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speaking of solenoids

 
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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 378
Location: MS

PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 5:24 am    Post subject: speaking of solenoids Reply with quote

My neighbor sourced a starter solenoid online (I forget if it was ebay or Amazon) and it worked for about 2 flights before going intermittent. When he disassembled it, he saw this method of grounding the coil wire. I'm not immune to using 'generic' parts, but this does show that it makes sense to verify quality on parts with unknown pedigree.

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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 7:32 am    Post subject: speaking of solenoids Reply with quote

That kind of thing makes me wonder if and how, cheap low-quality look-alikes might infiltrate legitimate supply chains.
Makes me kinda nervous but also makes me feel a little better about spending 2x or 3x as much for a "genuine Ford (or whatever manufacturer)" part.
Caveat Emptor and you get what you pay for (how do you say that in Latin?Wink
-Jeff

On Tuesday, May 25, 2021, 06:35:23 AM PDT, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:




My neighbor sourced a starter solenoid online (I forget if it was ebay or Amazon) and it worked for about 2 flights before going intermittent. When he disassembled it, he saw this method of grounding the coil wire. I'm not immune to using 'generic' parts, but this does show that it makes sense to verify quality on parts with unknown pedigree.


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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 8:03 am    Post subject: speaking of solenoids Reply with quote

At 08:21 AM 5/25/2021, you wrote:
Quote:
My neighbor sourced a starter solenoid online (I forget if it was ebay or Amazon) and it worked for about 2 flights before going intermittent. When he disassembled it, he saw this method of grounding the coil wire. I'm not immune to using 'generic' parts, but this does show that it makes sense to verify quality on parts with unknown pedigree.

Yup . . .

There are many sources for form-fit-function
contactors that would appear to fill the need.
Fortunately, most are probably of good value
and will perform well. It is not DIFFICULT
to avoid pot-holes in design such as you've
discovered. But design isn't always the
problem.

Check out the illustrations at:

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/70%20Series%20Contactors/

In particular, this image at

[url=http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/70%20Series%20Contactors/70%20Series%20Failure%20(circa%202000)/TearDown_10.jpg] http://www.aeroelectric.com/Pictures/Contactors/70%20Series%20Contactors/70%20Series%20Failure%20(circa%202000)/TearDown_10.jpg[/url]

This contactor failed for lack of due diligence
in assembly . . . which can happen to anybody.
All of the products illustrated in this series
of pictures were nominally well suited to task
by manufacturers with good track records.

For those interested in such things, here's the
after market electrical/ignition parts catalog
from Standard (caution . . . it's a big one ~190MB).

http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Standard/Ignition%20and%20Electrical%20Illustrated%20Parts%20Guide.pdf

On page 1513 we find the SS-598 Starter 'Solenoid".
This device probably has the largest applications
list of all Standard contactors. I've been
citing this part (and it's close cousins) for
decades. As you can see from the catalog, Standard
is one of the 'big dogs' in the after market parts
business. If anyone has had both time and incentive
to get it right, Standard is a good place to start.

One thing I did notice while browsing the catalog is
no mention of diode suppression on the coil. I
used to sell a contactor with the necessary
diode and if memory serves, it was a Standard
part but 20+ years have stretched the gray matter
thin.

I'll check with B&C to see if they're selling
the diode suppressed product and identify
its pedigree.

If the device is not specifically marked
as 'diode suppressed', you can test it
(I'll need to do a video on how) or simply
add a diode for the heck of it. Two diodes
is not 'better' than one . . . but no diode
is not a good thing. Coil energy release
in starter contactors is particularly wicked.


Bob . . .

Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:14 pm    Post subject: speaking of solenoids Reply with quote

Quote:

I'll check with B&C to see if they're selling
the diode suppressed product and identify
its pedigree.

Dave at B&C assures me that their S702-1 DOES
include the coil suppression diode although it's
no longer cited on either the box -or- the part
itself.

My goof - their website DOES call out this
feature.

https://bandc.com/product/intermittent-duty-starter-contactor/

Electrical testing for existence of the
diode is not difficult . . . but it's something
that it would be nice not to worry about.
At the same time, lacking specific knowledge
of it's presence kinda encourages one to add
it to the outside . . . just-in-case. Also
a PITA.

I'll pray over this a bit.


Bob . . .

Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 4:51 pm    Post subject: speaking of solenoids Reply with quote

Quote:
If the device is not specifically marked
as 'diode suppressed', you can test it
(I'll need to do a video on how) or simply
add a diode for the heck of it. Two diodes
is not 'better' than one . . . but no diode
is not a good thing. Coil energy release
in starter contactors is particularly wicked.

I've got a idea for a stone-simple,
'catch diode sniffer' for contactors.
I need to proof it on the bench but I'm
pretty sure I can post a bill-of-materials
and schematic presently. Need to replace
shocks on the truck first.



Bob . . .

Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes
survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane
out of that stuff?"


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