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mprather(at)spro.net
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 Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 11:29 am Post subject: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic) |
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Alright! So, everybody, let's go to AZ to buy our Mogas.. Just kidding
(sort of). 
There are real concerns about running from a fuel supply which has varying
composition. If you buy fuel in January, but don't use it until June, is
it safe to use in June (once the weather has gotten hot)? If you buy fuel
in Seattle (I don't know how RVP is regulated there, but assume it might
be allowed to have higher values), can you safely use it to fly to
Flagstaff?
Don't get me wrong.. I run Mogas in my 182 whenever it's convenient and
seems prudent. It saves between $10 and $25 per hour depending where you
buy. But, I do consider some of these issues when I decide what to burn..
Regards,
Matt-
[quote]
<kellym(at)aviating.com>
I don't know about other locations, but the Mogas in Phoenix and
probably most of Arizona in the summer is RVP 7.0 or lower, which
equals the vapor pressure of 100LL.
Quoting "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>:
>
> (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
>
> In the meantime I'll just run my VL proof fuel delivery system. Of
> course what I am guilty of is forgetting that 90% of the GA fleet is
> certified and we can't just go swapping stuff out like us experimantal
> drivers can.
>
> I knew there was a reason I don't fly a Cessna...
>
> Frank
>
> --
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:17 pm Post subject: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic) |
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Indeed yes are...but do you measure the RVP before you use it?...Even if
the RVP is a little high you can ajust your flying to suit.
As a bit of an aside I probably wouldn't store mogas for 6 months before
using it.
More of a question is wat if ethanol appears in the mix...i have an
invite to phone Todd at Peterson for the low down on why not to use
Ethanol...I'm not convinced on that one...at least not yet.
More to come
Frank
--
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ainut(at)hiwaay.net
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 1:39 pm Post subject: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic) |
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Doesn't mogas purchased at a service station have a much shorter storage
life too?
David M.
Matt Prather wrote:
| Quote: |
Alright! So, everybody, let's go to AZ to buy our Mogas.. Just kidding
(sort of).
There are real concerns about running from a fuel supply which has varying
composition. If you buy fuel in January, but don't use it until June, is
it safe to use in June (once the weather has gotten hot)? If you buy fuel
in Seattle (I don't know how RVP is regulated there, but assume it might
be allowed to have higher values), can you safely use it to fly to
Flagstaff?
Don't get me wrong.. I run Mogas in my 182 whenever it's convenient and
seems prudent. It saves between $10 and $25 per hour depending where you
buy. But, I do consider some of these issues when I decide what to burn..
Regards,
Matt-
>--
>
|
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mprather(at)spro.net
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| Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:46 pm Post subject: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic) |
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Right... Yes. Another valid concern. I suspect that old mogas has lower
octane - the lighter aromatics used to raise octane evaporate sooner than
the base fuel, leaving a lower octane blend.
Regards,
Matt-
| Quote: |
Doesn't mogas purchased at a service station have a much shorter storage
life too?
David M.
Matt Prather wrote:
>
> <mprather(at)spro.net>
>
>Alright! So, everybody, let's go to AZ to buy our Mogas.. Just kidding
>(sort of).
>
>There are real concerns about running from a fuel supply which has
> varying
>composition. If you buy fuel in January, but don't use it until June,
> is
>it safe to use in June (once the weather has gotten hot)? If you buy
> fuel
>in Seattle (I don't know how RVP is regulated there, but assume it might
>be allowed to have higher values), can you safely use it to fly to
>Flagstaff?
>
>Don't get me wrong.. I run Mogas in my 182 whenever it's convenient and
>seems prudent. It saves between $10 and $25 per hour depending where you
>buy. But, I do consider some of these issues when I decide what to
> burn..
>Regards,
>
>Matt-
>
>
>>--
>>
>
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Jerry Cochran
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 111
Location: Wilsonville, OR
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic) |
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Excellent article on Ethanol in current Consumer Reports. A couple things for sure are that Ethanol has 30% less BTU's than Gasoline 125k btu/gal vs. 84.4), thereby translating to 32% less mileage per gal. Ethanol is cleaner, which I guess is why it is mandated in some parts. I track my car gas mileage very closely and get 8% less mpg when using a mix. The math doesn't come out quite right with the btu's, but it is a fact, at least for my car. It is alleged that Ethanol rots some seals, gaskets. My 1996 Honda motorcycle specifically disallows it's use. There is no way I'll ever use a mix of gas/ethanol in my aircraft. Superior also bans Ethanol btw, although encourages use of premium mogas for their XP360's...
FWIW, .02, etc.
Jerry Cochran
| Quote: | From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Indeed yes are...but do you measure the RVP before you use it?...Even if
the RVP is a little high you can ajust your flying to suit.
As a bit of an aside I probably wouldn't store mogas for 6 months before
using it.
More of a question is wat if ethanol appears in the mix...i have an
invite to phone Todd at Peterson for the low down on why not to use
Ethanol...I'm not convinced on that one...at least not yet.
More to come |
[quote][b]
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:52 pm Post subject: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic) |
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When i spoke to Superior they stated Vapour lock as the issue with ethanol mix...But when i asked if they really meant vapour lock or simply boiling of fuel in the injector lines ..Which is not vapour lock I did not get an answer. Secondly with my Airflow Performance system it can run on 100% ethanol if you so desire.
I have high regard for Superior, don't get me wrong but there are MANY OWTs out there that one is forced to question. ECI states lead being a lubricant for valve seats as Gospel for example...I don't buy it because, 1 it sounds ridiculous and 2 there is more and more evidence to the contrary. Now in order to preserve the warranty (if there really is one) ECI demand that you use 100LL duting break in...OK for sure i will only start feeding in mogas after 25 hours or so...Not worth the risk.
Soo..if you have a properly designed fuel system (my pumps are in the wingroots) I'm having a hard time understanding the objection to ethanol mixes...Apart from the fact we're getting short changed (lower grade fuel)to support our totally excessive farm production of course...
Now it maybe the injector line boiling is so bad it s difficult to get the engine to run smooth...Definatly a possibility.
I will phone Todd Peterson next week who has offered to fill me in (metaphorically speaking) on why ehtanol in mogas is a really bad thing....Not saying that he will be incorrect, just I don't understand why not at the moment.
Frank
Another 5 hours and i start filling gas cans...Non ethanol...for now..
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 2:05 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic)
Excellent article on Ethanol in current Consumer Reports. A couple things for sure are that Ethanol has 30% less BTU's than Gasoline 125k btu/gal vs. 84.4), thereby translating to 32% less mileage per gal. Ethanol is cleaner, which I guess is why it is mandated in some parts. I track my car gas mileage very closely and get 8% less mpg when using a mix. The math doesn't come out quite right with the btu's, but it is a fact, at least for my car. It is alleged that Ethanol rots some seals, gaskets. My 1996 Honda motorcycle specifically disallows it's use. There is no way I'll ever use a mix of gas/ethanol in my aircraft. Superior also bans Ethanol btw, although encourages use of premium mogas for their XP360's...
FWIW, .02, etc.
Jerry Cochran
| Quote: | From: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Hinde, Frank George (Corvallis)" <frank.hinde(at)hp.com>
Indeed yes are...but do you measure the RVP before you use it?...Even if
the RVP is a little high you can ajust your flying to suit.
As a bit of an aside I probably wouldn't store mogas for 6 months before
using it.
More of a question is wat if ethanol appears in the mix...i have an
invite to phone Todd at Peterson for the low down on why not to use
Ethanol...I'm not convinced on that one...at least not yet.
More to come |
[quote]
matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
[b]
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sales(at)6440autoparts.co
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:49 pm Post subject: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic) |
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Frank did you go to an AFS seminar ? If so was it worth it ? If not where did you get the info that their system will run 100% ethanol ? I have'nt found much real info on their website.
Randy
[quote] ---
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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 1:09 pm Post subject: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic) |
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Don Rivera told me directly by email.
Frank
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 6440 Auto Parts
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:46 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Mogas versus 100LL (Mostly Off Topic)
Frank did you go to an AFS seminar ? If so was it worth it ? If not where did you get the info that their system will run 100% ethanol ? I have'nt found much real info on their website.
Randy
[quote] ---
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