Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Landing the 701

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith701801-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
george.mueller(at)aurora.
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 5:27 am    Post subject: Landing the 701 Reply with quote

I have a question for those who have been flying their 701s for a while. For most of the other airplanes I have flown, the landings go like this: The mains gently kiss the runway, chrip chirp, and the nosewheel is held off and gently and slowly comes down as the energy dissipates. (Ok, that happens some of the time). When I land my 701, the mains touch down more or less gently, but the nosewheel immediately plunks down. The closest I have come to being able to hold the nosewheel off is to hold 3,000 RPM (with an 80hp rotax) all the way down final, and this gives me enough energy to hold the nosewheel off. This seems like a lot of power to carry into the flare. Is the three wheel plunkdown just the way it is? Is there something wrong with my rigging (incidence of horizontal stabilizer, etc)? I do have vortex generators on the elevator. I do not have a forward CG at all, as I have a BRS in the baggage compartment and a rotax up front. Does anyone have any tips? I am thinking of installing an angle of attack indicator to more precisely control things in the landing.


George in Milwaukee
N701GM 912UL 20hrs [quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Back to top
dougsnash



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Landing the 701 Reply with quote

George, sounds to me like you might need to increase
your approach speed a little(lower the nose during
final). This will give you a bit more energy to use
during the flair. You didn't mention what you were
using as an approach speed.

Take this with a grain of salt though as I am basing
this on general light plane expirience and not on
specific 701 expirience as I am currently still
building and have zero hours in a 701.

The Angle of Attack indicator or Lift Reserve
Indicator would probably be a big help in this
situation.

Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch Builder
Canadian Ultralight flight instructor

Do Not Archive

--- george.mueller(at)aurora.org wrote:

Quote:
I have a question for those who have been flying
their 701s for a while.
For most of the other airplanes I have flown, the
landings go like this:
The mains gently kiss the runway, chrip chirp, and
the nosewheel is held
off and gently and slowly comes down as the energy
dissipates. (Ok, that
happens some of the time). When I land my 701, the
mains touch down more
or less gently, but the nosewheel immediately plunks
down. The closest I
have come to being able to hold the nosewheel off is
to hold 3,000 RPM
(with an 80hp rotax) all the way down final, and
this gives me enough
energy to hold the nosewheel off. This seems like a
lot of power to carry
into the flare. Is the three wheel plunkdown just
the way it is? Is
there something wrong with my rigging (incidence of
horizontal stabilizer,
etc)? I do have vortex generators on the elevator.
I do not have a
forward CG at all, as I have a BRS in the baggage
compartment and a rotax
up front. Does anyone have any tips? I am thinking
of installing an
angle of attack indicator to more precisely control
things in the landing.



George in Milwaukee
N701GM 912UL 20hrs

Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Landing the 701 Reply with quote

Almost everyone who flies a 701 / 801 has this same observation. It must the geometry of the airframe to landing gear placement. My 801 does the same thing,, for short landing I carry alot of power, keep it nose high and as slow as I feel safe for the wind conditions and just expect the nose wheel to hit rather firmly... The current fix is the reverse the main gear and that puts the rear wheels farther forward making it less prone to slam the nose down but in the 801,s case you have to notch the gear to fit the attach bracket. If I reverse mine I would have to elongate those notches and that is something I don't want to do.
Tailwinds
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- george.mueller(at)aurora.org wrote:

I have a question for those who have been flying their 701s for a while. For most of the other airplanes I have flown, the landings go like this: The mains gently kiss the runway, chrip chirp, and the nosewheel is held off and gently and slowly comes down as the energy dissipates. (Ok, that happens some of the time). When I land my 701, the mains touch down more or less gently, but the nosewheel immediately plunks down. The closest I have come to being able to hold the nosewheel off is to hold 3,000 RPM (with an 80hp rotax) all the way down final, and this gives me enough energy to hold the nosewheel off. This seems like a lot of power to carry into the flare. Is the three wheel plunkdown just the way it is? Is there something wrong with my rigging (incidence of horizontal stabilizer, etc)? I do have vortex generators on the elevator. I do not have a forward CG at all, as I have a BRS in the baggage compartment and a rotax up front. Does anyone have any tips? I am thinking of installing an angle of attack indicator to more precisely control things in the landing.
George in Milwaukee
N701GM 912UL 20hrs
Quote:


====================================
1-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
====================================
tronics.com
====================================
www.matronics.com/contribution
====================================



_____________________________________________________________
Click for online loan, fast & no lender fee, approval today
[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Back to top
dougsnash



Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 281

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:47 am    Post subject: Landing the 701 Reply with quote

Unfortunately, reversing the 701 landing gear won't
help as it is not a tapered part as in the 601 or 801.

Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch builder
NW Ontario, Canada

Do not archive

--- "n801bh(at)netzero.com" <n801bh(at)netzero.com> wrote:

Quote:
Almost everyone who flies a 701 / 801 has this same
observation. It must the geometry of the airframe to
landing gear placement. My 801 does the same thing,,
for short landing I carry alot of power, keep it
nose high and as slow as I feel safe for the wind
conditions and just expect the nose wheel to hit
rather firmly... The current fix is the reverse the
main gear and that puts the rear wheels farther
forward making it less prone to slam the nose down
but in the 801,s case you have to notch the gear to
fit the attach bracket. If I reverse mine I would
have to elongate those notches and that is something
I don't want to do.
Tailwinds


Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ


- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ggower_99(at)yahoo.com
Guest





PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: Landing the 701 Reply with quote

What I have learned in this years is that this condition (heavy nose wheel) is a bonus, is part of the stability of the airplane in the ground... desingned in the Zenith airplanes (for low hours a year pilots).

I have landed in some grass strips that are far from Golf course quality Smile and in the roll out or "fasterly" taxi the front wheel bounces... Could hit the tail if was more light loaded.

In the time I have flying ours (me about 80 of the total hours, others are my brothers) We have developed an instinctive way to hold the nose wheel up at roll out and then gentle let it go when the elevator is loosing force, most of the times it does not bounce, but on the other side, some of the bounces of the front wheel are capable of ashame me in front of pilots Smile

Saludos
Gary Gower.
Do not archive.

MacDonald Doug <dougsnash(at)yahoo.com> wrote:
[quote]--> Zenith701801-List message posted by: MacDonald Doug

Unfortunately, reversing the 701 landing gear won't
help as it is not a tapered part as in the 601 or 801.

Doug MacDonald
CH-701 Scratch builder
NW Ontario, Canada

Do not archive

--- "n801bh(at)netzero.com" wrote:

[quote] Almost everyone who flies a 701 / 801 has this same
observation. It must the geometry of the airframe to
landing gear placement. My 801 does the same thing,,
for short landing I carry alot of power, keep it
nose high and as slow as I feel safe for the wind
conditions and just expect the nose wheel to hit
rather firmly... The current Be a better friend, newshound, and [quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Back to top
peterlthomson(at)gmail.co
Guest





PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 2:29 am    Post subject: Landing the 701 Reply with quote

I put my VG's under the elevator (www.stolspeed.com) and find I can hold the nosewheel off the ground on a fast taxi.

Occasionally I get the nosewheel plunking down or a 3pter, but most usually it is mains first and then the nosewheel in orderly fashion.

It took a while to get there as 701 quite different to the feel of larger GA a/c, etc. [quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Back to top
321PT



Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:20 am    Post subject: Landing the 701 Reply with quote

You are right in holding power to keep the nose off. Without power you just sort of land and park it at the same time. Makes for a short landing though.
I fly my approach at 55 MPH with 3,000 RPM to touchdown. It help makes the squeaky landings. If I am flying at gross wt. my RPM will be as high as 3,200. This makes for a more "conventional" landing.
It doesn't sound like you have anything wrong with your rigging.
I had a jet jockey who had a 701 tell me this was the hardest plane to land he had ever flown. I haven't had that experience. Maybe it is because I don't have that much experience to compare it to. I'm having a blast with mine.
Paul Tipton
321PT
180 hours
[quote][b]


- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
n85ae



Joined: 14 Mar 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2008 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Landing the 701 Reply with quote

My tailwheel instructor claimed the absolute hardest pilots he ever taught
to fly light planes were Jet Jockeys .... Smile

I've mostly flown tailwheel for the last eight years, seems like some tail
wheel instruction my help. I realize before anybody jumps on me, that
tri-gear 701's are totally different. However I became a much better
tri-gear pilot after I got my tailwheel endorsement.

I think a lot has to do with learning to land the airplane 3-pt, and also
how to do wheel landings helps put you much more in tune with landing
speed and aircraft attitude.

One thing that I have noticed flying with a some tri-gear drivers is
that some are not very adept at carrying the nose during landing and
tend to land flat. Which if you do in a taildragger will lead to an enormous bounce.

Not saying it's a cure, but it's good instruction that might help.

Ok, flame away Smile

regards,
Jeff


- The Matronics Zenith701801-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Zenith701801-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Zenith701801-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group