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orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

In the past there have been many topics discussing the minimum size to build a 10 but I have not seen any discussion as to work tables.  Timâ€™s site talks about using an 8 foot and a 4 foot table but no reference to depth.  The pictures look like his were not 48â€.  I suspect 24â€ or 32â€.

I hope to be doing my inventory on the Emp kit next weekend and I am trying to get the work area ready.  I already have a 4 x 8 table for general work but for the construction, it looks like most people are using much less then 48â€ of depth.  A shallower table allows easier working from both sides.

If I go with a 4 ft and 8 ft table, can I get by with a 24â€ depth or do I need 32â€ or even wider?

I am also considering adding a cutout in the 4 foot table for a 'Hand Riveting and Dimpling Tool' that I can drop in when needed that will allow the aluminum being worked on to rest on the table at the tools work height.  Are others finding this arangement useful?

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:50 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

Gary,



I built two of these and they have been perfect. Add wheels to the bottom with at least two lockable wheels. It can be one long table like for wings or and "L" or square shape. They are super strudy and easy to build. 



Heres the link to EAA chapter 1000 workbenches:



http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm



Rick S.

40185

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

kearney(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

Gary



I built 2 EAA regulation tables per the plans located at : http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/tablefig.htm



FWIW, I very much like these tables. They are easy to build and very nice to work on. When I need to, I can put them back to back or end to end. The depth is perfect for the tail kit. As you mentioned, access to either side without reaching is a big plus.



I did deviate from tbe EAA plans in two respects. First, I cut the legs down so I could put on fully castoring wheels (two of them with locks). As I am in a fairly small space, this is a big plus. I also used MDF for the table top and shelf. It is soft, forgiving and smooth. It doesn't trap burrs etc to scratch skins. 



Another trick was to put a soft foam mesh mat (used to line drawers etc) on the table tops. The mesh holds work in place and also helps prevent dents from moving pieces around on the table. The mesh also allows burrs etc to fall into the mesh and away from the skins. Periodically I just shake the mesh out on the floor. 



A couple of days ago I also built two 18" by 36" tables (also on wheels) upon which I mounted my power tools (bandsaw, vise and grinder on one and drill press and belt sander on another). As these are easily movable, they will likely be quite handy.



Anyway, based on my experience, you can't go wrong with the EAA tables.



Cheers



Les Kearney

RV10 - # 40643 Lost in the empennage



--

owl40188(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:12 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

Hi orchidman

  

 Welcome the the RV10 building world.

  

 I have used two  8ft by 2 ft tables.  Built similarly to those in the EAA site.  They worked great.  A 32 inch table should work great also but I wouldn't go any wider than that.  I used a 2ft depth because I slit a 4x8 plywood sheet in the middle for the two table tops.   A more important item might be table height.  You don't want to have to bend down for a long period of time while working on your kit.

  

 Happy building

  

 Niko

 40188

 ---

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Work Table Size

 	  Rick S. wrote: 	
		  Gary,



I built two of these and they have been perfect. Add wheels to the bottom with at least two lockable wheels. It can be one long table like for wings or and "L" or square shape. They are super strudy and easy to build. 



Heres the link to EAA chapter 1000 workbenches:



http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm



Rick S.

40185 	


Rick,

Your link followed to the plans only shows the 24" deep tables, while the link on Tim's page also shows 24 and 32" deep tables.  I can build either but 24" would work better for me if that is sufficient for building the Emp and most of the long work on the wings.



Were your tables 24" on the narrow side?  Lengths seem to be commonly mentioned but people forget to mention the narrow dimention.

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:32 pm Post subject: Re: Work Table Size

 	  owl40188(at)yahoo.com wrote: 	
		  

 I have used two  8ft by 2 ft tables.  Built similarly to those in the EAA site.  They worked great.  A 32 inch table should work great also but I wouldn't go any wider than that.  I used a 2ft depth because I slit a 4x8 plywood sheet in the middle for the two table tops.   A more important item might be table height.ï¿½ You don't want to have to bend down for a long period of time while working on your kit.



 Niko

 40188- 	


Thanks,  It looks like my problems are because of Tim!  Can I blame him   



The plans he has on his site show both 24" and 32" and this is what I was questioning.  Which is best for the 10.  

Eveyone that has replied so far has referenced the plans from what looks like the same group of people but only has the 24" size.  No reference to 32" wide.

It is looking like 24" is winning.  This is what I needed to know so I can build them this weekend.

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

sstella(at)incisaledge.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

Gary,



I just finished my workshop which is in a two car garage and I put two workbenches, one was 10x3x38" high(this is my main bench) and I also have a 8x3x38" high(I have a belt sander, vise and grinder on this). This seems to be sufficient. I didn't go with 4' wide because both benches are up against a wall and it seemed a stretch to reach across. If your bench will be in the middle of the floor and you have access to both sides then 4' wide should be good.



--

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

I used a solid core door for the top of my bench (I have 2) so it is 30" 

deep.  I modified the eaa plans to accommodate the door depth.  I did 

leave about 1/2" lip around the perimeter.  If I were to do it again I 

would leave at least 1".  It would make it easier to clamp to.  Since 

the door top is heavy I have yet to fasten it to the to the leg 

structure.  This allows me to slide the door around to make a larger 

lip.  It also gets slid to the side so my dimpler can sit on the support 

structure and the door top is about flat with the dimple.

photos are here 

<http://lrosen.nerv10.com/Construct/tools/Workshop/index.html>

Larry

#356

orchidman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Rick S. wrote:

> Gary,

>

> I built two of these and they have been perfect. Add wheels to the bottom with at least two lockable wheels. It can be one long table like for wings or and "L" or square shape. They are super strudy and easy to build. 

>

> Heres the link to EAA chapter 1000 workbenches:

>

> http://www.eaa1000.av.org/technicl/worktabl/worktabl.htm

>

> Rick S.

> 40185

>     

 Rick,

 Your link followed to the plans only shows the 24" deep tables, while the link on Tim's page also shows 24 and 32" deep tables.  I can build either but 24" would work better for me if that is sufficient for building the Emp and most of the long work on the wings.

 Were your tables 24" on the narrow side?  Lengths seem to be commonly mentioned but people forget to mention the narrow dimention.

 --------

 Gary Blankenbiller

 RV10 - # 40674

 (N410GB reserved)

 do not archive

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81587#81587

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

Jon Reining

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 37

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Work Table Size

I made my table out of all the materials that they used to crate the empennage kit, with the exception of the legs which I just pulled out some scrap 4x4.  I doubled up the plywood, ripped the 1x material into stiffeners, and added a shelf.  The best part for me is the the 1x4 stiffener that says "High Dollar Aircraft Parts - This Side Up" upside down.    Having a high table really helps.  Routering in a place for the steel plate for back riveting also works well for us.



What I'm envious of: a buddy who does custom steel and metal fabrication work (also a pilot) has a 4x4 steel table with a hydraulic lift to raise and lower his work to the most comfortable height.  I think something like that would really be the cat's meow.  



Jon Reining

41514 (with my dad Bill - and occasional emotional support from my wife Christy - who also reads the list emails)

Tailcone - interrupted - while house is being remodeled and parents are moving

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:43 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

Yes, you can blame me.   I took those plans and did some calculations to

efficiently allow them to be built either to 24" or 32".   In my case,

I'm glad I had 32", but it really is just a personal preference.  I had

no problem laying a wing on it, and since I didn't solid-mount my

C-Frame dimpler, I found the width to be a great help.  In addition, you

end up getting lots and lots of supplies on the table sometimes, and

having the extra width can be a good thing.  32" was not at all too

wide to work comfortably on both sides of RV-10 parts.

That said, if you're space limited, or prefer skinny tables, then 24"

might be just the ticket.  It's just personal preference.

Some people liked theirs moveable with rollers.  I preferred mine to

be super solid heavy and unyielding.  I really is no big deal either

way, and often could be dependent on the rest of your shop.  If I had

unlimited space, I'd have had a couple more of the ones Like I have,

and scattered them around a bit.  One thing for sure, when you get

yourself a good sturdy set of tables, you'll find building to go

smoother.  Also, it was handy having a top that you didn't mind drilling

into, or painting.

One other thing I found infinitely helpful was an overhead pipe system

with air outlets every few feet, and a few 5 to 10' air hoses.  It's

nice sometimes to just have a little piece of hose hanging down so

it isn't in the way while you drill, and really beats tripping over

a 25' hose on the ground.

So yep, I confused the issue by giving 2 options for the standard

EAA Plans.  Sucks to have options, doesn't it.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

orchidman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 owl40188(at)yahoo.com wrote:

> I have used two  8ft by 2 ft tables.  Built similarly to those in

> the EAA site.  They worked great.  A 32 inch table should work

> great also but I wouldn't go any wider than that.  I used a 2ft

> depth because I slit a 4x8 plywood sheet in the middle for the two

> table tops.   A more important item might be table height.ï¿½ You

> don't want to have to bend down for a long period of time while

> working on your kit.

> 

> Niko 40188-

 Thanks,  It looks like my problems are because of Tim!  Can I blame

 him  

 The plans he has on his site show both 24" and 32" and this is what I

 was questioning.  Which is best for the 10. Eveyone that has replied

 so far has referenced the plans from what looks like the same group

 of people but only has the 24" size.  No reference to 32" wide. It is

 looking like 24" is winning.  This is what I needed to know so I can

 build them this weekend.

 -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N410GB reserved) do not

 archive

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81590#81590

 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

EFDsteve(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:54 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

I built the 24 inch wide EAA tables, but for the top, I made it 2" wider  all around, and that has worked really well for clamping things to the  table.  Another consideration is that may have to move these through doors  at some point, like I did when I moved about a year and a half ago.  If my  table had been any wider than 28", I would have had a very hard time moving it  from one house to the other.

 Steve Weinstock

 40230

 --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson  <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

Yes, you can blame me.   I took those  plans and did some calculations to

efficiently allow them to be built either  to 24" or 32".   In my case,

I'm glad I had 32", but it really is  just a personal preference.  I had

no problem laying a wing on it, and  since I didn't solid-mount my

C-Frame dimpler, I found the width to be a  great help.  In addition, you

end up getting lots and lots of supplies  on the table sometimes, and

having the extra width can be a good thing.   32" was not at all too

wide to work comfortably on both sides of RV-10  parts.

That said, if you're space limited, or prefer skinny tables, then  24"

might be just the ticket.  It's just personal  preference.

Some people liked theirs moveable with rollers.  I  preferred mine to

be super solid heavy and unyielding.  I really is no  big deal either

way, and often could be dependent on the rest of your  shop.  If I had

unlimited space, I'd have had a couple more of the ones  Like I have,

and scattered them around a bit.  One thing for sure, when  you get

yourself a good sturdy set of tables, you'll find building to  go

smoother.  Also, it was handy having a top that you didn't mind  drilling

into, or painting.

One other thing I found infinitely helpful  was an overhead pipe system

with air outlets every few feet, and a few 5 to  10' air hoses.  It's

nice sometimes to just have a little piece of hose  hanging down so

it isn't in the way while you drill, and really beats  tripping over

a 25' hose on the ground.

So yep, I confused the issue  by giving 2 options for the standard

EAA Plans.  Sucks to have options,  doesn't it.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not  archive

orchidman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by:  "orchidman" <gary(at)wingscc.com>

  owl40188(at)yahoo.com wrote:

> I have used two  8ft by 2 ft  tables.  Built similarly to those in

> the EAA site.  They  worked great.  A 32 inch table should work

> great also but I  wouldn't go any wider than that.  I used a 2ft

> depth because I  slit a 4x8 plywood sheet in the middle for the two

> table  tops.   A more important item might be table height.ï¿½  You

> don't want to have to bend down for a long period of time  while

> working on your kit.

> 

> Niko  40188-

 Thanks,  It looks like my problems are because of  Tim!  Can I blame

 him  

 The plans he has on  his site show both 24" and 32" and this is what I

 was questioning.   Which is best for the 10. Eveyone that has replied

 so far has referenced  the plans from what looks like the same group

 of people but only has the  24" size.  No reference to 32" wide. It is

 looking like 24" is  winning.  This is what I needed to know so I can

 build them this  weekend.

 -------- Gary Blankenbiller RV10 - # 40674 (N410GB  reserved) do not

 archive

  Read this topic online here:

  http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=81590#81590

  http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 

  [quote][b]

orchidman

Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 277
Location: Oklahoma City - KRCE

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Work Table Size

 	  Tim(at)MyRV10.com wrote: 	
		  Yes, you can blame me.   I took those plans and did some calculations to

efficiently allow them to be built either to 24" or 32".   In my case,

I'm glad I had 32", but it really is just a personal preference. 



So yep, I confused the issue by giving 2 options for the standard

EAA Plans.  Sucks to have options, doesn't it.

	


It sure does   

Isn't life great!



So it sounds like 24" will work but if you can go 4" to 8" wider is even better.

_________________
Gary Blankenbiller
RV10 - # 40674
(N2GB Flying)

MauleDriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

The EAA tables are great - I did 3 of them. I thought hard about more 

than 24 inches but the 24 really is right. I second the MDF - makes a 

great surface. The only reason why you might want to go a few inches 

wider or longer is to get an edge you can clamp to. However, I find the 

bar clamps to be very effective in clamping to to the 2X4 that holds the 

top. Bigger seems better but not necessarily in this case. 2 is better 

than 1 and 3 better than 2.



The only variation on the tables I did was to leave off the doublers on 

the bottom of the legs. You certainly don't need it for strength and 

leaving it off makes it a little lighter and may make it a little easier 

to slide on the floor - if you don't use wheels.



Remember to use glue for a solid table.



orchidman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 In the past there have been many topics discussing the minimum size to build a 10 but I have not seen any discussion as to work tables.  Timâ€™s site talks about using an 8 foot and a 4 foot table but no reference to depth.  The pictures look like his were not 48â€.  I suspect 24â€ or 32â€.

 I hope to be doing my inventory on the Emp kit next weekend and I am trying to get the work area ready.  I already have a 4 x 8 table for general work but for the construction, it looks like most people are using much less then 48â€ of depth.  A shallower table allows easier working from both sides.

 If I go with a 4 ft and 8 ft table, can I get by with a 24â€ depth or do I need 32â€ or even wider?

 I am also considering adding a cutout in the 4 foot table for a 'Hand Riveting and Dimpling Tool' that I can drop in when needed that will allow the aluminum being worked on to rest on the table at the tools work height.  Are others finding this arangement useful?

k5wiv(at)amsat.org
Guest

Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

I haven't started building the airplane yet, but have built 2 of the EAA

tables per plans except that I added masonite over the top.  I'm finding

them very useful already and have 3' by 4' top and shelf pieces left over.

I'm going to get some more 2x4s for the framing and build 2 2' x 3' tool

stands.  I may shorten the legs enough to add casters and still have the

same height as the 5'x2's.  And when the airplane construction starts I may

build a couple more then by clamping tables together a great variety of

sizes and shapes can be accomplished.



Jack & Cecilia Sargeant

1127 Patricia St.

Wichita, KS 67208-2642

316/683-5268



  --

rv10builder(at)verizon.ne
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: Work Table Size

Hi Tim!

Little question to make my mind need to work less..

you wrote:

One other thing I found infinitely helpful was an overhead pipe system with 

air outlets every few feet, and a few 5 to 10' air hoses.  It's nice 

sometimes to just have a little piece of hose hanging down so it isn't in 

the way while you drill

--

Been thinking of doing this myself and wonder what size copper piping did 

you use?.. I gather it was 1/4 with 90degree elbows.. if you can fill give 

me,  I can continue that engineering piece for the start in 2007.

I am in the exact same situation you were in 2/3 years ago. 3 year old and 

building up funds to get started. Looking at mid year 2007 if all goes well 

between now and than at work, I'm anxious to start but in no rush.



Merry Christmas and wishes for a great 2007.



Pascal



PS: Disneyland offer for a place for your family to stay stands for 2007 

lest you forget the offer.



Pascal

---

LarryRosen

Joined: 16 Jan 2006
Posts: 415
Location: Medford, NJ

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:54 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

I used 1/2" copper pipe.  I plumbed 3 stations.  One near the compressor 

and the other two on the far side of the garage.



Larry

#356



Pascal wrote:

[quote] 



 Hi Tim!

 Little question to make my mind need to work less..

 you wrote:

 One other thing I found infinitely helpful was an overhead pipe system 

 with air outlets every few feet, and a few 5 to 10' air hoses.  It's 

 nice sometimes to just have a little piece of hose hanging down so it 

 isn't in the way while you drill

 -- 

 Been thinking of doing this myself and wonder what size copper piping 

 did you use?.. I gather it was 1/4 with 90degree elbows.. if you can 

 fill give me,  I can continue that engineering piece for the start in 

 2007.

 I am in the exact same situation you were in 2/3 years ago. 3 year old 

 and building up funds to get started. Looking at mid year 2007 if all 

 goes well between now and than at work, I'm anxious to start but in no 

 rush.



 Merry Christmas and wishes for a great 2007.



 Pascal



 PS: Disneyland offer for a place for your family to stay stands for 

 2007 lest you forget the offer.



 Pascal

 ---

_________________
Larry Rosen
#40356
N205EN (reserved)
<http>

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: Work Table Size

Hi Pascal,



I used 1/2" galvanized pipe, but I think 1/2" copper would be

better unless you can put lots of moisture separation in front

of it.  Just make sure the copper is good for about 150psi

and that would be great.   It really is nice having a couple

of runs down the ceiling so you can work on either side of the airplane.

I put one down each side of the workbench, but should have put one down

the other side of the garage too.  It's pretty cheap to do.  The pipe

isn't a big cost.  Just the coupler fittings.



It'll be great to hear how things go as you get started with it all.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

Pascal wrote:

[quote] 

 

 Hi Tim!

 Little question to make my mind need to work less..

 you wrote:

 One other thing I found infinitely helpful was an overhead pipe system 

 with air outlets every few feet, and a few 5 to 10' air hoses.  It's 

 nice sometimes to just have a little piece of hose hanging down so it 

 isn't in the way while you drill

 -- 

 Been thinking of doing this myself and wonder what size copper piping 

 did you use?.. I gather it was 1/4 with 90degree elbows.. if you can 

 fill give me,  I can continue that engineering piece for the start in 2007.

 I am in the exact same situation you were in 2/3 years ago. 3 year old 

 and building up funds to get started. Looking at mid year 2007 if all 

 goes well between now and than at work, I'm anxious to start but in no 

 rush.

 

 Merry Christmas and wishes for a great 2007.

 

 Pascal

 

 PS: Disneyland offer for a place for your family to stay stands for 2007 

 lest you forget the offer.

 

 Pascal

 ---

nick(at)nickomalley.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:06 am Post subject: Work Table Size

Hi Pascal,



For information,



A company in the UK called John Guest make PVC tubing and fittings for

compressed air systems.



http://johnguest.co.uk/range_spec.asp?a=ARFIT  link to the fittings



http://johnguest.co.uk/range_spec.asp?a=PATUB  link to the tube



It also looks like there is a link to a US distributor.



Best regards

Nick



--

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:20 am Post subject: Work Table Size

I'm curious.  Is there a reason that everyone is using copper and other metal pipe for their air runs?  Good ole SCH 40 PVC from just about any hardware store is rated for several times the PSI you will ever see from your compressor.  Use half inch PVC and you will be done in half the time at a fraction of the cost.



Michael



--

jesse(at)itecusa.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:58 am Post subject: Work Table Size

Amen!



Do not archive.



Jesse Saint

I-TEC, Inc.

jesse(at)itecusa.org

www.itecusa.org

Cell: 352-427-0285

Fax: 815-377-3694

--

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