Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> LycomingEngines-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 7:02 am Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

I ass-ume that from your description the engine was a carbureted version 

of O-30 that has been converted to fuel injection, and has parallel 

valve cylinders. Does it have Bendix/Precision RSA injection or Air Flow 

Performance injection?

Fuel flow normally has to be set by a repair station that has a flow 

bench. You should see around 18gph for full power at take-off.

I would measure that by seeing EGT of between 1200 and 1300 degrees. If 

hotter, you need more fuel flow.

For cruise at 75% or less, peak EGT should be around 1450-1500, but 

there is no limit.

CHT you want to keep it below 400, but brief excursions to 425-430 are 

okay as long as you are taking action to reduce the temps...don't stay 

there. The higher compression will tend to make CHT higher, so you need 

to manage that. Your electronic ignition will also tend to make engine 

run hotter, so be sure you have good cooling, air tight baffling, etc.



Assuming a max power of around 200 hp, your 75% power would be 150 hp. 

LOP you can determine that power as 10 gph. 65% would be 8.6 gph.

I don't know if there is a good POH power setting page for your 

compression. Lycoming did build an angle valve cylinder IO-360 with 10:1 

compression for helicopters, so if you could find a POH for that, might 

be helpful for ROP settings. Firewall Forward had an STC for installing 

those helicopter engine pistons in 200 hp Cardinals and 

Mooneys...perhaps they generated some handbook.



On 11/5/2017 7:30 AM, Paul Collins wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   To the “Engine-Smart” and experienced group,

 

                  I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and 

 Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by EGT and 

 CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.

 

                  So, how would this experienced group set the 

 fuel-flow?  What limits/measurements would you use??

 

  1. Run by EGT?  If so, what limits??

  2. Run by CHT? If so, what limits??

  3. Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??

  4. Run by congressional budget?  If so, what limits??

 

 Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to start 

 thinking about these things – and shovel snow.

 

 Thanks for your consideration,

 

 Paul Collins

 

 N8ZV

 

 Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for 

 Windows 10

 

 *From: *LycomingEngines-List Digest Server 

 <mailto:lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com>

 *Sent: *Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

 *To: *LycomingEngines-List Digest List 

 <mailto:lycomingengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com>

 *Subject: *LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

 

 *

 

 =========================

 

     Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive

 

 =========================

 

 Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either 

 of the

 

 two Web Links listed below.  The .html file includes the Digest formatted

 

 in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes

 

 and Message Navigation.  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version

 

 of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text 

 editor

 

 such as Notepad or with a web browser.

 

 HTML Version:

 

      

 http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

 

 Text Version:

 

      

 http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

 

 =======================

 

     EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive

 

 =======================

 

             ----------------------------------------------------------

 

                             LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive

 

                                        ---

 

                       Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 0

 

             ----------------------------------------------------------

 

 Today's Message Index:

 

 ----------------------

- The Matronics LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

Amen, second that recommendation.

Lycoming either considers pilots too stupid or incompetent to monitor 

and adjust mixture; or they don't understand the concepts their own data 

demonstrates.

Have operated a 200 hp Lycoming for 15 years LOP with no problems. Flew 

my RV-10 with IO-540 from AZ to OSH and back LOP, with no problems.

Air Flow Performance and GAMI can give good guidance.

You really don't have to worry about how lean the mixture is once you 

reduce to 65% power or less.

Kelly

A&P/IA



On 11/5/2017 7:10 PM, Ray Eaker wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   You’d be better off reading John Deakin’s pelican Perch  articles. Many 

 old POH docs and some eng MFG docs are misleading.

 

 On Nov 5, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com 

 <mailto:cluros(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

 

 I would also look at Lycoming's more recent guidance:

 

 https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1497a

 

 On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com 

 <mailto:cluros(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

 

     Paul, until you know a lot more I suggest you don't follow any

     advice you find online and for now follow the procedure in your

     engine manual (pasted below)

 

     IO-360 Operator's Manual

 

     Section 3

 

     7.

 

     c. Fuel Mixture Leaning Procedure.

 

     Improper fuel/air mixture during flight is responsible for engine

     problems, particularly during takeoff and climb power settings. The

     procedures described in this manual provide proper fuel/air mixture

     when leaning Lycoming engines; they have proven to be both

     economical and practical by eliminating excessive fuel consumption

     and reducing damaged parts replacement. It is therefore recommended

     that operators of all Lycoming aircraft engines utilize the

     instructions in this publication any time the fuel/air mixture is

     adjusted during flight.

 

     Manual leaning may be monitored by exhaust gas temperature

     indication, fuel flow indication, and by observation of engine speed

     and/or airspeed. However, whatever instruments are used in

     monitoring the mixture, the following general rules must be observed

     by the operator of Lycoming aircraft engines.

 

     Never exceed the maximum red line cylinder head temperature limit.

 

     For maximum service life, cylinder head temperatures should be

     maintained below 435°F (224°C) during high performance cruise

     operation and below 400°F (205°C) for economy cruise powers.

 

     Do not manually lean engines equipped with automatically controlled

     fuel system.

 

     On engines with manual mixture control, maintain mixture control in

     “Full Rich” position for rated takeoff, climb, and maximum cruise

     powers (above approximately 75%). However, during take-off from high

     elevation airport or during climb, roughness or loss of power may

     result from over-richness. In such a case adjust mixture control

     only enough to obtain smooth operation – not for economy. Observe

     instruments for temperature rise. Rough operation due to over-rich

     fuel/air mixture is most likely to be encountered in carbureted

     engines at altitude above 5,000 feet.

 

     Always return the mixture to full rich before increasing power

     settings.

 

     Operate the engine at maximum power mixture for performance cruise

     powers and at best economy mixture for economy cruise power; unless

     otherwise specified in the airplane owner’s manual.

 

     During letdown flight operations it may be necessary to manually

     lean uncompensated carbureted or fuel injected engines to obtain

     smooth operation.

 

     1. LEANING TO EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE GAGE.

           a. Normally aspirated engines with fuel injectors or

     uncompensated carburetors.

                (1) Maximum Power Cruise (approximately 75% power) –

     Never lean beyond 150°F on rich side of peak EGT unless aircraft

     operator’s manual shows otherwise. Monitor cylinder head temperatures.

                (2) Best Economy Cruise (approximately 75% power and

     below) – Operate at peak EGT.

 

     2. LEANING TO FLOWMETER.

           Lean to applicable fuel-flow tables or lean to indicator

     marked for correct fuel flow for each power setting.

 

     3. LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power

     or less, without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)

           a. Carbureted Engines.

                (1) Slowly move mixture control from “Full Rich” position

     toward lean position.

                (2) Continue leaning until engine roughness is noted.

                (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.

           b. Fuel Injected Engines.

                (1) Slowly move mixture control from “Full Rich” position

     toward lean position.

                (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted

     (loss of power may or may not be accompanied by roughness.

                (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.

 

     If you want to learn more about the how and why, I would suggest

     starting here:

 

     http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/2274677932001/webinar--leaning-basics?autoStart=true&q=leaning

     <http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/2274677932001/webinar--leaning-basics?autoStart=true&q=leaning>

 

     On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 6:30 AM, Paul Collins <collins04(at)cableone.net

     <mailto:collins04(at)cableone.net>> wrote:

 

         To the “Engine-Smart” and experienced group,

 

                          I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and

         Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by

         EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.

 

                          So, how would this experienced group set the

         fuel-flow?  What limits/measurements would you use??

 

          1. Run by EGT?  If so, what limits??

          2. Run by CHT? If so, what limits??

          3. Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??

          4. Run by congressional budget?  If so, what limits??

 

         __ __

 

         Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to

         start thinking about these things – and shovel snow.

 

         __ __

 

         Thanks for your consideration,

 

         Paul Collins

 

         N8ZV

 

         __ __

 

         Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>

         for Windows 10

 

         __ __

 

         *From: *LycomingEngines-List Digest Server

         <mailto:lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com>

         *Sent: *Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

         *To: *LycomingEngines-List Digest List

         <mailto:lycomingengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com>

         *Subject: *LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

 

         __ __

 

         *

 

         __ __

 

         =========================

 

             Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive

 

         =========================

 

         __ __

 

         Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found

         in either of the

 

         two Web Links listed below.  The .html file includes the Digest

         formatted

 

         in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked

         Indexes

 

         and Message Navigation.  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII

         version

 

         of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a

         generic text editor

 

         such as Notepad or with a web browser.

 

         __ __

 

         HTML Version:

 

         __ __

 

         http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

         <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines>

 

         __ __

 

         Text Version:

 

         __ __

 

         http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

         <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines>

 

         __ __

 

         __ __

 

         =======================

 

             EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive

 

         =======================

 

         __ __

 

                     ----------------------------------------------------------

 

                                     LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive

 

                  ---

 

                               Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 0

 

                    

         ----------------------------------------------------------

 

         Today's Message Index:

 

         ----------------------

 

         __ __

 

         __ __

 

         __ __

- The Matronics LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

stuart(at)stuarthutchison
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:46 pm Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

And let’s face it ... the OEM stills sells Lyconosours (what are effectively a very simple to manufacture, 70 year-old design - albeit very inefficient and highly reliable) for at least five times what it actually costs to produce.



Much of the ‘fear’ of LOP stems from years of operations with only one EGT and one CHT sensor instead of four or six. Now we are able to know (and record for later analysis) what is actually occurring in all the cylinders.



Kind Regards, Stu



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 6 Nov 2017, at 13:22, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Amen, second that recommendation.

 Lycoming either considers pilots too stupid or incompetent to monitor and adjust mixture; or they don't understand the concepts their own data demonstrates.

 Have operated a 200 hp Lycoming for 15 years LOP with no problems. Flew my RV-10 with IO-540 from AZ to OSH and back LOP, with no problems.

 Air Flow Performance and GAMI can give good guidance.

 You really don't have to worry about how lean the mixture is once you reduce to 65% power or less.

 Kelly

 A&P/IA

 

> On 11/5/2017 7:10 PM, Ray Eaker wrote:

> You’d be better off reading John Deakin’s pelican Perch  articles. Many old POH docs and some eng MFG docs are misleading.

> On Nov 5, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com <mailto:cluros(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

> I would also look at Lycoming's more recent guidance:

> https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1497a

> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com <mailto:cluros(at)gmail.com>> wrote:

>    Paul, until you know a lot more I suggest you don't follow any

>    advice you find online and for now follow the procedure in your

>    engine manual (pasted below)

>    IO-360 Operator's Manual

>    Section 3

>    7.

>    c. Fuel Mixture Leaning Procedure.

>    Improper fuel/air mixture during flight is responsible for engine

>    problems, particularly during takeoff and climb power settings. The

>    procedures described in this manual provide proper fuel/air mixture

>    when leaning Lycoming engines; they have proven to be both

>    economical and practical by eliminating excessive fuel consumption

>    and reducing damaged parts replacement. It is therefore recommended

>    that operators of all Lycoming aircraft engines utilize the

>    instructions in this publication any time the fuel/air mixture is

>    adjusted during flight.

>    Manual leaning may be monitored by exhaust gas temperature

>    indication, fuel flow indication, and by observation of engine speed

>    and/or airspeed. However, whatever instruments are used in

>    monitoring the mixture, the following general rules must be observed

>    by the operator of Lycoming aircraft engines.

>    Never exceed the maximum red line cylinder head temperature limit.

>    For maximum service life, cylinder head temperatures should be

>    maintained below 435°F (224°C) during high performance cruise

>    operation and below 400°F (205°C) for economy cruise powers.

>    Do not manually lean engines equipped with automatically controlled

>    fuel system.

>    On engines with manual mixture control, maintain mixture control in

>    “Full Rich” position for rated takeoff, climb, and maximum cruise

>    powers (above approximately 75%). However, during take-off from high

>    elevation airport or during climb, roughness or loss of power may

>    result from over-richness. In such a case adjust mixture control

>    only enough to obtain smooth operation – not for economy. Observe

>    instruments for temperature rise. Rough operation due to over-rich

>    fuel/air mixture is most likely to be encountered in carbureted

>    engines at altitude above 5,000 feet.

>    Always return the mixture to full rich before increasing power

>    settings.

>    Operate the engine at maximum power mixture for performance cruise

>    powers and at best economy mixture for economy cruise power; unless

>    otherwise specified in the airplane owner’s manual.

>    During letdown flight operations it may be necessary to manually

>    lean uncompensated carbureted or fuel injected engines to obtain

>    smooth operation.

>    1. LEANING TO EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE GAGE.

>          a. Normally aspirated engines with fuel injectors or

>    uncompensated carburetors.

>               (1) Maximum Power Cruise (approximately 75% power) –

>    Never lean beyond 150°F on rich side of peak EGT unless aircraft

>    operator’s manual shows otherwise. Monitor cylinder head temperatures.

>               (2) Best Economy Cruise (approximately 75% power and

>    below) – Operate at peak EGT.

>    2. LEANING TO FLOWMETER.

>          Lean to applicable fuel-flow tables or lean to indicator

>    marked for correct fuel flow for each power setting.

>    3. LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power

>    or less, without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)

>          a. Carbureted Engines.

>               (1) Slowly move mixture control from “Full Rich” position

>    toward lean position.

>               (2) Continue leaning until engine roughness is noted.

>               (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.

>          b. Fuel Injected Engines.

>               (1) Slowly move mixture control from “Full Rich” position

>    toward lean position.

>               (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted

>    (loss of power may or may not be accompanied by roughness.

>               (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.

>    If you want to learn more about the how and why, I would suggest

>    starting here:

>    http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/2274677932001/webinar--leaning-basics?autoStart=true&q=leaning

>    <http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/2274677932001/webinar--leaning-basics?autoStart=true&q=leaning>

>    On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 6:30 AM, Paul Collins <collins04(at)cableone.net

>    <mailto:collins04(at)cableone.net>> wrote:

>        To the “Engine-Smart” and experienced group,

>                         I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and

>        Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by

>        EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.

>                         So, how would this experienced group set the

>        fuel-flow?  What limits/measurements would you use??

>         1. Run by EGT?  If so, what limits??

>         2. Run by CHT? If so, what limits??

>         3. Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??

>         4. Run by congressional budget?  If so, what limits??

>        __ __

>        Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to

>        start thinking about these things – and shovel snow.

>        __ __

>        Thanks for your consideration,

>        Paul Collins

>        N8ZV

>        __ __

>        Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>

>        for Windows 10

>        __ __

>        *From: *LycomingEngines-List Digest Server

>        <mailto:lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com>

>        *Sent: *Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

>        *To: *LycomingEngines-List Digest List

>        <mailto:lycomingengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com>

>        *Subject: *LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

>        __ __

>        *

>        __ __

>        =========================

>            Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive

>        =========================

>        __ __

>        Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found

>        in either of the

>        two Web Links listed below.  The .html file includes the Digest

>        formatted

>        in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked

>        Indexes

>        and Message Navigation.  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII

>        version

>        of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a

>        generic text editor

>        such as Notepad or with a web browser.

>        __ __

>        HTML Version:

>        __ __

>        http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

>        <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines>

>        __ __

>        Text Version:

>        __ __

>        http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

>        <http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter 17-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines>

>        __ __

>        __ __

>        =======================

>            EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive

>        =======================

>        __ __

>                    ----------------------------------------------------------

>                                    LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive

>                 ---

>                              Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 0

>                           ----------------------------------------------------------

>        Today's Message Index:

>        ----------------------

>        __ __

>        __ __

>        __ __

- The Matronics LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> LycomingEngines-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum