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collins04(at)cableone.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:32 am Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

To the â€œEngine-Smartâ€ and experienced group,

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.Â  

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  So, how would this experienced group set the fuel-flow?Â  What limits/measurements would you use??Run by EGT?Â  If so, what limits??
Run by CHT? If so, what limits??
Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??
Run by congressional budget?Â  If so, what limits??

 

Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to start thinking about these things â€“ and shovel snow.

 

Thanks for your consideration,

Paul Collins

N8ZV

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

To: LycomingEngines-List Digest List (lycomingengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com)

Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17



 

*

 

 =========================

Â Â  Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive

 =========================

 

Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the 

two Web Links listed below.Â  The .html file includes the Digest formatted 

in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes 

and Message Navigation.Â  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version 

of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor 

such as Notepad or with a web browser. 

 

HTML Version:

 

Â Â Â  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

 

Text Version:

 

Â Â Â  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

 

 

 =======================

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Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ---

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 0

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ----------------------------------------------------------

 

Â 

Today's Message Index:

----------------------

 

Â 

Â 

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Â 





 

Â

- The Matronics LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

Hi Paul,



If you have FUEL INJECTION, you have an IO-360, not an O-360.

Now, to keep things simple, donâ€™t even look at the EGT.Â  Use your ears and the vibrations you feel.Â  My feet are closest to the engine so I feel things through my toes.Â  Lean till the engine runs rough and then give a slight twist to rich. Â  THEN! If you want to cross check against EGT go ahead.Â  There are no max limits to EGT, NONE in any manuals, but my personal limit is 1400 F.

Now, cross check your CHT.Â  There are limits there.Â  LYCOMING says max of 450 F.Â  I use 400 F as my max.Â  REMEMBER!Â  Temperature gauges are a LAGING instrument. By the time you SEE your temp, it is beyond that point.

BarryÂ 



On Sunday, November 5, 2017, Paul Collins <collins04(at)cableone.net (collins04(at)cableone.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

To the â€œEngine-Smartâ€ and experienced group,

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.Â  

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  So, how would this experienced group set the fuel-flow?Â  What limits/measurements would you use??Run by EGT?Â  If so, what limits??
Run by CHT? If so, what limits??
Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??
Run by congressional budget?Â  If so, what limits??

Â 

Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to start thinking about these things â€“ and shovel snow.

Â 

Thanks for your consideration,

Paul Collins

N8ZV

Â 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Â 

From: [url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com');]LycomingEngines-List Digest Server[/url]

Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

To: [url=javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','lycomingengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com');]LycomingEngines-List Digest List[/url]

Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17



Â 

*

Â 

 =========================

Â Â  Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive

 =========================

Â 

Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the 

two Web Links listed below.Â  The .html file includes the Digest formatted 

in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes 

and Message Navigation.Â  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version 

of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor 

such as Notepad or with a web browser. 

Â 

HTML Version:

Â 

Â Â Â  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

Â 

Text Version:

Â 

Â Â Â  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

Â 

Â 

 =======================

Â Â  EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive

 =======================

Â 

 

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ----------------------------------------------------------

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ---

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 0

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ----------------------------------------------------------

 

Â 

Today's Message Index:

----------------------

 

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Â 





 

Â 

Â 

Â 

Â 



	


-- 

Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.

- The Matronics LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List

rayeaker(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:23 am Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

Lots of contradictions there, Barry. 

EGT temps are relative. The value itself (eg 1400) is mostly meaningless but can be meaningful for troubleshooting a problem. The value relative to PEAK is what matters (and it matters) for lean operations. The feel of your feet, not so much, but once you know how your engine feels using the engine monitor values, it might help. 



On Nov 5, 2017, at 2:06 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Hi Paul,



If you have FUEL INJECTION, you have an IO-360, not an O-360.

Now, to keep things simple, donâ€™t even look at the EGT.  Use your ears and the vibrations you feel.  My feet are closest to the engine so I feel things through my toes.  Lean till the engine runs rough and then give a slight twist to rich.   THEN! If you want to cross check against EGT go ahead.  There are no max limits to EGT, NONE in any manuals, but my personal limit is 1400 F.

Now, cross check your CHT.  There are limits there.  LYCOMING says max of 450 F.  I use 400 F as my max.  REMEMBER!  Temperature gauges are a LAGING instrument. By the time you SEE your temp, it is beyond that point.

Barry 



On Sunday, November 5, 2017, Paul Collins <collins04(at)cableone.net (collins04(at)cableone.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

To the â€œEngine-Smartâ€ and experienced group,

                I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.  

                So, how would this experienced group set the fuel-flow?  What limits/measurements would you use??Run by EGT?  If so, what limits??
Run by CHT? If so, what limits??
Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??
Run by congressional budget?  If so, what limits??

 

Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to start thinking about these things â€“ and shovel snow.

 

Thanks for your consideration,

Paul Collins

N8ZV

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server

Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

To: LycomingEngines-List Digest List

Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17



 

*

 

 =========================

   Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive

 =========================

 

Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the 

two Web Links listed below.  The .html file includes the Digest formatted 

in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes 

and Message Navigation.  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version 

of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor 

such as Notepad or with a web browser. 

 

HTML Version:

 

    http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

 

Text Version:

 

    http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

 

 

 =======================

   EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive

 =======================

 

 

           ----------------------------------------------------------

                           LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive

                                      ---

                     Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 0

           ----------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Today's Message Index:

----------------------

 

 

 

 

 





 

 

 

 

 



	


-- 

Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.

- The Matronics LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List

cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:07 pm Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

Paul, until you know a lot more I suggest you don't follow any advice you find online and for now follow the procedure in your engine manual (pasted below)



IO-360 Operator's Manual

Section 3

7.

c. Fuel Mixture Leaning Procedure.Â 

Improper fuel/air mixture during flight is responsible for engine problems, particularly during takeoff and climb power settings. The procedures described in this manual provide proper fuel/air mixture when leaning Lycoming engines; they have proven to be both economical and practical by eliminating excessive fuel consumption and reducing damaged parts replacement. It is therefore recommended that operators of all Lycoming aircraft engines utilize the instructions in this publication any time the fuel/air mixture is adjusted during flight.Â 

Manual leaning may be monitored by exhaust gas temperature indication, fuel flow indication, and by observation of engine speed and/or airspeed. However, whatever instruments are used in monitoring the mixture, the following general rules must be observed by the operator of Lycoming aircraft engines.



Never exceed the maximum red line cylinder head temperature limit.Â 

For maximum service life, cylinder head temperatures should be maintained below 435Â°F (224Â°C) during high performance cruise operation and below 400Â°F (205Â°C) for economy cruise powers.Â 

Do not manually lean engines equipped with automatically controlled fuel system.Â 

On engines with manual mixture control, maintain mixture control in â€œFull Richâ€ position for rated takeoff, climb, and maximum cruise powers (above approximately 75%). However, during take-off from high elevation airport or during climb, roughness or loss of power may result from over-richness. In such a case adjust mixture control only enough to obtain smooth operation â€“ not for economy. Observe instruments for temperature rise. Rough operation due to over-rich fuel/air mixture is most likely to be encountered in carbureted engines at altitude above 5,000 feet.Â 



Always return the mixture to full rich before increasing power settings.Â 

Operate the engine at maximum power mixture for performance cruise powers and at best economy mixture for economy cruise power; unless otherwise specified in the airplane ownerâ€™s manual.Â 

During letdown flight operations it may be necessary to manually lean uncompensated carbureted or fuel injected engines to obtain smooth operation.Â 



1. LEANING TO EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE GAGE.Â 

Â  Â  Â a. Normally aspirated engines with fuel injectors or uncompensated carburetors.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (1) Maximum Power Cruise (approximately 75% power) â€“ Never lean beyond 150Â°F on rich side of peak EGT unless aircraft operatorâ€™s manual shows otherwise. Monitor cylinder head temperatures.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (2) Best Economy Cruise (approximately 75% power and below) â€“ Operate at peak EGT.Â 



2. LEANING TO FLOWMETER.Â 

Â  Â  Â Lean to applicable fuel-flow tables or lean to indicator marked for correct fuel flow for each power setting.Â 

3. LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power or less, without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)Â 

Â  Â  Â a. Carbureted Engines.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (1) Slowly move mixture control from â€œFull Richâ€ position toward lean position.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (2) Continue leaning until engine roughness is noted.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.Â 

Â  Â  Â b. Fuel Injected Engines.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (1) Slowly move mixture control from â€œFull Richâ€ position toward lean position.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted (loss of power may or may not be accompanied by roughness.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.

If you want to learn more about the how and why, I would suggest starting here:

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/2274677932001/webinar--leaning-basics?autoStart=true&q=leaning





On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 6:30 AM, Paul Collins <collins04(at)cableone.net (collins04(at)cableone.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

To the â€œEngine-Smartâ€ and experienced group,

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.Â  

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  So, how would this experienced group set the fuel-flow?Â  What limits/measurements would you use??Run by EGT?Â  If so, what limits??
Run by CHT? If so, what limits??
Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??
Run by congressional budget?Â  If so, what limits??

Â 

Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to start thinking about these things â€“ and shovel snow.

Â 

Thanks for your consideration,

Paul Collins

N8ZV

Â 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Â 

From: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

To: LycomingEngines-List Digest List (lycomingengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com)

Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17



Â 

*

Â 

 =========================

Â Â  Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive

 =========================

Â 

Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the 

two Web Links listed below.Â  The .html file includes the Digest formatted 

in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes 

and Message Navigation.Â  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version 

of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor 

such as Notepad or with a web browser. 

Â 

HTML Version:

Â 

Â Â Â  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

Â 

Text Version:

Â 

Â Â Â  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

Â 

Â 

 =======================

Â Â  EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive

 =======================

Â 

 

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ----------------------------------------------------------

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ---

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 0

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ----------------------------------------------------------

 

Â 

Today's Message Index:

----------------------

 

Â 

Â 

Â 

Â 





 

Â 

Â 

Â 

Â

- The Matronics LycomingEngines-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?LycomingEngines-List

cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 4:14 pm Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

I would also look at Lycoming's more recent guidance:



https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1497a



On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Paul, until you know a lot more I suggest you don't follow any advice you find online and for now follow the procedure in your engine manual (pasted below)



IO-360 Operator's Manual

Section 3

7.

c. Fuel Mixture Leaning Procedure.Â 

Improper fuel/air mixture during flight is responsible for engine problems, particularly during takeoff and climb power settings. The procedures described in this manual provide proper fuel/air mixture when leaning Lycoming engines; they have proven to be both economical and practical by eliminating excessive fuel consumption and reducing damaged parts replacement. It is therefore recommended that operators of all Lycoming aircraft engines utilize the instructions in this publication any time the fuel/air mixture is adjusted during flight.Â 

Manual leaning may be monitored by exhaust gas temperature indication, fuel flow indication, and by observation of engine speed and/or airspeed. However, whatever instruments are used in monitoring the mixture, the following general rules must be observed by the operator of Lycoming aircraft engines.



Never exceed the maximum red line cylinder head temperature limit.Â 

For maximum service life, cylinder head temperatures should be maintained below 435Â°F (224Â°C) during high performance cruise operation and below 400Â°F (205Â°C) for economy cruise powers.Â 

Do not manually lean engines equipped with automatically controlled fuel system.Â 

On engines with manual mixture control, maintain mixture control in â€œFull Richâ€ position for rated takeoff, climb, and maximum cruise powers (above approximately 75%). However, during take-off from high elevation airport or during climb, roughness or loss of power may result from over-richness. In such a case adjust mixture control only enough to obtain smooth operation â€“ not for economy. Observe instruments for temperature rise. Rough operation due to over-rich fuel/air mixture is most likely to be encountered in carbureted engines at altitude above 5,000 feet.Â 



Always return the mixture to full rich before increasing power settings.Â 

Operate the engine at maximum power mixture for performance cruise powers and at best economy mixture for economy cruise power; unless otherwise specified in the airplane ownerâ€™s manual.Â 

During letdown flight operations it may be necessary to manually lean uncompensated carbureted or fuel injected engines to obtain smooth operation.Â 



1. LEANING TO EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE GAGE.Â 

Â  Â  Â a. Normally aspirated engines with fuel injectors or uncompensated carburetors.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (1) Maximum Power Cruise (approximately 75% power) â€“ Never lean beyond 150Â°F on rich side of peak EGT unless aircraft operatorâ€™s manual shows otherwise. Monitor cylinder head temperatures.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (2) Best Economy Cruise (approximately 75% power and below) â€“ Operate at peak EGT.Â 



2. LEANING TO FLOWMETER.Â 

Â  Â  Â Lean to applicable fuel-flow tables or lean to indicator marked for correct fuel flow for each power setting.Â 

3. LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power or less, without flowmeter or EGT gauge.)Â 

Â  Â  Â a. Carbureted Engines.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (1) Slowly move mixture control from â€œFull Richâ€ position toward lean position.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (2) Continue leaning until engine roughness is noted.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.Â 

Â  Â  Â b. Fuel Injected Engines.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (1) Slowly move mixture control from â€œFull Richâ€ position toward lean position.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted (loss of power may or may not be accompanied by roughness.Â 

Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.

If you want to learn more about the how and why, I would suggest starting here:

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/2274677932001/webinar--leaning-basics?autoStart=true&q=leaning





On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 6:30 AM, Paul Collins <collins04(at)cableone.net (collins04(at)cableone.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

To the â€œEngine-Smartâ€ and experienced group,

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.Â  

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  So, how would this experienced group set the fuel-flow?Â  What limits/measurements would you use??Run by EGT?Â  If so, what limits??
Run by CHT? If so, what limits??
Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??
Run by congressional budget?Â  If so, what limits??

Â 

Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to start thinking about these things â€“ and shovel snow.

Â 

Thanks for your consideration,

Paul Collins

N8ZV

Â 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Â 

From: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

To: LycomingEngines-List Digest List (lycomingengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com)

Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17



Â 

*

Â 

 =========================

Â Â  Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive

 =========================

Â 

Today's complete LycomingEngines-List Digest can also be found in either of the 

two Web Links listed below.Â  The .html file includes the Digest formatted 

in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes 

and Message Navigation.Â  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version 

of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor 

such as Notepad or with a web browser. 

Â 

HTML Version:

Â 

Â Â Â  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

Â 

Text Version:

Â 

Â Â Â  http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=txt&Chapter=2017-11-04&Archive=LycomingEngines

Â 

Â 

 =======================

Â Â  EMail Version of Today's List Digest Archive

 =======================

Â 

 

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â ----------------------------------------------------------

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  LycomingEngines-List Digest Archive

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ---

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Total Messages Posted Sat 11/04/17: 0

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  ----------------------------------------------------------

 

Â 

Today's Message Index:

----------------------

 

Â 

Â 

Â 

Â 





 

Â 

Â 

Â 

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rayeaker(at)gmail.com
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Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 6:12 pm Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

Youâ€™d be better off reading John Deakinâ€™s pelican Perch  articles. Many old POH docs and some eng MFG docs are misleading. 



On Nov 5, 2017, at 7:12 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

I would also look at Lycoming's more recent guidance:



https://www.lycoming.com/content/service-instruction-no-1497a



On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Paul, until you know a lot more I suggest you don't follow any advice you find online and for now follow the procedure in your engine manual (pasted below)



IO-360 Operator's Manual

Section 3

7.

c. Fuel Mixture Leaning Procedure. 

Improper fuel/air mixture during flight is responsible for engine problems, particularly during takeoff and climb power settings. The procedures described in this manual provide proper fuel/air mixture when leaning Lycoming engines; they have proven to be both economical and practical by eliminating excessive fuel consumption and reducing damaged parts replacement. It is therefore recommended that operators of all Lycoming aircraft engines utilize the instructions in this publication any time the fuel/air mixture is adjusted during flight. 

Manual leaning may be monitored by exhaust gas temperature indication, fuel flow indication, and by observation of engine speed and/or airspeed. However, whatever instruments are used in monitoring the mixture, the following general rules must be observed by the operator of Lycoming aircraft engines.



Never exceed the maximum red line cylinder head temperature limit. 

For maximum service life, cylinder head temperatures should be maintained below 435Â°F (224Â°C) during high performance cruise operation and below 400Â°F (205Â°C) for economy cruise powers. 

Do not manually lean engines equipped with automatically controlled fuel system. 

On engines with manual mixture control, maintain mixture control in â€œFull Richâ€ position for rated takeoff, climb, and maximum cruise powers (above approximately 75%). However, during take-off from high elevation airport or during climb, roughness or loss of power may result from over-richness. In such a case adjust mixture control only enough to obtain smooth operation â€“ not for economy. Observe instruments for temperature rise. Rough operation due to over-rich fuel/air mixture is most likely to be encountered in carbureted engines at altitude above 5,000 feet. 



Always return the mixture to full rich before increasing power settings. 

Operate the engine at maximum power mixture for performance cruise powers and at best economy mixture for economy cruise power; unless otherwise specified in the airplane ownerâ€™s manual. 

During letdown flight operations it may be necessary to manually lean uncompensated carbureted or fuel injected engines to obtain smooth operation. 



1. LEANING TO EXHAUST GAS TEMPERATURE GAGE. 

     a. Normally aspirated engines with fuel injectors or uncompensated carburetors. 

          (1) Maximum Power Cruise (approximately 75% power) â€“ Never lean beyond 150Â°F on rich side of peak EGT unless aircraft operatorâ€™s manual shows otherwise. Monitor cylinder head temperatures. 

          (2) Best Economy Cruise (approximately 75% power and below) â€“ Operate at peak EGT. 



2. LEANING TO FLOWMETER. 

     Lean to applicable fuel-flow tables or lean to indicator marked for correct fuel flow for each power setting. 

3. LEANING WITH MANUAL MIXTURE CONTROL. (Economy cruise, 75% power or less, without flowmeter or EGT gauge.) 

     a. Carbureted Engines. 

          (1) Slowly move mixture control from â€œFull Richâ€ position toward lean position. 

          (2) Continue leaning until engine roughness is noted. 

          (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained. 

     b. Fuel Injected Engines. 

          (1) Slowly move mixture control from â€œFull Richâ€ position toward lean position. 

          (2) Continue leaning until slight loss of power is noted (loss of power may or may not be accompanied by roughness. 

          (3) Enrich until engine runs smoothly and power is regained.

If you want to learn more about the how and why, I would suggest starting here:

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/2274677932001/webinar--leaning-basics?autoStart=true&q=leaning





On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 6:30 AM, Paul Collins <collins04(at)cableone.net (collins04(at)cableone.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

To the â€œEngine-Smartâ€ and experienced group,

                I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.  

                So, how would this experienced group set the fuel-flow?  What limits/measurements would you use??Run by EGT?  If so, what limits??
Run by CHT? If so, what limits??
Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??
Run by congressional budget?  If so, what limits??

 

Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to start thinking about these things â€“ and shovel snow.

 

Thanks for your consideration,

Paul Collins

N8ZV

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 

From: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server (lycomingengines-list(at)matronics.com)

Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

To: LycomingEngines-List Digest List (lycomingengines-list-digest(at)matronics.com)

Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17



 

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BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:24 am Post subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17

Ray:

What contradictions?Â  I was not contradictingÂ anything till now.

Did you read!Â  The second sentence reads: "Now, to keep things simple,...".Â  What is your point?Â  We all know that there is a varianceÂ in temperature reading due to probe, probe placement and between gauge manufactures.Â  We are NOT talking about differences between planes and equipment.Â Â 

You MUST be a Gauge Watcher with your head down all the time.Â  Very few training aircraft have EGT/CHT or Fuel Flow.Â  Leaning was taught by FEEL!Â  THEN!Â  If you have a engine monitoringÂ system you cross check against that.Â  NOT the other way around.Â Â 

And - How do you know - "but once you know how your engine feels" if you don't feel things like vibration?Â  Engines were flown decades before engine monitoring equipment was installed.Â  As I said: I feel the vibration in my feet first. I feelÂ  it there before it gets to the stick or the gauges.Â  AND, since many planes are going the way of glass panels, you are loosing the instrumentÂ vibration as a monitoring point, also many panels are vibration dampenedÂ so it takes more vibration before it shows up.

Barry

"If you wash your hands before going to the bathroom you may have theÂ making of a Crew Chief."



On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Ray Eaker <rayeaker(at)gmail.com (rayeaker(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Lots of contradictions there, Barry.Â 

EGT temps are relative. The value itself (eg 1400) is mostly meaningless but can be meaningful for troubleshooting a problem. The value relative to PEAK is what matters (and it matters) for lean operations. The feel of your feet, not so much, but once you know how your engine feels using the engine monitor values, it might help.Â 



On Nov 5, 2017, at 2:06 PM, FLYaDIVE <flyadive(at)gmail.com (flyadive(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Hi Paul,



If you have FUEL INJECTION, you have an IO-360, not an O-360.

Now, to keep things simple, donâ€™t even look at the EGT.Â  Use your ears and the vibrations you feel.Â  My feet are closest to the engine so I feel things through my toes.Â  Lean till the engine runs rough and then give a slight twist to rich. Â  THEN! If you want to cross check against EGT go ahead.Â  There are no max limits to EGT, NONE in any manuals, but my personal limit is 1400 F.

Now, cross check your CHT.Â  There are limits there.Â  LYCOMING says max of 450 F.Â  I use 400 F as my max.Â  REMEMBER!Â  Temperature gauges are a LAGING instrument. By the time you SEE your temp, it is beyond that point.

BarryÂ 



On Sunday, November 5, 2017, Paul Collins <collins04(at)cableone.net (collins04(at)cableone.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

To the â€œEngine-Smartâ€ and experienced group,

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  I have an 0-360 - fuel injection, magneto and Lightspeed electronic ignition, all four cylinders monitored by EGT and CHT, compression boosted to 10.2 by Ly-Con.Â  

Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  So, how would this experienced group set the fuel-flow?Â  What limits/measurements would you use??Run by EGT?Â  If so, what limits??
Run by CHT? If so, what limits??
Run by fuel flow vs % power setting? If so, what limits??
Run by congressional budget?Â  If so, what limits??

Â 

Weather is changing out here is Idaho, so it is a good time to start thinking about these things â€“ and shovel snow.

Â 

Thanks for your consideration,

Paul Collins

N8ZV

Â 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

Â 

From: LycomingEngines-List Digest Server

Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2017 1:13 AM

To: LycomingEngines-List Digest List

Subject: LycomingEngines-List Digest: 0 Msgs - 11/04/17



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two Web Links listed below.Â  The .html file includes the Digest formatted 

in HTML for viewing with a web browser and features Hyperlinked Indexes 

and Message Navigation.Â  The .txt file includes the plain ASCII version 

of the LycomingEngines-List Digest and can be viewed with a generic text editor 

such as Notepad or with a web browser. 

Â 

HTML Version:

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-- 

Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.

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