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Pictures of bulkhead cracks

 
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indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:22 pm    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

Thanks all for the insight. The bottom line is that I am a little pissed
off that the guy with the English accent was so quick to determine a fix
without knowing the extent of the cracks or how I felt about it. With
something like this, its about the customer's piece of mind, and this is one
case where the clients feelings are right.

Brand new plane, hours and hours of work, my family's safety, the longevity
of the aircraft, possibly someone else's safety, the effort to pull it apart
to remove the part....EEEEEEE! sounds like Charlie Brown.

I think John's, .02 cents is right. I guess I will have to send the parts
back with the form saying "defective". I'll pay the freight back, which I
shouldn't have to. If they charge me for freight to send the new parts,
then it is letter time. It should be letter time anyway and perhaps it will
be since this will delay my building for a week and a half or more. What
else will I do. This is bad customer relation from a very innocent thing
with potentially huge implications.
John G


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bob.kaufmann(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:49 pm    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts, and have
them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something else
until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about replacing
parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good product
out the door.

Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part arrives. Or deburr
something.

Bob K
40125 Top forward fuselage skin

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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 4:24 am    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

Many people will know, if anyone is/was whiny about anything that
slows down their building, it's me. But, after making it through
99.9% of all the rivets I have to agree with Bob for the most part.
In my experience, they'll replace parts that are bad, and the ones
you mess up you can buy fairly cheap. Don't get too bent out of
shape about shipping, although for things like this they should
pay it. I spent literally hundreds of extra dollars on fittings,
and hardware to cover some of the shortages and ensure I wouldn't
get slowed down, and I spent a few hundred on extra shipping by
not knowing what I was short on as I built and having many small
hardware orders. Trust me, if you can build the whole RV-10
without $500-1,000 in incidental shipping and misc. hardware,
you're doing pretty good. I'm sure I'm on the high end of that,
but now I have a small pile of hardware I need to get rid of. Wink

As for what to do, I was stuck like you at a couple times. My advice
is like Bob's, to deburr stuff. When I got totally stuck, I grabbed
a pile of aluminum, cut out all sorts of pieces and deburred them.
It was actually nice at times, as it made future parts of the build
more bearable.

I don't think that your claims and worries don't have merit, because
generally I agree. I just want to reassure you that you'll make
it though. When you're building the tail, you have *no idea* how
many huge incidentals that aren't included in the kit that you'll
face. That's my biggest reason for my common advice for builders
to truly evaluate their decision to build before they start. If you're
the kind of person who winces when the kit is going to cost $1,000
more than you thought, it's going to be hard to bear. I've had
a string of constant $100 and $1000 things that came along, but
to get the result you want, sometimes that's what it takes. Most
of this stuff starts after the fuselage kit is completed.

So bear with the build and have as much fun as possible. When you
think something isn't right, just push them for a fix. Once, when
I had a part (throttle cable) that I knew wasn't appropriately
right, I just shipped it back with a note and ordered a new one.
Eventually the credit appeared. So, they will probably do good for
their builders in most cases. I do agree though that cracked
parts should be addressed when they're found.

Good luck and keep building.

Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
bob.kaufmann wrote:
[quote]

My .02, call them and tell Van's that you are returning the parts, and have
them send a new one. They will send it to you, and work on something else
until it arrives. I have learned that Van's is very good about replacing
parts, and they are just as interested as you are in getting a good product
out the door.

Jump ahead in the plans until the replacement part arrives. Or deburr
something.

Bob K
40125 Top forward fuselage skin

--


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dlm46007(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 5:05 am    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance
always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may build
again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and decided I needed
a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.

You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due to
fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the first
purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra starter
relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc
---


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Tim(at)MyRV10.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 6:45 am    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

I've got extra wire, a couple various aux. battery relays that I tried,
a pretty good pile of blue AN hardware that I bought while trying to
cover for shortages and trying to figure out a better fuel valve
install, pounds and pounds of extra bolts and screws, dozens of extra
nutplates bought because of shortages, hundreds of pop-style rivets
bought because of shortages, a few pounds of AN426/AN470 rivets bought
so I'd never run short again, A good sized roll of E-Glass used for
the windshield fairing, extra firewall material, a brand new pair of
NACA vents that I thought I'd use to try to come up with something
better for the front seat air, the old original fuel valve, and a
bunch more that I can't even remember right now. Some of it I'll
get rid of over time, and I'll probably list on my site what I'd
like to sell off. Some of it as you mention will be kept for
future maintenance. Not much of it would I regret, because I was
saved numerous times from stopping work due to shortages. In fact,
I didn't go far enough. I found last week that I was shorted
on 2 AN310-3 castle nuts for the rudder cables...so today I have
*gasp* temporary nuts in place to hold the cables tightly. I now
have a HUGE order of 12 nuts coming from Aircraft Spruce. In the
final 2 months of building, I probably had 10-15 small parts orders
from Wicks and ACS. At least from ACS you pay shipping only, and
no handling charge...but it makes those 12 nuts nearly double in
price. Buying a minimum of 2 spares of every nut/bolt/washer/screw/
electrical terminal/nutplate/AN Fitting ... will probably save
you many times over, but, you'll still maybe never have everything
you need on hand. Note that in many cases above, it's not practical
to buy only a couple. In the case of screws, your best bet is
often to buy 100 quantities of common screws from Aircraft Spruce.
Then you get a 20% discount on them, and have a good pile on hand.
Just this week I was short on AN509-8R10's and almost panicked that
I was out of them. But, much to my surprise, I had ordered 100
of them from Aircraft Spruce that had just showed up 2 days earlier
and I hadn't put in their trays yet. That's a pretty good save when
you're only <10 days from flying.

Tim
Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170
DO NOT ARCHIVE
David McNeill wrote:
[quote]

Could not agree more. Just don't discard the pile; ongoing maintenance
always requires occasional replacement of hardware. Besides you may
build again. After finishing the Glastar, I saw the 10 at OSH and
decided I needed a four place aircraft to replace the TC177RG.

You did not mention the list of things purchased but not used either due
to fit, style or function. I still have a power diode left from the
first purchase of three when building the Glastar. Still have an extra
starter relay,extra voltage regulator, extra circuit breakers. etc
---


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Jerry Grimmonpre'



Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 144
Location: Huntley, Illinois 60142

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:11 am    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

Hi All ...
I'm not in the fray of building the 10, I'm an 8A builder but I can see the
same shortages you all report. When everything is weighed out do you think
it would be better for Van's to draw-up a list of all the fasteners needed
to build their airplanes, publish it and make the paper list a part of the
build shipment. This way you could shop your list at AS or Wicks and never
have another worry about ... inventory shortages. Van's could wash their
hands of counting rivets, sending them out in tiny envelopes and generally
wasting their employees time on stuff there is probably little return on
investment. There are probably other spin-off benefits collective minds can
"see" such as the short length rivet problem being resolved by the merchant
in a more proactive manner. Maybe the competition would foster better
service. Now, it becomes a question of ... could Van's create an accurate
initial list of fasteners?
Food for thought ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A
DO NOT ARCHIVE

---


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n8vim(at)arrl.net
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:16 am    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

>there is probably little return on investment.

That's what the handling charge is for. I'm sure they at least break
even. Customer relations is a hard thing to get right and by providing a
"one-stop shop" for common hardware items the customer is that much happier.

It does help that being a new builder that at least *most* of the
hardware is included, at least enough to build to the plans; After that,
it is up to you to decide what extras you want Smile

-Jim 40384

Jerry Grimmonpre wrote:

[quote]

Hi All ...
I'm not in the fray of building the 10, I'm an 8A builder but I can
see the same shortages you all report. When everything is weighed out
do you think it would be better for Van's to draw-up a list of all the
fasteners needed to build their airplanes, publish it and make the
paper list a part of the build shipment. This way you could shop your
list at AS or Wicks and never have another worry about ... inventory
shortages. Van's could wash their hands of counting rivets, sending
them out in tiny envelopes and generally wasting their employees time
on stuff there is probably little return on investment. There are
probably other spin-off benefits collective minds can "see" such as
the short length rivet problem being resolved by the merchant in a
more proactive manner. Maybe the competition would foster better
service. Now, it becomes a question of ... could Van's create an
accurate initial list of fasteners?
Food for thought ...
Jerry Grimmonpre'
RV8A
DO NOT ARCHIVE

---


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VHMUM(at)bigpond.com
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 11:49 am    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

Vans just sent me a new gear leg as the R one was faulty.....Cost them $300 for part and $200 for freight downunder........I cant complain.
 
Chris
 
 
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acs(at)acspropeller.com.a
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 1:56 pm    Post subject: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

Chris,
What was wrong with the leg?
 
John 40315
 
 
From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris , Susie Darcy
Sent: Wednesday, 8 February 2006 5:47 AM
To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks

 
Vans just sent me a new gear leg as the R one was faulty.....Cost[b] them[/b] $300 for part and $200 for freight downunder........I cant complain.

 

Chris

 

 


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zackrv8



Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Pictures of bulkhead cracks Reply with quote

After reading about John G's bulkhead cracks, I checked mine over. I guess I got some of the parts that had stress cracks from hydro-forming the bulkhead and you can clearly see where Vans' filed them out.

I'm not too worried about it because I have plenty of flange leftover. It seems that Vans fix to this problem will be to shorten the flange on subsequent bulkheads.

Zack


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