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This gaping hole (nose gear)

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frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

I'm building a tri-gear, and cut out the bottom of the fuselage for the nose gear per instructions. Apparently, the idea in the manual is to leave it as is. What are the aerodynamic properties of this hole? is it sucking air out of the well, or is it building pressure?



I just closed it, by installing a plate in the nose gear system. If the nose gear activates the spring, the plate opens with it since it is attached to the frame. Normally it just blocks off this hole.

Of course I hope that it will be beneficial. Has someone else been closing this hole as well? If so, was it beneficial?



Frans

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 12:30 pm Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Frans,

 I didn't see anyone post an answer so take it from a guy who has built and  flown a half dozen Tri=gears.

  

 The hole gives you 100 square inches of air exit, greatly improving  cooling.  Maintenance is a snap on the nose.  Go to Aircraft Spruce  and use the fire wall material kit to completely fireproof the opening.  I  use the firewall material and seal all the edges with stainless just to dress it  up.

  

 As far as the speed penalty, if I can still get 140 kts with a 914 at 75%  power at sea level with a tri-gear.  I don't see a down side.  I've  flown other tri-gears with the standard firewall and they all have cooling  issues and do not go any faster.

  

 As for me...Leave the hole and run cooler.

  

 Bud Yerly 

 Custom Flight Creations

 US Europa Dealer

 www.customflightcreations.com

(813)  653-4989

 [quote]   ---

frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

I was referring to the hole in the bottom. It appears you are talking about the hole between the nose gear and the engine, where we are supposed to install this stainless firewall thing.



You didn't quite answer my question then, but introduced a new idea about leaving the firewall out and make a duct out of this well, is this correct?



Too bad I just installed this stainless thing, AND closed the entire bottom of the tunnel section, including the part where the nosegear protrudes to the outside world...



Frans

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

christoph.both(at)acadiau
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:39 am Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

Hi Bud:  

Can you give, by any chance the order number of the Aircraft Spruce “firewall material”? There are several choices. Do you perhaps mean the Stainless Steel mat?          

[/url]                                                                                              <![endif]--><![if !vml]>[url=http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000.php][img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C913E9.B3360760[/img]<![endif]>[/url]         

10. [url=http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000.php]FIREWALL   2000 CERAMIC BLANKET   

This blanket is .250 inch thick, weighs only 9.5 oz/sq. ft.   and is flexible enough to cover compound curves. The heat side of the blanket   is covered with stainless steel, the other side is aluminum It is easy to   rivet or can be glued into position.   

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000.php   - 1.0kb        

   

Christoph Both  

#223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia Canada  

       

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY

 Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 5:28 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: This gaping hole (nose gear)  

  

  

       

Frans,  

    

I didn't see anyone post an answer so take it from a guy who has built and flown a half dozen Tri=gears.  

    

   

    

The hole gives you 100 square inches of air exit, greatly improving cooling.  Maintenance is a snap on the nose.  Go to Aircraft Spruce and use the fire wall material kit to completely fireproof the opening.  I use the firewall material and seal all the edges with stainless just to dress it up.  

    

   

    

As far as the speed penalty, if I can still get 140 kts with a 914 at 75% power at sea level with a tri-gear.  I don't see a down side.  I've flown other tri-gears with the standard firewall and they all have cooling issues and do not go any faster.  

    

   

    

As for me...Leave the hole and run cooler.  

    

   

    

Bud Yerly   

    

Custom Flight Creations  

    

US Europa Dealer  

    

www.customflightcreations.com

 (813) 653-4989  

  [quote]    

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budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 4:23 am Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Frans, I understand your question now.

  

 I prefer to enclose the bottom, and make a convenient hole about 6X10  inches for access to the now empty wheel cavity.  I have made many cockpit  modules with access covers on the top and have still found an access hole in the  bottom convenient for maintenance.  

  

 Not to open a bucket of worms, some are concerned about cockpit stiffness  in this area in the event of an accident, and my feeling is an enclosed  bottom, reinforced with  1/8 inch foam and two additional layers of  glass, is a light weight and strong reinforcement for forward cabin  stiffness.  Next, I prefer not excessively cut down the module as the  center beam from the engine mount to the floor and sides is somewhat compromised  in the event of a frontal accident.  However, if you do, please do  enclose the mono hole and consider extra glass on the flange for the cover and  make the glass flow down the side of the module.  I personally make  the cover and flange of about 6 layers to ensure stiffness.  I don't  believe in just whacking out the cockpit module and letting the cockpit sides be  your only longitudinal stiffness.  The poor cockpit floor has to accept a  lot of stress in the event of an off field landing in a tri-gear.  As the  nose wheel digs in, God forbid, the tendency of the nose to be bent  down will buckle the floor with a cut down module.

  

 As for the firewall, it is time well spent to remove the stainless firewall  and enclose the nose gear duct hole with a light ply  bulkhead.   The ply bulkhead will increase cockpit module  stiffness in an accident (as stated above).  Put fire shield in the top,  back and sides and you can sleep easy.  It makes for a cooler engine  compartment, easier gear inspection and maintenance, and should you need to add  a heater off your oil cooler, it is much easier access.   Should you  need quick access to tighten oil cooler lines or look for drips, it’s a God  send.

  

 Bud Yerly

 Custom Flight Creations

(813) 653-4989

 [quote]   ---

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:05 am Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Chris,

 The kit below is just right for the Europa.  Put the aluminum on the  inside.  I have used other mat insulations and covered it in stainless  sheet.  I'm really proud of the stainless one but at three days of cutting  and fitting, I don't recommend it for those who want to save time.  This  kit allows you to put the 4 pieces in (2 sides, top and back).  Put the  back in first, then cut the sides and top.  Ted Coberly of Flight Crafters  showed me a trick of cutting the sheets 1/2 inch longer where they butt and then  trim off the insulation and aluminum from the back where it overlaps and  then wrapping the corners from the sides and top.  Takes a lot more time  and planning, but is pretty, and well sealed. Cut your stainless and  make smooth round transitions from the hole to the fuselage bottom and  cover the edges to show off your craftsmanship.

  

 Reference to A/C Spruce

 5. FIREWALL  2000 KIT



 Contains 24 x48 sheet of Firewall 2000 and one  tube of Firewall caulk.

 http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000kit.php  - 0.6kb

  

 Bud



 Custom Flight Creations

(813) 653-4989

  	  Quote: 	
		      

	


   [quote][b]

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:40 am Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

Hi! Bud /Frans/all  

Since G-PTAG was built as a trike and a potential convertible  Mono wheel later, I have made the bottom panel from the Mono Wheel Well into a belly plate fixed on flanges and removable but with a hinge across the aft 6” to access the wheel well and the fuel pipes, fuel switch and throttle/choke box. Onto the forward section of this belly plate I have mounted all the fuel module and two mini gascolators. All are now very accessible and the gascolators can be checked for water  etc. Also the pumps can be heard from the P1 position as a verification both are running………..eventual mono wheel change ………not by me thanks!. Forward of the wheel well the trike manual calls for an additional firewall/panel to box out the wheel well  void and suitable flanges need constructing to fix it in place.  

Regards  

Bob H   

   

--

frans(at)paardnatuurlijk.
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

[quote:263eb5746d="Bud Yerly"]<xml><xml><endif>  Frans, I understand your question now.



Not to open a bucket of worms, some are concerned about cockpit stiffness in this area in the event of an accident, and my feeling is an enclosed bottom, reinforced with 1/8 inch foam and two additional layers of glass, is a light weight and strong reinforcement for forward cabin stiffness. Next, I prefer not excessively cut down the module as the center beam from the engine mount to the floor and sides is somewhat compromised in the event of a frontal accident.

[/quote:263eb5746d]



I'm not cutting down the cockpit module, I leave it as is. I was talking about the hole where the nose gears exits the bottom, and the hole you need to have to allow the gear to extent if the spring (or bungee) stretches. I closed it, by glassing some plywood under the nosegear assembly. If the spring stretches, it opens together with the nosewheel frame.



Having made this, I wonder if others have also gone this route, and whether it indeed is beneficial to do so.



The down side is that your solution, to extent the engine bay in the nosehweel area, and use the hole as an air exit, is no longer possible. Nice solution by the way!

I now have the metal firewall in place (its original place) but since I'm going to redesign the lower cowling anyway it doesn't matter to much.



BTW I'm going to use a propellor with more twist. Besides giving a better cruise economy, it also provides better cooling. Hope that this will be enough cooling.



Frans

Visit -  www.EuropaOwners.org

ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

<<> BTW I'm going to use a propellor with more twist.>>



Which one and how much twist does it have?



Duncan McF.



---

budyerly(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 1:59 pm Post subject: This gaping hole (nose gear)

<?xml:namespace prefix="v" /><?xml:namespace prefix="o" /><![endif]-->  Keep on working, as a change in the cowl to increase outflow will negate  the need for the hole.  

  

 Bud

 Custom Flight Creations

(813) 653-4989

 [quote]   ---

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