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Which Oil Pressure Switch?
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Mudfly



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

Will do Bob. I'll try and get that set up tomorrow and post what I find.
Thanks.
Shawn

Shawn,

Could you set this hourmeter up on the bench
and measure the current draw on the enable
pin in the pull-up configuration? I think
I have a simple solution using p-lead
signal from a mag to drive the enable pin
but having that current value would facilitate
optimization of the components.


Bob . . .

////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
<Go>
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:27 pm    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

Whatever you choose for a transducer for any liquid pressure, make sure you install a restrictor in line to prevent major fluid loss in case of physical sensor leakage or breakage.
Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Apr 26, 2023, at 6:54 PM, Mudfly <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com> wrote:



Will do Bob. I'll try and get that set up tomorrow and post what I find.
Thanks.
Shawn



Shawn,

Could you set this hourmeter up on the bench
and measure the current draw on the enable
pin in the pull-up configuration? I think
I have a simple solution using p-lead
signal from a mag to drive the enable pin
but having that current value would facilitate
optimization of the components.


Bob . . .

////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========

< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.





Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=510710#510710









[/quote]


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Mudfly



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2023 4:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

Ok Bob here's what I did to check the hourmeter.
I connected a power supply to the positive and negative pins on the
hourmeter. This illuminated the LCD digits but elapsed time was not recorded. I then added the enable pin to the positive lead from
the power supply and elapsed time began recording.
Unfortunately, I was unable to measure any current draw with the
equipment I have. Probably too low I guess?
The placard on the hourmeter says 1/2W max.
Anything else I can do?
I took a video but didn't turn out too good. Attached a pic of my power supply.
Thanks,
Shawn

[quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly" <shawntedwards>

[quote="nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect"]At 07:56 AM 4/21/2023, you wrote:
[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly"


Shawn,

Could you set this hourmeter up on the bench
and measure the current draw on the enable
pin in the pull-up configuration? I think
I have a simple solution using p-lead
signal from a mag to drive the enable pin
but having that current value would facilitate
optimization of the components.


Bob . . .

////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
<Go>
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.[/quote]


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2023 6:56 am    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

At 07:41 PM 4/27/2023, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly" <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com>

Ok Bob here's what I did to check the hourmeter.
I connected a power supply to the positive and negative pins on the
hourmeter. This illuminated the LCD digits but elapsed time was not recorded. I then added the enable pin to the positive lead from
the power supply and elapsed time began recording.
Unfortunately, I was unable to measure any current draw with the
equipment I have. Probably too low I guess?
The placard on the hourmeter says 1/2W max.
Anything else I can do?

No, I've got an approach in mind. Let
me rummage around in the 'junk box'.



Bob . . .

////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.


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PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2023 1:35 pm    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

No, I've got an approach in mind. Let
me rummage around in the 'junk box'.

Got all the parts I need but one . . .
piggybacked it onto an order for
another project. I'll be able
to provide you a plug-n-play
adapter to trigger your hour-meter
using the p-lead signal off
your mag.



Bob . . .

////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.


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Mudfly



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 5:38 am    Post subject: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

Not sure if this is relative to my Hobbs meter "Enable" situation or
or not. I haven't had a chance to do my homework yet.
I will be using a SureFly and a Slick mag for my ignition setup. I discovered
the Surefly will not provide RPM output to the G3X system when the
Slickmag is switched off or inop. Surefly does have a Tach signal
converter that will solve this issue but, from what I understand, the
UMA T1A9-1 (see attachment below) will also solve the issue.
Again, I haven't had a chance to research the UMA T1A9 information yet but
wanted to bring this up in case it may be useful to my hobbs meter enable
function.
Thanks,
Shawn


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 8:11 am    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

At 08:38 AM 5/8/2023, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly" <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com>

Not sure if this is relative to my Hobbs meter "Enable" situation or
or not. I haven't had a chance to do my homework yet.
I will be using a SureFly and a Slick mag for my ignition setup. I discovered
the Surefly will not provide RPM output to the G3X system when the
Slickmag is switched off or inop.

Hmmm . . . how does the SureFly know anything
about the magneto condition?

Quote:
Surefly does have a Tach signal
converter that will solve this issue but, from what I understand, the
UMA T1A9-1 (see attachment below) will also solve the issue.

This is a powered, hall-effect sensor that
watches the magneto's magnet thus providing
a nice, clean square wave signal
completely independent of the magneto's
operating condition.
Quote:

Again, I haven't had a chance to research the UMA T1A9 information yet but
wanted to bring this up in case it may be useful to my hobbs meter enable
function.

Yes, it WOULD provide a signal compatible with
the proposed hour-meter enable interface. Unlike
my original idea, the hour-meter would continue
to run whether or not the magneto was 'active'.

It's a lot more expensive. My proposed interface
looks at the p-lead noise of a active magneto.
Of course, it the mag is "off", the hour meter
doesn't run. Errors for recording engine run time
should be very small to non existent . . . how
often and for how long would you plan to fly with
the magneto off?

Either way works. But I'm mystified as to why
the SureFly would depend on Slick operations
to provide a tach signal . . .


Bob . . .

////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.


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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 379
Location: MS

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 8:43 am    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

Quote:


  Either way works. But I'm mystified as to why
  the SureFly would depend on Slick operations
  to provide a tach signal . . .


  Bob . . .

I suspect that what he's saying is that the Surefly doesn't output a tach signal usable in the same fashion as the mag p-lead signal. Therefore, there's no signal to any electronic tach if the mag is off. Pretty common situation with aftermarket electronic ignitions for Lycs. 


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Mudfly



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2023 9:26 am    Post subject: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

 Either way works. But I'm mystified as to why
  the SureFly would depend on Slick operations
  to provide a tach signal . . .
Bob .

I suspect that what he's saying is that the Surefly doesn't output a tach signal usable in the same fashion as the mag p-lead signal. Therefore, there's no signal to any electronic tach if the mag is off. Pretty common situation with aftermarket electronic ignitions for Lycs.
Charlie .

Yes Charlie. The Surefly doesn't output a usable tach signal to the G3X. So, during mag chk on run-ups, the rpm drops to zero when slick mag is selected off. Some don't mind this and just listen for RPM drop. Definitely the most simple approach. I just like to make things difficult so I looked at options to still have RPM visible. It appeared the SureFly Tach sensor
and the UMA T1A9-1 were the popular options. I went with the T1A9-1.
Shawn .

Bob,
I purchased the T1A9-1 solely for the RPM function. It wasn't until I reviewed the documentation that I saw the "voltage out to hourmeter"
statement shown on pg2 of the document attached in my previous post.
Like you mentioned, I only want the hourmeter to record time when
the engine is running. Sounds like your method will accomplish that.

Thanks.
Shawn


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2023 7:09 am    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

At 11:43 AM 5/8/2023, you wrote:

Been out-of-pocket for a few days . . . returning
to the 'oil pressure switch thread' . . .

Quote:
 Either way works. But I'm mystified as to why  the SureFly would depend on Slick operations  to provide a tach signal . . .
 Bob . . .

I suspect that what he's saying is that the Surefly doesn't output a tach signal usable in the same fashion as the mag p-lead signal. Therefore, there's no signal to any electronic tach if the mag is off. Pretty common situation with aftermarket electronic ignitions for Lycs.


Aha! but of course. Given that a hall-effect
tach pickup has been added to the conversation,
making that signal activate the hour-meter as
well is easy. Of course, there's a further
benefit that the tach/hour-meter functions
are independent of conditions of either
ignition system.

I've sketched out an adapter circuit that would
interface the square wave output of your tachometer
pickup to the hour-meter.

The suggested transistor is hugely 'too-robust'
for the task but it's in a large package that
yields to 'spider-web' assembly of the components
directly to the transistor case before protecting
in some suitable encapsulant (E6000, JB Kwik, etc.)

Alternatively, this could be assembled on some
form of prototyping board in which case, ANY
logic level n-fet would be find.

If you wish, I can hammer this together out
of my junkbox. It would be fitted with flying
leads for interposition between your tach and
hour-meter.




Bob . . .

  ////
  (o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

In the interest of creative evolution
of the-best-we-know-how-to-do based
on physics and good practice.


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Mudfly



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2023 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

Thanks Bob.
Sounds like your plan is exactly what I'm looking for. Not sure I fully understand what's going on though.
You lost me at "I've sketched out an adapter circuit that would interface the square wave output of your
tachometer pickup to the hour-meter." Smile I can follow the diagrams basic
wiring, but still need some time in a dark corner to figure out the rest.
Slightly above my elctronical knowledge level.
I would happily accept/appreciate whatever you could come up with out of
your junkbox. Surely we can do some type of horse-trading to make it
worth your while.
Thanks again,
Shawn


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PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2023 7:11 am    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

At 04:30 PM 5/20/2023, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly" <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com>

Thanks Bob.
Sounds like your plan is exactly what I'm looking for. Not sure I fully understand what's going on though.
You lost me at "I've sketched out an adapter circuit that would interface the square wave output of your
tachometer pickup to the hour-meter." Smile I can follow the diagrams basic
wiring, but still need some time in a dark corner to figure out the rest.
Slightly above my elctronical knowledge level.
I would happily accept/appreciate whatever you could come up with out of
your junkbox. Surely we can do some type of horse-trading to make it
worth your while.
Thanks again,
Shawn

Very well sir. I'm mindful of the fact that
this forum is populated with a diversity
of experience and skills. It was not my wish
that you grasp the gritty details of my
proposal. But publishing the 'details'
affords opportunity for those interested
and willing to add the them to their
personal bag of tricks.

I'll scrape off a bit of space on the
workbench and hammer this thing together.



Bob . . .

////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

In the interest of creative evolution
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on physics and good practice.


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Mudfly



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2023 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

I've been off this topic for a while because I decided to install gear and
engine on my project. As always more new stuff to learn. Bob, let me
if you've had any luck with that adaptor circuit for the hobbs meter.
I hope to get back in the electrical game in a couple weeks.
Shawn


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 30, 2023 3:22 pm    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

At 02:00 PM 6/28/2023, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly" <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com>

I've been off this topic for a while because I decided to install gear and
engine on my project. As always more new stuff to learn. Bob, let me
if you've had any luck with that adaptor circuit for the hobbs meter.
I hope to get back in the electrical game in a couple weeks.

Yes. I've been 'out of pocket' for a bit.
Just delivered a batch of camera door actuator
controllers to a old customer that surprised
me with an order.

Cleaning up my temporary 'production
line' off the dinning room table!
I can get to the adapter after this
weekend.



Bob . . .

////
(o o)
===========o00o=(_)=o00o=========
< Go ahead, make my day . . . >
< show me where I'm wrong. >
=================================

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on physics and good practice.


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Mudfly



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 5:23 am    Post subject: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

I've been away from electrical work on my project while I installed
engine and related accessories.
I'm reviving this thread on ways to activate a hobbs meter without
using an oil pressure switch. I have an LED hobbs meter that I would
like to wire so that it will display the hours when the batt switch is on ,
but not count time. I would like the timer to begin when engine is started.
As a review from the previous threads above, I have a 3-terminal
hobbs (+, -, and Enable). The positive terminal is fed from the Main Power Bus when batt is switched, and negative to firewall ground bus. The LED
digits illuminate with Batt switch on. I now need a way to power the
Enable terminal to begin the timer.
I have an idea but not sure of the part I need or if it even exists.
Here the plan. The positive terminal will have the 12v input from the main power bus. Also, I will have a feed wire from the positive terminal to
the "Unknown Device". The wire will continue from the unknown
device to the Enable pin on the hobbs meter. The "Unknown Device"
will need to block power until volts are above batt voltage..
say 13V??. When the engine is started and alternator is switched on,
power will pass the unknown device and power the enable terminal of the
hobbs meter.
Does this "Unknown Device" exist, and does the plan seem feasible?
Links to PDF drawings of a simple wire diagram and also tech sheet of the
Honeywell LCD Hour meter.
Thanks for the help.
Shawn


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kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 424

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 7:34 am    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

I have a battery charger that senses vibration caused when the engine is started, and uses that as a trigger. I wouldn't have any idea how to procure or implement a vibration sensor as a trigger for your Hobbs, but I'll bet some of the guys on this list do.

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 5:28 AM Mudfly <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com (shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly" <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com (shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com)>

I've been away from electrical work on my project while I installed
engine and related accessories.   
I'm reviving this thread on ways to activate a hobbs meter without
using an oil pressure switch.  I have an LED hobbs meter that I would
like to wire so that it will display the hours when the batt switch is on ,
but not count time.   I would like the timer to begin when engine is started.
As a review from the previous threads above, I have a 3-terminal
hobbs (+, -, and Enable).    The positive terminal is fed from the Main Power Bus when batt is switched, and negative to firewall ground bus. The LED
digits illuminate with Batt switch on.   I now need a way to power the
Enable terminal to begin the timer.   
I have an idea but not sure of the part I need or if it even exists.
Here the plan.  The positive terminal will have the 12v input from the main power bus.  Also, I will have a feed wire from the positive terminal to
the "Unknown Device".   The wire will continue from the unknown
device to the Enable pin on the hobbs meter.    The "Unknown Device"
will need to block power until volts are above batt voltage..
say 13V??.   When the engine is started and alternator is switched on,
power will pass the unknown device and power the enable terminal of the
hobbs meter.   
Does this "Unknown Device" exist, and does the plan seem feasible?
Links to PDF drawings of a simple wire diagram and also tech sheet of the
Honeywell LCD Hour meter.
Thanks for the help.
Shawn




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http://forums.matronics.com//files/hobbs_meter_117.pdf



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:17 am    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 8:28 AM Mudfly <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com (shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly" <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com (shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com)>

I've been away from electrical work on my project while I installed
engine and related accessories.   
I'm reviving this thread on ways to activate a hobbs meter without
using an oil pressure switch.  I have an LED hobbs meter that I would
like to wire so that it will display the hours when the batt switch is on ,
but not count time.   I would like the timer to begin when engine is started.
As a review from the previous threads above, I have a 3-terminal
hobbs (+, -, and Enable).    The positive terminal is fed from the Main Power Bus when batt is switched, and negative to firewall ground bus. The LED
digits illuminate with Batt switch on.   I now need a way to power the
Enable terminal to begin the timer.   
I have an idea but not sure of the part I need or if it even exists.
Here the plan.  The positive terminal will have the 12v input from the main power bus.  Also, I will have a feed wire from the positive terminal to
the "Unknown Device".   The wire will continue from the unknown
device to the Enable pin on the hobbs meter.    The "Unknown Device"
will need to block power until volts are above batt voltage..
say 13V??.   When the engine is started and alternator is switched on,
power will pass the unknown device and power the enable terminal of the
hobbs meter.   
Does this "Unknown Device" exist, and does the plan seem feasible?
Links to PDF drawings of a simple wire diagram and also tech sheet of the
Honeywell LCD Hour meter.
Thanks for the help.
Shawn

1st thing that comes to mind is a comparator circuit. It looks at two inputs, and outputs when the trigger input exceeds the reference input. If you set the reference input to 13V using a voltage regulator, then the trigger input would go above that when the alternator comes on line. Potential downside is that the Hobbs will stop counting if the alternator fails.
If you don't know about it, a 'Tiny Tach' works in a similar manner but has an internal battery. The sense lead is normally wrapped around a spark plug lead; won't work with shielded leads. But you can make it work with a slight mod to the distributor cap on a mag.
Charlie

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mike_tailwind



Joined: 06 Feb 2017
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 8:26 am    Post subject: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

You could modify Bob's latest overvoltage module to do what you need. Change the trip point to 13.5 volts, and remove the SCR.
From schematic 9003-630-IP6:
Change R7 from 13.7K to 11K
Remove Q15
Add a wire from U11B pin 7 to the enable input of the hour meter.
What we don't know is how much current the enable input to the hour meter draws. To test, place a 2.49K resistor between the enable input of the hourmeter and 12Volts. If it starts counting, no additional changes to the OVM need to be made.  

On Tuesday, March 26, 2024 at 08:34:33 AM CDT, Mudfly <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com> wrote:




--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Mudfly" <shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com (shawntedwards(at)hotmail.com)>

I've been away from electrical work on my project while I installed

engine and related accessories.

I'm reviving this thread on ways to activate a hobbs meter without

using an oil pressure switch. I have an LED hobbs meter that I would

like to wire so that it will display the hours when the batt switch is on ,

but not count time. I would like the timer to begin when engine is started.

As a review from the previous threads above, I have a 3-terminal

hobbs (+, -, and Enable). The positive terminal is fed from the Main Power Bus when batt is switched, and negative to firewall ground bus. The LED

digits illuminate with Batt switch on. I now need a way to power the

Enable terminal to begin the timer.

I have an idea but not sure of the part I need or if it even exists.

Here the plan. The positive terminal will have the 12v input from the main power bus. Also, I will have a feed wire from the positive terminal to

the "Unknown Device". The wire will continue from the unknown

device to the Enable pin on the hobbs meter. The "Unknown Device"

will need to block power until volts are above batt voltage..

say 13V??. When the engine is started and alternator is switched on,

power will pass the unknown device and power the enable terminal of the

hobbs meter.

Does this "Unknown Device" exist, and does the plan seem feasible?

Links to PDF drawings of a simple wire diagram and also tech sheet of the

Honeywell LCD Hour meter.

Thanks for the help.

Shawn

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=513410#513410

Attachments:

http://forums.matronics.com//files/honeywell_lcd_hour_meter_173.pdf

http://forums.matronics.com//files/hobbs_meter_117.pdf

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Mudfly



Joined: 04 Feb 2012
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Which Oil Pressure Switch? Reply with quote

Thanks for the Ideas.
Kenryan, I have seen the vibration activated hour meters. Definitely
the most simple solution. Unfortunately, I already have the Honeywell
installed in my panel and will try and make that work if I can.

Charlie, I will do some studying of the comparator circuit. Looks like
it could work.

Mike, Thanks for the details on how to modify Bob's overvoltage module.
I haven't been able to locate schematic 9003-630-IP6 you mentioned. I
will keep searching.

Shawn


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1908
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2024 10:20 am    Post subject: Voltage Controlled Switch Reply with quote

eBay item number:364742288098 might be the device that you are looking for.
Or maybe this one from Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/XH-M609-Digital-Disconnect-Discharge-Protection/dp/B07WRZSJ5M
Instructions written in Chinlish:
https://www.robotics.org.za/XH-M609


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