balloons, they're  tiny

glass bubbles) and apply with a squeegee. Put on a nicely skimmed,  thin

layer. The next day, sand, and repeat until you have the surface  you're

ready to prime. If you have lots of pin holes (you WILL) use pure  epoxy

applied with a single edge razor blade as a squeegee to fill them.  This may

take several applications, too.

If you ever wondered about it,  it generally takes longer to fill and smooth

a Long EZ or Varieze than it  does to build the entire structure of the

aircraft, it just depends on what  you want the finished product to look

like.



After building a Long Ez to Show Quality I think I can comment on this.  

Epoxy and polyester can be compatible in any case as long as the preparation is  

ok. If you have a crushed part like a nose,  there are several ways to  repair 

it  depending on the specifics. I repaired a wheelpant once and it  looked 

better than the other one. feel free to call me during daytime office  hours at 

407 947 0708 and I will try to help. Depending on your specifics it can  be a 

lengthy topic.

 

Steve B

Firefly #007

DrHook

Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 13
Location: Knights Landing CA

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:12 am Post subject: Re: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

Hey, I just noticed there are two Threads here with the same subject that I posted. So thanks guys and sorry for not replying, Herb, John, Rick, Larry, Bob & Steve.

So I will post back in both, I guess. Here is what I ended up doing and replying back to Mike.

 

Its all good, Mike

I got the day off yesterday, and went to town, to OSH and found this glass bondo stuff that has shredded peices of fiberglass in it, with a tube of hardener. It works great, and it was only $8.95 for a can of it.

Per instructions I cut some peices of 4oz fiberglass cloth on the real bad whole and rips that I didnt use the epoxy, on the inside of the nose fairing, and filled the wholes & cracks on the outside.

It bonds really well, and drying time is quick. I just got some small Voids to fill in, and its all about primer & paint.

The epoxy I used was 30 min epoxy, and I know that stuff is not going anywhere.

I think I spent more time just pondering on weather or not to fix it or re-place it, than it took me to get it done.

Bob E-mailed me with some suggestions on primer & paint thats I will try.

_________________
Kolb Firestar owner, Rebuild-Recover job at hand.

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

Well darn, Doc. If I'd known you hadn't done the patch yet, I'd have given

you some tips to save a lot of finish work.

Safety first. Always wear saftey glasses when working with epoxy of any

kind. The hardner is a corrosive agent and a splash in the eye will cause

significant damage if not blind you. The doctors in the ER may minimize the

damage but they cannot reverse it. Always wear protection on your hands, I

use Nitrile gloves after I've smeared on a good layer of liquid gloves.

Epoxy causes a rash like reaction on the skin. Some people are more

sensitive than others, but the reaction can be severe enough to lead to

shock and death. If you are not sensitvie, you can create the sensitivity by

repeated exposure. Work in a well ventilated area, the fumes, even from low

odor epoxy can bring on a reaction, too. It sounds scary, but like most

things, it's just a matter of common sense and good work habits.

The Good Doctor got the surface prep correct. You can't make a chemical bond

between the old substrate and the new 'glass, you'll have to settle for a

good mechanical bond, so rough up the area at least 2" on either side of the

area to be patched. 220 grit sandpaper is the stuff to use but make sure it

has no stearates in it as that will effect bond strength.

You need a couple of other things besides fiberglass and resin to make the

repair EZ to finish. Saran wrap, or other plastic sheeting, Peel Ply ( 100%

polyester cloth ), and a few 1" chip brushes for stippling the resin up

through the cloth. you can buy peel ply at the fabric shop, it's known as

dress sheathing. If you buy it there, make sure it has no sizing agent

applied to it. Sizing agents contain silicone and will ruin the bond

strength of the patch and make further repairs or painting very difficult,

if not impossible. Spruce and Wick's have peel ply in 1" to 6" rolls, as

well as cloth. Buy whatever will overlap the edges of the patch 2" all

around.

An aside here, buy new 'glass to make the repair, don't use any cloth that

is dirty or has been wet. First, because you need to know if the cloth is

UNI (unidirectional cloth, having almost all it's strength in one direction)

or BID (bidirectional cloth that has a roughly equal fiber count in either

direction) You want to use BID. Second, because fiberglass cloth has a

wetting agent applied to it at the factory that does two things. It acts as

a lubricant so that the fibers slide past each other when the glass moves

and stretches and it acts to help break the surface tension so the resin can

wet out the 'glass rather than just encapsulate it. This wetting agent can

also be resin specific. If it comes from the auto parts store the 'glass

could have a wetting agent that works with polyester resin, but not with

epoxy. The kid at the counter will probably have no clue, should you ask. If

in doubt go to a boat shop or better yet, just order the BID cloth approved

by Burt Rutan for his aircraft from Spruce or Wick's. You'll know if the

resin is wetting out the cloth if the cloth changes color to that of the

resin. If the cloth remains white ( a drop of sweat makes a nice white

circle so wear a bandana ), it means the cloth is not wetted out, throw it

away and go get good cloth. Okay, on with the repair.

Cut your patch strips of fiberglass cloth on the bias (threads at 45 degrees

to cut), this lets the glass move and form around curves without puckering

at the edges. Lay out a sheet of Saran wrap, lay your glass on it and work

the resin into the fibers. Once the fiberglass is completely wetted out,

place another piece of plastic over it and squeegee the plastic, fiberglass,

plastic sandwich to work all the excess resin to the edges of the glass and

away from the cloth. All that's required is to wet out the glass, any more

resin than that is excess weight and does nothing for the strength of the

bond or the glass. Peel off the top layer of plastic, apply a light coat of

pure resin to the area to be patched and use the remaining layer of plastic

to control the glass while you put it on the patch area. Peel off the

remaining plastic sheet and squeegee the cloth working from the center to

the edges. Lay the peel ply over the repair area and smooth out. If you

don't use peel ply, the edges of the 'glass will curl and are a bear to

feather out nicely. Don't wet out the peel ply all the way to the edge, you

need to be able to grab it to peel it off after the resin has cured. Once

the peel ply is wetted out you can check your layup by rubbing the peel ply

with paper towels to pull more resin out of the layup. Use caution here as

you can create a resin starved layup if you rub too much. Remember the idea

is have only enough resin to wet out the 'glass and no more. Once the layup

and peel ply are all smoothed out, clean up and have a beer. Incidently,

white vinegar will remove uncured resin from tools like scissors but you

need to oil the tool after cleaning to prevent surface corrosion. My new W20

shears have a nice light brown patina because I forgot this, once.

It's the next day and the resin has cured. Grab the peel ply at a corner and

pull across the patch, not straight up from it, work all around the edges

toward the center. You should find that the 'glass is nicely filled with

resin, requiring very little filler and the edges are nicely tapered out to

the old surface of the part. Sand and fill as described yesterday.



On 4/18/06, DrHook <csgale(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 Hey, I just noticed there are two Threads here with the same subject that

 I posted. So thanks guys and sorry for not replying, Herb, John, Rick,

 Larry, Bob & Steve.

 So I will post back in both, I guess. Here is what I ended up doing and

 replying back to Mike.



 Its all good, Mike

 I got the day off yesterday, and went to town, to OSH and found this glass

 bondo stuff that has shredded peices of fiberglass in it, with a tube of

 hardener. It works great, and it was only $8.95 for a can of it.

 Per instructions I cut some peices of 4oz fiberglass cloth on the real bad

 whole and rips that I didnt use the epoxy, on the inside of the nose

 fairing, and filled the wholes & cracks on the outside.

 It bonds really well, and drying time is quick. I just got some small

 Voids to fill in, and its all about primer & paint.

 The epoxy I used was 30 min epoxy, and I know that stuff is not going

 anywhere.

 I think I spent more time just pondering on weather or not to fix it or

 re-place it, than it took me to get it done.

 Bob E-mailed me with some suggestions on primer & paint thats I will try.



 --------

 Kolb Firestar owner, Rebuild-Recover job at hand.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D29081#29081




	




--

Rick Girard

"Pining for a home on the Range"

DrHook

Joined: 06 Apr 2006
Posts: 13
Location: Knights Landing CA

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:31 am Post subject: Re: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

Great Info Rick!!! Wow, That just about Sum's it Up. Are you sure you didnt leave anything out?

Seriously guys, thanks for your help.

Chris



Dr. Marvin, "Is this some kinda new theropy?"

Baby Steps

_________________
Kolb Firestar owner, Rebuild-Recover job at hand.

jindoguy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:00 am Post subject: Nose Fairing, & other parts for the Firestar

Doc, I tried to hit the high spots. Much of what I descibed is known as "the

poor man's vacuum bagging method".

On 4/19/06, DrHook <csgale(at)yahoo.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 



 Great Info Rick!!! Wow, That just about Sum's it Up. Are you sure you

 didnt leave anything out?

 Seriously guys, thanks for your help.

 Chris



 Dr. Marvin, "Is this some kinda new theropy?"

 Baby Steps



 --------

 Kolb Firestar owner, Rebuild-Recover job at hand.





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D29341#29341




	




--

Rick Girard

"Pining for a home on the Range"

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