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Costly mistake
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rfg842(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:14 am Post subject: Costly mistake

Bought an aircraft, sight unseen, from Arizona  with a Lyc   0 290 D2 with some 200 hours on a chrome major.  After flying it for two years, could never get the oil consumption down so decided to give it a top.  When the IA opened it up, found a bad cam, lots of internal rust and a $15,000 major.  

  

 Don't know if Lyc is prone to these problems but will never trust another purchase without a good internal inspection.  Would have saved me thousands.

  

 Bob, Wichita

           [quote][b]

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Costly mistake

In a message dated 2/15/2007 10:15:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, rfg842(at)cox.net writes:

  	  Quote: 	
		   Bought an aircraft, sight unseen, from Arizona  with a Lyc   0 290 D2 with some 200 hours on a chrome major.  After flying it for two years, could never get the oil consumption down so decided to give it a top.  When the IA opened it up, found a bad cam, lots of internal rust and a $15,000 major.  

  

 Don't know if Lyc is prone to these problems but will never trust another purchase without a good internal inspection.  Would have saved me thousands.

  

 Bob, Wichita

	


 Bob,

  

 How bad was the oil consumption?  I had a Grumman with chrome cylinders (O-235) that would use a quart in 4 to 6 hours.  I took the cylinders off and had them honed.  The engine had zero rust inside, it looked like new in fact.  After putting new rings in it and breaking it in using the best information I could get from many web searches -- kept temps down, power up, etc. -- it was exactly the same!  Chrome doesn't rust, but it may take 300 hours for the rings to seat.  Maybe the rough pattern of the chrome surface holds the oil and the engine consumes oil even after the rings seat.  My RV has Cerminil (c) cylinders and seems to be much better.

  

 Dan Hopper

 RV-7A

  [quote][b]

kmodairy(at)centurytel.ne
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:40 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

You guys are not makeing me feel very good. I have a Colt sitting in a  hanger for a little over a year now, was a great running 235 may not be  now.

    Anybody had one that has sat for a while and was not  damaged ? (I hope) 

 [quote]   ---

Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:09 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

In a message dated 2/15/2007 3:43:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, 

kmodairy(at)centurytel.net writes:

You guys are not makeing me feel very good. I have a Colt sitting in a hanger 

for a little over a year now, was a great running 235 may not be now.

   Anybody had one that has sat for a while and was not damaged ? (I hope) 

What you need to do is turn the airplane upside down every week or two to 

keep oil on the cam and lifters.



do not archive

wbecker(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:19 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

I bought a project airplane a few years ago. The engine  was in a hanger about 1 1/2 years with no special care, didn't even have the  plugs in it. When I got it home I put Aeoshell fluid 2F in it and rotated the  whole engine around a couple times, put in dehydrator plugs, then it sat  for 2 years while I rebuilt the airplane. It has been a great engine, now has  over 300 hrs since I bought the project.

     I would never suggest treating an engine that way. I  would always use Aeroshell fluid2F if an engine was to be stored for over 2  month or so. If you can run the engine, I would run it, drain the oil and put in  the Aeroshell fluid2F then run it again and put it away.

     The big worry as far as I am concerned is the cam and  lifters, they will not tolerate rust. You can remove a cylinder and look inside  to verify that no rust is present, no need for a tear down.

     My 2  pennies.            Bill  Becker

 [quote]   ---

wbecker(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:20 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

Exactly!!  well said!! Bill Becker

---

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:04 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

From: 

Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:48  PM

To: 'engines-list(at)matronics.com'

Subject: RE:  Costly mistake

 

 You know one of the best  preserving ideas I ever heard was to buy some cheap oil for your car and  completly fill the crankcase...I.e drive out all the oil.

  

 When you get it half full  turn it over slowly a couple of times, then finish filling it up.

  

 The fill up the cylinders  as well if you have some scrap plugs , of  course you will need to remove the rocker arms to keep the valves closed but  that can't be too difficult. .

  

 No way it can rust  now and you can use the oil in your car  afterwards...

  

  

 Frank



   From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William  Becker

Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:20 PM

To:  engines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Costly  mistake

 

     I bought a project airplane a few years ago. The engine  was in a hanger about 1 1/2 years with no special care, didn't even have the  plugs in it. When I got it home I put Aeoshell fluid 2F in it and rotated the  whole engine around a couple times, put in dehydrator plugs, then it sat  for 2 years while I rebuilt the airplane. It has been a great engine, now has  over 300 hrs since I bought the project.

     I would never suggest treating an engine that way. I  would always use Aeroshell fluid2F if an engine was to be stored for over 2  month or so. If you can run the engine, I would run it, drain the oil and put in  the Aeroshell fluid2F then run it again and put it away.

     The big worry as far as I am concerned is the cam and  lifters, they will not tolerate rust. You can remove a cylinder and look inside  to verify that no rust is present, no need for a tear down.

     My 2  pennies.            Bill  Becker

 [quote] [b]

archie97(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

Do not feel too badly, Bob

 Some have been there, and others will be.

 Tough lesson learned.

 Archie

 [quote]   ---

tstaley(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:40 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

Any Soob drivers out there? What kind of oil  consumption are you experiencing? Mine is about one quart for 3 hours. Also know  of anyone in Missouri that can tune it up or rebuild one?

 LeRoy

   [quote][b]

w_sweet(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

I thought since oil floats on water, the condensation will get "under" the  oil and bingo, rust.

 Wayne

 [quote]   ---

wbecker(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:44 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

Well then the water would be at the bottom of the sump, so no harm to the  engine parts. Right?          Bill  B

 [quote]   ---

wingsdown(at)verizon.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

Say  Leroy a quart in 3 hours is a sure sign that either it is blowing it out he  breather or rings.  Does it slow down after the first quart?  

  

 Rick

 [quote]   

   --

tstaley(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:13 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

No Rick it doesnt slow down on the consumption  after the first quart. Doesnt seem to be blowing it out, bottom of the plane  stays pretty clean. Guess it is the rings but the compresion isnt too low,  around 160-170.

   [quote][b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:54 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

Tell us more about the motor,,, Turbo, non turbo, rpms you turn it? Water and oil temps? How your crankcase breather system is set up? 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "Dacha" <tstaley(at)centurytel.net> wrote:

 No Rick it doesnt slow down on the consumption after the first quart. Doesnt seem to be blowing it out, bottom of the plane stays pretty clean. Guess it is the rings but the compresion isnt too low, around 160-170.

[quote]



====================================

t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List

====================================

tronics.com

====================================



[b]

fltrbg(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:24 pm Post subject: Costly mistake

Taken one step further,I bought my A-75 flipped upside down, the crankcase filled through the drain plug, the cylinders filled through the bottom plugs,the exhaust ports filled,removed the carb and filled the intake spider.The rockers can then stay on,rocker boxes also fill up with oil,guides and all are submurged.Just remember to plug the crancase vent.

   John.



"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> wrote:

  [quote]         



      From: 

Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:48 PM

To: 'engines-list(at)matronics.com'

Subject: RE: Costly mistake

   

  You know one of the best preserving ideas I ever heard was to buy some cheap oil for your car and completly fill the crankcase...I.e drive out all the oil.

   

  When you get it half full turn it over slowly a couple of times, then finish filling it up.

   

  The fill up the cylinders as well if you have some scrap plugs , of course you will need to remove the rocker arms to keep the valves closed but that can't be too difficult. .

   

  No way it  can rust  now and you can use the oil in your car afterwards...

   

   

  Frank



      From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Becker

Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:20 PM

To: engines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Costly mistake

  

      I bought a project airplane a few years ago. The engine was in a hanger about 1 1/2 years with no special care, didn't even have the plugs in it. When I got it home I put Aeoshell fluid 2F in it  and rotated the whole engine around a couple times, put in dehydrator plugs, then it sat for 2 years while I rebuilt the airplane. It has been a great engine, now has over 300 hrs since I bought the project.

      I would never suggest treating an engine that way. I would always use Aeroshell fluid2F if an engine was to be stored for over 2 month or so. If you can run the engine, I would run it, drain the oil and put in the Aeroshell fluid2F then run it again and put it away.

      The big worry as far as I am concerned is the cam and lifters, they will not tolerate rust. You can remove a cylinder and look inside to verify that no rust is present, no need for a tear down.

      My 2 pennies.            Bill Becker

  [quote] [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca]All new Yahoo! Mail - [/url] Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. [quote][b]

tstaley(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:15 am Post subject: Costly mistake

Ben,

 The engine is non turbo. Cruise between 4000-4200  rpm. All instruments are in the green, the only time it registers any excessive  heat is full throttle and climbing. Not sure how the crankcase breather set up  is but the belly isnt excessively dirty. Bought the plane from the  builder.

 LeRoy

   [quote][b]

n801bh(at)netzero.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:20 am Post subject: Costly mistake

Hi LeRoy, If the rings were not seating properly you would have alot of blow by and your belly would be real dirty, if that is where the crankcase breather dumps. My guess it might be in the  intake valve guide/seal area. That would actually draw oil through the guide, burn the oil and then out the tailpipe. You would not see any trace of oil that way. One quart of oil in three hours is excessive and you need to explore this issue further. can you send me a pic of the engine install ??   Send it to my Haaspowerair.com website. I can open pics better there.. 

do not archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "Dacha" <tstaley(at)centurytel.net> wrote:

 Ben,

 The engine is non turbo. Cruise between 4000-4200 rpm. All instruments are in the green, the only time it registers any excessive heat is full throttle and climbing. Not sure how the crankcase breather set up is but the belly isnt excessively dirty. Bought the plane from the builder.

 LeRoy

[quote]



====================================

t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List

====================================

tronics.com

====================================



[b]

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: Costly mistake

Yes but the air (carrying  the water) can't get into the case in the first place. Typically the rust  appears on the cam i.e at the top of the case. The air inside the case is hot  and moist when shutdown, then cools below its dewpoint and then the water  condenses on the cam etc.

  

 Thus if it is full of oil  there can be no air, therefore no moisture.

  

 Thats the theory at  least.

 Frank



   From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne  Sweet

Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:20 PM

To:  engines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Costly  mistake

 

 I thought since oil floats on water, the condensation will get "under" the  oil and bingo, rust.

 Wayne

 [quote]   ---

frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:02 am Post subject: Costly mistake

What engine is this?

  

 On the Soob EA81 motor at least there is significant  distortion of the bores when the head is torqued down. This led to a lot of  blowby on my ea81 install..There is a fix hpwever if it is an  ea81.

  

 Frank



   From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of  n801bh(at)netzero.com

Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:19  AM

To: engines-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Engines-List:  Costly mistake

 

 

Hi LeRoy, If the rings were not seating properly you would have alot of blow  by and your belly would be real dirty, if that is where the crankcase breather  dumps. My guess it might be in the  intake valve guide/seal area. That  would actually draw oil through the guide, burn the oil and then out the  tailpipe. You would not see any trace of oil that way. One quart of oil in three  hours is excessive and you need to explore this issue further. can you send me a  pic of the engine install ??   Send it to my Haaspowerair.com website.  I can open pics better there.. 

do not  archive

Ben Haas

N801BH

www.haaspowerair.com



-- "Dacha" <tstaley(at)centurytel.net> wrote:

 Ben,

 The engine is non turbo. Cruise between 4000-4200  rpm. All instruments are in the green, the only time it registers any excessive  heat is full throttle and climbing. Not sure how the crankcase breather set up  is but the belly isnt excessively dirty. Bought the plane from the  builder.

 LeRoy

[quote]



t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List

tronics.com







href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

tstaley(at)centurytel.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: Costly mistake

It is an EA81. What is the fix?

 LeRoy

   [quote][b]

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