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Costly mistake
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rfg842(at)cox.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:14 am    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Bought an aircraft, sight unseen, from Arizona with a Lyc 0 290 D2 with some 200 hours on a chrome major. After flying it for two years, could never get the oil consumption down so decided to give it a top. When the IA opened it up, found a bad cam, lots of internal rust and a $15,000 major.

Don't know if Lyc is prone to these problems but will never trust another purchase without a good internal inspection. Would have saved me thousands.

Bob, Wichita
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Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:48 am    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

In a message dated 2/15/2007 10:15:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, rfg842(at)cox.net writes:
Quote:
Bought an aircraft, sight unseen, from Arizona with a Lyc 0 290 D2 with some 200 hours on a chrome major. After flying it for two years, could never get the oil consumption down so decided to give it a top. When the IA opened it up, found a bad cam, lots of internal rust and a $15,000 major.

Don't know if Lyc is prone to these problems but will never trust another purchase without a good internal inspection. Would have saved me thousands.

Bob, Wichita

Bob,

How bad was the oil consumption? I had a Grumman with chrome cylinders (O-235) that would use a quart in 4 to 6 hours. I took the cylinders off and had them honed. The engine had zero rust inside, it looked like new in fact. After putting new rings in it and breaking it in using the best information I could get from many web searches -- kept temps down, power up, etc. -- it was exactly the same! Chrome doesn't rust, but it may take 300 hours for the rings to seat. Maybe the rough pattern of the chrome surface holds the oil and the engine consumes oil even after the rings seat. My RV has Cerminil (c) cylinders and seems to be much better.

Dan Hopper
RV-7A
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kmodairy(at)centurytel.ne
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:40 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

You guys are not makeing me feel very good. I have a Colt sitting in a hanger for a little over a year now, was a great running 235 may not be now.
Anybody had one that has sat for a while and was not damaged ? (I hope)
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Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:09 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

In a message dated 2/15/2007 3:43:02 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kmodairy(at)centurytel.net writes:
You guys are not makeing me feel very good. I have a Colt sitting in a hanger
for a little over a year now, was a great running 235 may not be now.
Anybody had one that has sat for a while and was not damaged ? (I hope)
What you need to do is turn the airplane upside down every week or two to
keep oil on the cam and lifters.

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wbecker(at)centurytel.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:19 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

I bought a project airplane a few years ago. The engine was in a hanger about 1 1/2 years with no special care, didn't even have the plugs in it. When I got it home I put Aeoshell fluid 2F in it and rotated the whole engine around a couple times, put in dehydrator plugs, then it sat for 2 years while I rebuilt the airplane. It has been a great engine, now has over 300 hrs since I bought the project.
I would never suggest treating an engine that way. I would always use Aeroshell fluid2F if an engine was to be stored for over 2 month or so. If you can run the engine, I would run it, drain the oil and put in the Aeroshell fluid2F then run it again and put it away.
The big worry as far as I am concerned is the cam and lifters, they will not tolerate rust. You can remove a cylinder and look inside to verify that no rust is present, no need for a tear down.
My 2 pennies.   Bill Becker
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wbecker(at)centurytel.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:20 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Exactly!! well said!! Bill Becker
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:04 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

From:
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:48 PM
To: 'engines-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Costly mistake

You know one of the best preserving ideas I ever heard was to buy some cheap oil for your car and completly fill the crankcase...I.e drive out all the oil.

When you get it half full turn it over slowly a couple of times, then finish filling it up.

The fill up the cylinders as well if you have some scrap plugs , of course you will need to remove the rocker arms to keep the valves closed but that can't be too difficult. .

No way it can rust now and you can use the oil in your car afterwards...


Frank

From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Becker
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:20 PM
To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Costly mistake

I bought a project airplane a few years ago. The engine was in a hanger about 1 1/2 years with no special care, didn't even have the plugs in it. When I got it home I put Aeoshell fluid 2F in it and rotated the whole engine around a couple times, put in dehydrator plugs, then it sat for 2 years while I rebuilt the airplane. It has been a great engine, now has over 300 hrs since I bought the project.
I would never suggest treating an engine that way. I would always use Aeroshell fluid2F if an engine was to be stored for over 2 month or so. If you can run the engine, I would run it, drain the oil and put in the Aeroshell fluid2F then run it again and put it away.
The big worry as far as I am concerned is the cam and lifters, they will not tolerate rust. You can remove a cylinder and look inside to verify that no rust is present, no need for a tear down.
My 2 pennies.   Bill Becker
[quote] [b]


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archie97(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:10 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Do not feel too badly, Bob
Some have been there, and others will be.
Tough lesson learned.
Archie
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tstaley(at)centurytel.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:40 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Any Soob drivers out there? What kind of oil consumption are you experiencing? Mine is about one quart for 3 hours. Also know of anyone in Missouri that can tune it up or rebuild one?
LeRoy
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w_sweet(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:20 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

I thought since oil floats on water, the condensation will get "under" the oil and bingo, rust.
Wayne
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wbecker(at)centurytel.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:44 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Well then the water would be at the bottom of the sump, so no harm to the engine parts. Right? Bill B
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wingsdown(at)verizon.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:13 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Say Leroy a quart in 3 hours is a sure sign that either it is blowing it out he breather or rings. Does it slow down after the first quart?

Rick
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tstaley(at)centurytel.net
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

No Rick it doesnt slow down on the consumption after the first quart. Doesnt seem to be blowing it out, bottom of the plane stays pretty clean. Guess it is the rings but the compresion isnt too low, around 160-170.
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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:54 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Tell us more about the motor,,, Turbo, non turbo, rpms you turn it? Water and oil temps? How your crankcase breather system is set up?
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "Dacha" <tstaley(at)centurytel.net> wrote:
No Rick it doesnt slow down on the consumption after the first quart. Doesnt seem to be blowing it out, bottom of the plane stays pretty clean. Guess it is the rings but the compresion isnt too low, around 160-170.
[quote]

====================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
====================================
tronics.com
====================================

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fltrbg(at)yahoo.com
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Taken one step further,I bought my A-75 flipped upside down, the crankcase filled through the drain plug, the cylinders filled through the bottom plugs,the exhaust ports filled,removed the carb and filled the intake spider.The rockers can then stay on,rocker boxes also fill up with oil,guides and all are submurged.Just remember to plug the crancase vent.
John.

"Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com> wrote:
[quote]

From:
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:48 PM
To: 'engines-list(at)matronics.com'
Subject: RE: Costly mistake

You know one of the best preserving ideas I ever heard was to buy some cheap oil for your car and completly fill the crankcase...I.e drive out all the oil.

When you get it half full turn it over slowly a couple of times, then finish filling it up.

The fill up the cylinders as well if you have some scrap plugs , of course you will need to remove the rocker arms to keep the valves closed but that can't be too difficult. .

No way it can rust now and you can use the oil in your car afterwards...


Frank

From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Becker
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:20 PM
To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Costly mistake

I bought a project airplane a few years ago. The engine was in a hanger about 1 1/2 years with no special care, didn't even have the plugs in it. When I got it home I put Aeoshell fluid 2F in it and rotated the whole engine around a couple times, put in dehydrator plugs, then it sat for 2 years while I rebuilt the airplane. It has been a great engine, now has over 300 hrs since I bought the project.
I would never suggest treating an engine that way. I would always use Aeroshell fluid2F if an engine was to be stored for over 2 month or so. If you can run the engine, I would run it, drain the oil and put in the Aeroshell fluid2F then run it again and put it away.
The big worry as far as I am concerned is the cam and lifters, they will not tolerate rust. You can remove a cylinder and look inside to verify that no rust is present, no need for a tear down.
My 2 pennies. Bill Becker
[quote] [url=http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=40705/*http://mrd.mail.yahoo.com/try_beta?.intl=ca]All new Yahoo! Mail - [/url] Get a sneak peak at messages with a handy reading pane. [quote][b]


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tstaley(at)centurytel.net
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:15 am    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Ben,
The engine is non turbo. Cruise between 4000-4200 rpm. All instruments are in the green, the only time it registers any excessive heat is full throttle and climbing. Not sure how the crankcase breather set up is but the belly isnt excessively dirty. Bought the plane from the builder.
LeRoy
[quote][b]


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n801bh(at)netzero.com
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:20 am    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Hi LeRoy, If the rings were not seating properly you would have alot of blow by and your belly would be real dirty, if that is where the crankcase breather dumps. My guess it might be in the intake valve guide/seal area. That would actually draw oil through the guide, burn the oil and then out the tailpipe. You would not see any trace of oil that way. One quart of oil in three hours is excessive and you need to explore this issue further. can you send me a pic of the engine install ?? Send it to my Haaspowerair.com website. I can open pics better there..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "Dacha" <tstaley(at)centurytel.net> wrote:
Ben,
The engine is non turbo. Cruise between 4000-4200 rpm. All instruments are in the green, the only time it registers any excessive heat is full throttle and climbing. Not sure how the crankcase breather set up is but the belly isnt excessively dirty. Bought the plane from the builder.
LeRoy
[quote]

====================================
t">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
====================================
tronics.com
====================================

[b]


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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:57 am    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

Yes but the air (carrying the water) can't get into the case in the first place. Typically the rust appears on the cam i.e at the top of the case. The air inside the case is hot and moist when shutdown, then cools below its dewpoint and then the water condenses on the cam etc.

Thus if it is full of oil there can be no air, therefore no moisture.

Thats the theory at least.
Frank

From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Wayne Sweet
Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 4:20 PM
To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Costly mistake

I thought since oil floats on water, the condensation will get "under" the oil and bingo, rust.
Wayne
[quote] ---


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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:02 am    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

What engine is this?

On the Soob EA81 motor at least there is significant distortion of the bores when the head is torqued down. This led to a lot of blowby on my ea81 install..There is a fix hpwever if it is an ea81.

Frank

From: owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-engines-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n801bh(at)netzero.com
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:19 AM
To: engines-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Costly mistake


Hi LeRoy, If the rings were not seating properly you would have alot of blow by and your belly would be real dirty, if that is where the crankcase breather dumps. My guess it might be in the intake valve guide/seal area. That would actually draw oil through the guide, burn the oil and then out the tailpipe. You would not see any trace of oil that way. One quart of oil in three hours is excessive and you need to explore this issue further. can you send me a pic of the engine install ?? Send it to my Haaspowerair.com website. I can open pics better there..
do not archive
Ben Haas
N801BH
www.haaspowerair.com

-- "Dacha" <tstaley(at)centurytel.net> wrote:
Ben,
The engine is non turbo. Cruise between 4000-4200 rpm. All instruments are in the green, the only time it registers any excessive heat is full throttle and climbing. Not sure how the crankcase breather set up is but the belly isnt excessively dirty. Bought the plane from the builder.
LeRoy
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href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Engines-List
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tstaley(at)centurytel.net
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:29 am    Post subject: Costly mistake Reply with quote

It is an EA81. What is the fix?
LeRoy
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