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avionics cut outs

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danny shepherd

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 117
Location: north Wales, United Kingdom

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:45 am Post subject: avionics cut outs

Hi All,

          I'm just getting to the point of digging deep into the 

proverbial pocket and order the avionics. I was thinking of fitting the 

Becker 4201 and the Filser TRT 600. both these units require 2 1/4 in 

cut outs in the avionics panel. I have the aluminum removable panel from 

Europa. My question is, whats the best way of cutting the holes ? and 

whats your opinion of these two units ? I know we don't have to fit mode 

S yet, but I fear it's coming !!



Cheers  Danny  G-c.e.r.i

hagargs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: avionics cut outs

Find someone with a numerically controlled water jet machine.  I had both

my radio subpanel and instrument panel done for $70.  With a water jet

there is not tool changing and no need to do any deburring, all edges are

smooth.  The unlikely place I found a water jet was next to the  cemetary

at the place that sold tombstones.  The granite tombstones are engraved

with a waterjet.  I was fortunate that I use Auto CAD at work so that is 

where the majority of the  work comes from.  Once drawn up the  file is

downloaded to the jet. The machine is turned on and you watch it do its

job.  cutting all screw holes and shaping the panel.



Steve Hagar

A143

Mesa AZ



Steve Hagar

hagargs(at)earthlink.net

grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:29 am Post subject: avionics cut outs

Steve

Water jet is the best way to cut 4130 steel too. With laser cutting the 

edges come out glass hard and drilling a laser cut hole to size will 

ruin normal drills after about three holes. Another tee shirt I have 

worn out 

Graham



Steve Hagar wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Find someone with a numerically controlled water jet machine.  I had both

my radio subpanel and instrument panel done for $70. 



Steve Hagar

A143

Mesa AZ

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: avionics cut outs

Hello Danny



I have a Becker 4201 and TRT250. Also using a PS Engineering PMA-4000-IRS 

audio panel.



Sorry but can't help out with using 4201, havn't yet fired it up.



I used a flycutter to cut holes, think I purchased it from Aircraft

Spruce.Be prepared to get dirty, I used a cutting fluid that was Lard, but

whatever you do keep it plenty wet.



You need a piece of alloy to practice on to get hole sized proper.

Anticipate which way loads will be on tool, and load the tool before

tightening. This will put in your favor chance of size change is minimal.



Cut it out on a piece of nice flat plywood, and clamp, have pilot hole

already drilled.



If you are having a problem getting proper size, I used a caliper to

measure from other side of guide drill to cutting tip. Go slow as you can

with cutter speed and keep the bit cutting, keep the cutter sharp, I used

stone and lard every half dozen cuts to keep razor sharp, this will limit

chatter.



A few other ideas, I installed a UMA light wedge to match the

electroluminescent on the rest of panel.



I also used countersunk hardware, gives a nice finish. I used either Torx

Safety, torx or allen stainless hardware purchased from www.mcmaster.com.



I fooled with sandblasting hardware heads and it looks nice, if i hate it,

could easily paint.



Another issue I had with my Instrument module is the polyester layup was

not very well bonded to the wood. When trying to cut out the wood for

insert clearance, the stuff easily delaminated. I found by installing

nutplates which use aluminium flush pop rivets, and adding flush rivets

between the nutplates it held things much more better in place!



Hope this helps.



Ron Parigoris

danny shepherd

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 117
Location: north Wales, United Kingdom

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 3:31 am Post subject: avionics cut outs

Thanks, Steve,Peter, Ron and all.

                                                   Plenty of food for 

thought there. The good thing about these aluminum panels is, if I do 

c*ck it up, there reasonable cheep to replace !!!



Cheers Danny G-c.e.r.i.

topglock(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 8:13 am Post subject: avionics cut outs

Danny,



There are several ways to accomplish the task.  Water cutting is the 

most desirable, and is extremely accurate.  Laser will also work, though 

not usually as nice a cut.  Pre-sized hole punches do a very nice job, 

but are ususally pretty expensive, so if you're are not planning to do 

several panels, or rent the tools out, you might not want to go that 

route.  Then there thers's the old standby, the hole saw, used in a 

drill press.  A bit more work, but satisfactory results can be had, if 

you're careful.  If like some of us, you end up changing your panel 2 or 

3 times, adding this and that, you might want to give this a try.  My 

panel is built from .063 aluminum and I changed it up several times, 

before I was happy with it.  The hole saw did just fine after I learned 

the secret of getting smooth cuts.  If you go this route, just take your 

time and make sure to plan your panel precisely.  Good luck.



Jeff - Baby Blue

245 hours



danny(at)mcwalterscafe.co.uk wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 <danny(at)mcwalterscafe.co.uk>



 Hi All,

          I'm just getting to the point of digging deep into the 

 proverbial pocket and order the avionics. I was thinking of fitting 

 the Becker 4201 and the Filser TRT 600. both these units require 2 1/4 

 in cut outs in the avionics panel. I have the aluminum removable panel 

 from Europa. My question is, whats the best way of cutting the holes ? 

 and whats your opinion of these two units ? I know we don't have to 

 fit mode S yet, but I fear it's coming !!



 Cheers  Danny  G-c.e.r.i

danny shepherd

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 117
Location: north Wales, United Kingdom

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 9:07 am Post subject: avionics cut outs

Thanks for your reply Jeff. I think I might order a spare panel, er..... 

just in case !!!

Danny

Rman wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Danny,

 There are several ways to accomplish the task.  Water cutting is the 

 most desirable, and is extremely accurate.  Laser will also work, 

 though not usually as nice a cut.  Pre-sized hole punches do a very 

 nice job, but are ususally pretty expensive, so if you're are not 

 planning to do several panels, or rent the tools out, you might not 

 want to go that route.  Then there thers's the old standby, the hole 

 saw, used in a drill press.  A bit more work, but satisfactory results 

 can be had, if you're careful.  If like some of us, you end up 

 changing your panel 2 or 3 times, adding this and that, you might want 

 to give this a try.  My panel is built from .063 aluminum and I 

 changed it up several times, before I was happy with it.  The hole saw 

 did just fine after I learned the secret of getting smooth cuts.  If 

 you go this route, just take your time and make sure to plan your 

 panel precisely.  Good luck.

 Jeff - Baby Blue

 245 hours

 danny(at)mcwalterscafe.co.uk wrote:

> 

> <danny(at)mcwalterscafe.co.uk>

>

> Hi All,

>          I'm just getting to the point of digging deep into the 

> proverbial pocket and order the avionics. I was thinking of fitting 

> the Becker 4201 and the Filser TRT 600. both these units require 2 

> 1/4 in cut outs in the avionics panel. I have the aluminum removable 

> panel from Europa. My question is, whats the best way of cutting the 

> holes ? and whats your opinion of these two units ? I know we don't 

> have to fit mode S yet, but I fear it's coming !!

>

> Cheers  Danny  G-c.e.r.i

>

simon.miles(at)skynet.be
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2006 12:25 pm Post subject: avionics cut outs

Er, when I needed to make the holes for my Filser transponder and radio 

I just scribed the positions on the Europa supplied piece of Aluminium, 

drilled out approximately around my scribe lines, and carefully filed 

out until the units fitted. It took about 30 minutes for each. Have I 

missed something?



Simon Miles

Europa 508.

g-iani(at)ntlworld.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 2:19 am Post subject: avionics cut outs

All this talk of water jet and laser cutting is OK but you have to have

the service handy and it takes days by the time you have delivered and

collected. Drawing what you need in CAD first is a good idea and can

help spot the mistakes.  If you have the CAD drawing, and the service

available then by all means use it.



I am surprised that so many people seem reluctant to hand cut metal.

The following works just as well:-



Protect the surface with masking tape. Mark the cut-out you need.  Drill

one (or more) holes to allow jig saw blade through.  With variable speed

jig saw, and the correct blade, you can carefully saw round the shape in

two minutes.  Clean this up with a half round file (or drum sander) and

the job is done.



Does anyone have a use for a number of (just under) instrument size

aluminium disks?



Ian Rickard  #505 G-IANI XS Trigear

Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)

e-mail mods(at)europaclub.org.uk   

   or direct g-iani(at)ntlworld.com

rparigor(at)suffolk.lib.n
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: avionics cut outs

Hello Ian



I agree that traditional machining of panel is a viable means of

accomplishment. Once laid out, a flycutter works great. I takes just a bit

of diddling to get size correct, but once it is, do all those hole sizes.

If you are not doing all at once, flycutters are fair cheap, just buy 1

for each size and don't bother adjusting.



We got our panel cut first try on both, I tried to attach a pic.



We laid out entire panel with full sized copies of instruments to make

sure all fits as a first pass, then machined the trouble spots first which

dictated where the remainder will be placed.



"anyone have a use for a number of (just under) instrument size aluminium

disks?"



Yes a toy for kids of all ages, for younger kids blunt sharp edges and

glue string in center of hole, a good alternative for button / accordion

/spinner. You can polish to a high luster if you wish, or chuck up a #2

pencil and make some Spirit of Saint Lewis swirls with the eraser.



Good test pieces for a try at 3 BID Epoxy layup compared to a 1 BID Redux

with peel ply and 2 subsequent BID Epoxy 



If you make a pyramid out of them all progressively smaller, you could

make the 3 pin game where you need to move entire stack to another pin

without ever putting a larger on a smaller. Secret is keep the smallest

always going either clockwise or counter clockwise, start with 3, then 4,

it begins to require a lot of moves.



Good test for bonding ability of Rapid epoxy compared to JB Weld long

Cure, and JB Kwik for those who can get it.



Vise protectors for small parts.



Shims for leveling when machining stuff. 



Ron Parigoris

N4211W_Panel.JPG

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hagargs(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: avionics cut outs

Ron,



Good photograph of your panel.  I see you have the Becker xpndr and radio. 

That is what I put in my plane and have been nothing but happy with them. 

I'm surprised more people aren't using them.  they're compact and I am told

have a good reputation.



Steve Hagar 

A143

Test flying 24 hrs.



Steve Hagar

hagargs(at)earthlink.net

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