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canopy open

 
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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:46 pm    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

Chuck
glad you had enough wits to FLY THE PLANE. Smile
We can all learn from other peoples mishaps, thanks for telling us.
When my engine boiled on take off, then a hose burst, then the engine
swallowed glycol but unfortunately didn't stop, then? I've no idea but
the trim was badly nose high, (I checked the wreck a few weeks later,
we had a stick top trim button and I guess I nudged it accidentally) so
I must have been pushing hard, glycol on windscreen, not enough power
with trees and barn to avoid, I can only assume My gyro toppled.
Then the power came back suddenly and I guess the extra torque tripped
the left wing, (inside of turn) and in we went from 100 feet or so. At
least it didn't hurt, till later.
I have no memory of the accident but it tool me 6 weeks to get out of
hospital, fortunately most of what they screwed back on works. They were
good those guys but I was lucky. They were doing a trial at the hospital
that day, put as many surgeons as necessary on the case at once, I think
they said 7 guys worked on me at once. IT WORKED but I don't think it
worked for the bean counters.
I really should go back to the hospital and chase them up on their
conclusions to that successful experiment.
One very successful British NHS story. I do find it difficult to respect
beancounters. Our western education system still hasn't learnt what the
real values are. Maybe we should blame the bean counters for global
warming Wink
Graham
pholosoffing again, sorry


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jimpuglise(at)comcast.net
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:45 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

We had an unlatched canopy incident here at Punta Gorda last weekend. I Long Eze went in about a half mile from the departure end of the runway. The pilot is 72 and has been flying the airplane for 25 years. He tried to hold the canopy down and fly the airplane at the same time and it did not work very well. The airplane was pretty much destroyed but he got out with some bruises and a few broken bones. I think he is out of the hospital by now. The point for all of us is:

CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST

Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL

[quote]-------------- Original message --------------
From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com>

[quote] --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton


Chuck
glad you had enough wits to FLY THE PLANE. Smile
We can all learn from other peoples mishaps, thanks for telling us.
When my engine boiled on take off, then a hose burst, then the engine
swallowed glycol but unfortunately didn't stop, then? I've no idea but
the trim was badly nose high, (I checked the wreck a few weeks later,
we had a stick top trim button and I guess I nudged it accidentally) so
I must have been pushing hard, glycol on windscreen, not enough power
with trees and barn to avoid, I can only assume My gyro toppled.
Then the power came back suddenly and I gu ess th e extra torque tripped
the left wing, (inside of turn) and in we went from 100 feet or so. At
least it didn't hurt, till later.
I have no memory of the accident but it tool me 6 weeks to get out of
hospital, fortunately most of what they screwed back on works. They were
good those guys but I was lucky. They were doing a trial at the hospital
that day, put as many surgeons as necessary on the case at once, I think
they said 7 guys worked on me at once. IT WORKED but I don't think it
worked for the bean counters.
I really should go back to the hospital and chase them up on their
conclusions to that successful experiment.
One very successful British NHS story. I do find it difficult to respect
beancounters. Our western education system still hasn't learnt what the
real values are. Maybe we should blame the bean counters for global
warming Wink
Gra ham [b][b]


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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:08 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

Jim
it wasn't a Long EZ it was a Vari Eze, trickier airplane and higher
landing speed.
Graham

jimpuglise(at)comcast.net wrote:

Quote:
We had an unlatched canopy incident here at Punta Gorda last weekend.
I Long Eze went in about a half mile from the departure end of the
runway. The pilot is 72 and has been flying the airplane for 25
years. He tried to hold the canopy down and fly the airplane at the
same time and it did not work very well. The airplane was pretty much
destroyed but he got out with some bruises and a few broken bones. I
think he is out of the hospital by now. The point for all of us is:

CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST

Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL


**
**



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jeff(at)rmmm.net
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 10:30 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

Jim,
Here's an Idea. I had the local trophy shop make a small 2'' X 6 ''
plaque with the take off, landing, and cruise check list engraved in 3
columns. I placed it right at the top of the radio stack. It's black
with gold letters and it looks great! Cost was about $8.00. You cannot
punch the radio frequencies without looking at it. As you age you get
to know your misgivings and one of mine is if it's not written down...
I'll forget it!
Jeff
N128LJ Gold Rush

On Nov 29, 2006, at 11:44 AM, jimpuglise(at)comcast.net wrote:

Quote:
We had an unlatched canopy incident here at Punta Gorda last weekend. 
I Long Eze went in about a half mile from the departure end of the
runway.  The pilot is 72 and has been flying the airplane for 25
years.  He tried to hold the canopy down and fly the airplane at the
same time and it did not work very well.  The airplane was pretty much
destroyed but he got out with some bruises and a few broken bones.  I
think he is out of the hospital by now.  The point for all of us is:
 
CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST -- CHECKLIST
 
>


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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest





PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:11 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

We had here in Finland about one year
ago a similar accident and it was fatal.
After that and many other similar stories I
decided to do something and added four
Honeywell micro switches - one for each
shooting bolt. All of them must be engaged
to get green lights, they are serial connected.

Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure doors
against unintentionally opening during flight.
There is also a label "remove pip pin before
landing" - that is for possible emergency exit.

Check an attachment.

Raimo
=====
Raimo M W Toivio

OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417
OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk
OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines (grounded)

37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)
www.rwm.fi


[quote] ---


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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 11:12 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

We had here in Finland about one year
ago a similar accident and it was fatal.
After that and many other similar stories I
decided to do something and added four
Honeywell micro switches - one for each
shooting bolt. All of them must be engaged
to get green lights, they are serial connected.

Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure doors
against unintentionally opening during flight.
There is also a label "remove pip pin before
landing" - that is for possible emergency exit.

Check an attachment.

Raimo
=====
Raimo M W Toivio

OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417
OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk
OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines (grounded)

37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)
www.rwm.fi


[quote] ---


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m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:40 pm    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

I quite agree that prevention is better than cure, and anything that people do to pay attention to checklists/warning lights/checking security to ensure that the canopy doors are properly locked before takeoff is to be welcomed.

I am not convinced of the desirability of having any additional one locking mechanism to prevent opening in flight that might either prevent the pilot/passenger or outside rescuers from opening the canopy in the event of a crash landing. If, for example your engine failed on takeoff and you had to make an immediate forced landing without being able to choose where and without time to unlock the doors, you would not wish to jeopardise your chances of survival further by being locked in.

Graham is right: you must FLY THE AEROPLANE. If, for whatever reason, prevention has failed and a canopy door does unlatch in flight, then the handling pilot should think very carefully before deciding to risk holding onto the door if he is flying solo. Chuck Rhoads was fortunate to get away with it ("the landing became interesting because I had never used my right hand on the controls and thus there was no easy to control throttle, trim, etc. The landing actually turned out to be pretty good..."). The Europa will fly perfectly well after losing a door, and it may be far better to have this happen and accept that there will be a relatively minor repair than to risk the far more serious consequences of losing proper control, of which we have been given vivid examples in previous messages.

Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer


From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: 29 November 2006 19:15
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fw: canopy open


We had here in Finland about one year ago a similar accident and it was fatal. After that and many other similar stories I decided to do something and added four Honeywell micro switches - one for each shooting bolt. All of them must be engaged to get green lights, they are serial connected.



Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure doors against unintentionally opening during flight. There is also a label "remove pip pin before landing" - that is for possible emergency exit.



Check an attachment.



Raimo
[quote]
---


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raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:34 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

----- I am not convinced of the desirability of having any additional one locking mechanism to prevent opening in flight that might either prevent the pilot/passenger or outside rescuers from opening the canopy in the event of a crash landing. If, for example your engine failed on takeoff and you had to make an immediate forced landing without being able to choose where and without time to unlock the doors, you would not wish to jeopardise your chances of survival further by being locked in.
Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer


Yes - that is the other side of the story. Same problem is
in cars when driving in "bad" cities: doors should be
locked to prevent possible robberies in traffic lights
but they should be open for possible accidents.
Best locks open automatically when crashed.

I tell more about my personal safety plan: passenger side
door is always locked by pip-pin. That is because no-pilot-
passenger (child for example) is irresponsible. It takes only
one second to open the door by lifting the lever ("hey what
the hell is this?"). When locked w pip-pin there is more time
and pilot can prevent stupid or accidentally opening.

Notice: when parked pip-pin is a passenger side door lock!

Pilot side: pilot decides if he/she uses pilot side pip-pin or not.
I think it is safe to use well after take-off when levelled and unlock
again well before landing.

Of course after emergency landing you can find yourself
on it´s side locked side upp...

By the way - I am not sure - but I think most Cessna pilots do
lock both of the doors before take-off. I checked also my Cessna
flying manual and there was a clear order: before take take-off
do close and lock the doors (this is also for comfort: if not locked
you cannot use your armrests - locking lever is on its way when
unlocked position).

Life and flying is full of choices, happily.

I want to point: this all is IMHO. Copy or not!

Raimo
=====
Raimo M W Toivio

OH-XRT Europa XS Mono #417
OH-CVK C172 Skyhawk
OH-BLL Beechcraft C45 w radial engines (grounded)

37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450

raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi (raimo.toivio(at)rwm.fi)
www.rwm.fi



[quote]

Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure doors against unintentionally opening during flight. There is also a label "remove pip pin before landing" - that is for possible emergency exit.



Check an attachment.



Raimo
[quote]
---


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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 4:13 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

I tend to agree, Mike. Mal MaClure in Australia developed a very cheap,
very simple way of making the doors safe and stopping the slight bowing
that occurs when the fresh air vents are open. Ever had your shirt
sleeve gently tugged by the slight draft going under the bottom edge of
the door? I've an idea Bob Berube did something similar?
He fitted a small nylon wedge to the door and the door frame mid way
along the bottom of the door, the two wedges just latch and hold when
the door is closed. The door flexes slightly as it latches and
unlatches, (don't worry about this) If the door isn't fully closed it
won't be latched but you may still get the front shoot bolt in. Then
after take off there will be an unusual draft through the gear lever
slot, it's caused byt the air being sucked out of the cockpit through
the back edge of the door.
Mal's mod means you just latch the door and if it's latched, close the
shoot bolts. If it isn't latched don't lock it.
Graham

Mike Gregory wrote:

Quote:
I am not convinced of the desirability of having any additional one
locking mechanism to prevent opening in flight that might either
prevent the pilot/passenger or outside rescuers from opening the
canopy in the event of a crash landing. If, for example your engine
failed on takeoff and you had to make an immediate forced landing
without being able to choose where and without time to unlock the
doors, you would not wish to jeopardise your chances of survival
further by being locked in.



*
*



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wdaniell(at)etb.net.co
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:43 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

Is there any danger of the door flying off and damaging the tail – or is the tail robust enough?


From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gregory
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 15:39
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: canopy open


I quite agree that prevention is better than cure, and anything that people do to pay attention to checklists/warning lights/checking security to ensure that the canopy doors are properly locked before takeoff is to be welcomed.

I am not convinced of the desirability of having any additional one locking mechanism to prevent opening in flight that might either prevent the pilot/passenger or outside rescuers from opening the canopy in the event of a crash landing. If, for example your engine failed on takeoff and you had to make an immediate forced landing without being able to choose where and without time to unlock the doors, you would not wish to jeopardise your chances of survival further by being locked in.

Graham is right: you must FLY THE AEROPLANE. If, for whatever reason, prevention has failed and a canopy door does unlatch in flight, then the handling pilot should think very carefully before deciding to risk holding onto the door if he is flying solo. Chuck Rhoads was fortunate to get away with it ("the landing became interesting because I had never used my right hand on the controls and thus there was no easy to control throttle, trim, etc. The landing actually turned out to be pretty good..."). The Europa will fly perfectly well after losing a door, and it may be far better to have this happen and accept that there will be a relatively minor repair than to risk the far more serious consequences of losing proper control, of which we have been given vivid examples in previous messages.

Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer


From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio
Sent: 29 November 2006 19:15
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Fw: canopy open


We had here in Finland about one year ago a similar accident and it was fatal. After that and many other similar stories I decided to do something and added four Honeywell micro switches - one for each shooting bolt. All of them must be engaged to get green lights, they are serial connected.



Also I decided to use pip-pins to secure doors against unintentionally opening during flight. There is also a label "remove pip pin before landing" - that is for possible emergency exit.



Check an attachment.



Raimo
[quote]
---


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sqwk7000(at)cotswoldwirel
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:26 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

I remember in the hot weather last year, on one occasion I taxied/held with the canopy slightly open for fresh air (a common enough event, I suppose). Once cleared for take off, I closed the door quickly and took off. On the climb out I realised that the rear shoot bolt hadn't engaged.

I completed one circuit, keeping speed low, landed, stopped, engaged bolt then took off on the remaining (ample) runway. Naturally I was concerned that I might lose the door, but it was a non-event.

Moral of story?
1. ALWAYS check ALL four bolts.
2. During build, ensure that the bolts throw adequate distance into their holes. I recall that there was a mod that came round during my build to thicken the door frames where the bolts go.

David
G-SHSH (builder but no longer owner)
[quote] [b]


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grahamsingleton(at)btinte
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:23 am    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

David
better still is to put bushes into the door frames, Europa will sell you
a second set
Graham
sqwk7000 wrote:

Quote:
2. During build, ensure that the bolts throw adequate distance into
their holes. I recall that there was a mod that came round during my
build to thicken the door frames where the bolts go.

David
G-SHSH (builder but no longer owner)


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ami(at)mcfadyean.freeserv
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:25 pm    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

Or use brass tube; better than alloy on alloy.
Duncan McF.
---


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daseitz(at)cfl.rr.com
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:58 pm    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

<<<<Is there any danger of the door flying off and damaging the tail - or is
the tail robust enough? >>>>>

I can tell you from experience that the door will rip the hinges in half if
it opens at cruise speed!!!! Yes I made the mistake of not checking the
rear bolt in about the sixth hour on the plane. Was at 1600ft feeling the
air coming through the throttle slot trying to figure why. Door flew open
straight up. Before I could even think about grabbing it, it was gone. No
damage to airframe at all, just no door and mouth open. Aircraft flies fine
just don't try to use charts, a little windy. Built new door and always
check doors twice before takeoff.

Dean Seitz
N284A


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terrys(at)cisco.com
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 5:50 pm    Post subject: canopy open Reply with quote

Yes! If you feel air coming from the throttle slot, keep it slow and
return for an immediate landing.
A few months ago we went to Pine Mtn Lake for lunch and before the
return flight spent nearly a half hour with the door open on a hot day,
chatting with someone on the field. The door began warping in the heat,
so that when I closed the pilot's door, the rear bolt did not engage.
Immediately after take-off, we both noticed a breeze coming from the
gear retraction slot (it usually sucks air out at this location). All
was well at normal climb speed of about 80 kts, but when I leveled off
for a cruise climb of 100 kts the door popped open, BIG SURPRISE. The
door did not immediately depart the plane, and I quickly noticed that
left rudder would bring it back into arms reach. I reduced throttle and
yelled for my build partner in the right seat to take the plane, and
wrestled the door back and latched it. Although we did not lose the
door, we did lose the air strut. In retrospect, I think I did spend too
many brain cells on the door and way too few on flying the plane. It's
a good thing I had a pilot/passenger in the right seat.

I believe the event that finally caused the door to open was not the
increased airspeed, but the change in yaw that happened when I
transitioned from climb to cruise(climb).

Regards,
Terry Seaver
N135TD
--


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