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FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.

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N914VA(at)starband.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 4:21 pm Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



While this is apparently an EU issue at this time, it certainly will not be

long before we on the left side of the puddle will find it to be an issue

for us. The liberal media and politicians can't wait for the day when they

know where we are, what we are doing and when we are doing it, all in the

name of the "public good". These are indeed two words in the English

language to be feared. And after all, the aforementioned individuals do know

what is "good for us" better than we. And the great benefit to us as a

"world society" will be the ability to tax "fairly" all that we say and do.

Once we stamp out the concept of the "individual" and "individual

responsibility", the entire global society will finally become "Camelot". In

the meantime, I for one will have my guard up and try to thwart these lofty

aspirations at every turn. Yes, I, ME, MYSELF, THE ONE & ONLY. You can join,

but you must be YOU, YOURSELF, YOUR ONE & ONLY.

BEBERRY(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:16 am Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.

europaflyer_3(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 4:14 am Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



My guess with Galileo is that providers of hardware will have to pay a fee

per device to the signal provider. Quite how that is to be done is not known

to me - but something similar to what BSkyB do would seem sensible.

It does have two key advantages over both GPS and the Russian system:

1) It is much more accurate (cm level)

2) It can't be turned off by the US government (unless they shoot down the

satellites, of course ). This means it can be used for safety-critical

uses like aircraft landing systems and automated train operation.

Personally, I'm not too hung up on what it'll be used for. There are a host

of options:

1) Tracking known terrorists and criminals through the chips in their mobile

phones

2) Systems that detect and fine middle-lane-hogs

3) Systems that detect and fine mothers who park on the double-yellow-lines

on blind corners outside schools

4) Systems that detect fly-tippers and enable them to be brought to book

5) Road-pricing systems that mean taxation is transferred from fuel duties

into road-use fees - meaning that those who a) try to avoid times of

congestion on the roads, b) live in the country and have no alternative, or

c) fly aeroplanes that run on mogas are rewarded

All in all, I agree with Patrick - most of what has been written or said is

just scare stories. My objections to the system will come when I find the

government is concentrating on me, the law-abiding citizen, instead of the

criminals. That is an altogether different matter, and one that is already a

problem.

Regards,

Jeremy

Jeremy Davey

Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA

Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative

PFA EC Member

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is

possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."

Tail done

Standard XS wings with mods underway

CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)

1430 build hours to date, build currently stalled due to house moves and

lack of workshop

Intended fit:

Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop

Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms

Trevpond(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:19 am Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



Do you suppose they are going to use the money they clawed back from our Mr

Blair, i.e. our rebate to pay for this as well as propping up the rest of the

European Economies?

DuaneFamly(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 11:51 am Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



In a message dated 1/2/2006 4:17:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,

europaflyer 3(at)msn.com writes:

1) Tracking known terrorists and criminals through the chips in their mobile

phones

But then there are the "other" entities that use this same technology to

watch normal people.

2) Systems that detect and fine middle-lane-hogs

That's why we still have guns!

3) Systems that detect and fine mothers who park on the double-yellow-lines

on blind corners outside schools

That's what we use rental cars with full insurance for.

4) Systems that detect fly-tippers and enable them to be brought to book

HUH? In English please.

5) Road-pricing systems that mean taxation is transferred from fuel duties

into road-use fees - meaning that those who a) try to avoid times of

congestion on the roads, b) live in the country and have no alternative, or

c) fly aeroplanes that run on mogas are rewarded

Bet you they don't remove the fuel taxes!

All in all, I agree with Patrick - most of what has been written or said is

just scare stories. My objections to the system will come when I find the

government is concentrating on me, the law-abiding citizen, instead of the

criminals. That is an altogether different matter, and one that is already a

problem.

By that time, it's too late. If the technology is there, it WILL be used,

whether you know it or not. Like a very wise person once said....."When you give

up freedom for safety, you will wind up with neither".

Mike Duane

Redding, California

Older cell phone, two guns, and no car tracking system.

Do Not Archive

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:10 pm Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



Well said Mike.

I'm much similar but with 3 x 12 bores and a .22 rifle.

"Fly tipping" is rogue tipping of waste mostly in rural areas to escape

waste disposal taxes invariably originated by the Urban Authorities who

don't give a shit for us that are proud of the countryside, they prefer

to feed the foxes too!

I know there are people claiming "scaremongering" but "fast forward"

about 10 years and I'll say I told you so!

10 years ago it would have been a complete "No No" to say we'd be

watched by CCTV wherever we are. Vehicle monitoring cameras are in

operation now and most city centres have cameras installed.

Regards

Bob Harrison.

Do not archive.

europaflyer_3(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 5:50 pm Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



"4) Systems that detect fly-tippers and enable them to be brought to book

HUH? In English please."

That WAS in English. I think you meant to ask: "In AMERICAN, please" 

My guess at the nearest American equivalent is: "illegal dumpers". Does that

help?

Regards,

Jeremy

PS You forgot that we don't have guns over here

PPS I think we just uncovered something that I've noticed is one of the few

significant difference in attitudes between the US and the UK: in the US few

seriously trust their government; in the UK few seriously distrust theirs. I

believe that difference is due to our respective national histories, and

that both positions are perfectly understandable in that context.

Jeremy Davey

Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA

Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative

PFA EC Member

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is

possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."

Tail done

Standard XS wings with mods underway

CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)

1430 build hours to date, build currently stalled due to house moves and

lack of workshop

Intended fit:

Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop

Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms

europaflyer_3(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:43 pm Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



Bob,

Given a choice between having vehicle monitoring cameras, which check that

everyone out there has a car that is not just taxed, but is tested to prove

it's safe, and is insured in case it drives into yours, and having no such

cameras and taking my chances with the low-lives that don't care about my

safety or paying for the damage they do to my vehicle, I'll take the

cameras, thanks.

Burglars, on the other hand, are welcome to an encounter with my numerous

axes, never mind my chainsaw. That's if they get past the dog with a severe

dislike of strangers.

Regards,

Jeremy

Jeremy Davey

Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA

Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative

PFA EC Member

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is

possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."

Tail done

Standard XS wings with mods underway

CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)

1430 build hours to date, build currently stalled due to house moves and

lack of workshop

Intended fit:

Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop

Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms

VE3LVO(at)rac.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



Jeremy

In the U.S.A., the pepole hate the government.

In Canada, the government hates the people.

Ferg

That too is a result of local history........ Cheers

hurstkr(at)growzone.com.a
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:58 pm Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



 	  Quote: 	
		   In the U.S.A., the pepole hate the government.

In Canada, the government hates the people.

	


That's fair enough Ferg. In Oz, we hate the Government and the

Government hates us. There's a name for this sort of thing, I think

it's called democracy !!

Happy New Year to you mate and may all your troubles (with engine

mounting etc) fade away.

Cheers

Kingsley

Doing a bit of filling and sanding for a change at the moment.

Do not archive

BEBERRY(at)AOL.COM
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:52 am Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.

europaflyer_3(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



Patrick,

We're probably abusing the list now, as this is rather non-Europa, but at

least there is some aviation-related stuff.

You're correct on the current Government. But I think it's wrong to tar all

politicians with that brush. Some I know are decent, hard-working, committed

people. I see no reason to expect the next Government to continue the

descent into self-serving that this current one began.

As for restricting our aviation freedoms - the PFA are working hard on that,

and I personally founded the Campaigning Aviators Network. I note that you

haven't volunteered to join it, though. Perhaps you'd like to do so and join

me and the other volunteers in spending some of our free time campaigning

for these freedoms?

Regards,

Jeremy

Jeremy Davey

Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA

Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative

PFA EC Member

"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is

possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."

Tail done

Standard XS wings with mods underway

CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)

1430 build hours to date, build currently stalled due to house moves and

lack of workshop

Intended fit:

Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop

Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms

BEBERRY(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.

ptag.dev(at)tiscali.co.uk
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: FW: EU Referendum - Electronic tagging.



Hi! Patrick,

I didn't really post the original message for any reason other than I

can see through the sham as being another stealth tax by the back door

onto already the most expensive hobby of General Aviation, just wait and

see.

However IMHO You are right on the button. The lies and deceit have

emanated from governments of all political persuasions particularly

about the European Soviet Project since 1972 and earlier. The current

naivety and apathy about politics by the population at large is playing

right into their hands. I for one will never bow to their bent

bureaucracy, political correctness, so called "public consultation" in

lieu of true democracy.

Anyone who fails to see this really is already overwhelmed by the very

deceit about which I claim and has their heads stuffed right up...(you

know where)...if they think their consultation will make any difference.

The Galileo project will provide the vehicle for aggressive government

controls in all our daily lives anyway, but those who fly for a hobby

will ultimately suffer a double "whammy" you mark my words.

There may be as much public consultation as you like but they don't take

the slightest heed just soldier on further armed by their claim to have

"consulted the public" ultimately giving no ground or compromise in all

"negotiations".

After all they would never have been able to make such uses of a

system controlled by another super power.

The only final chance of stopping the bureaucrats will be when they meet

civil disobedience big time like Maggie Thatcher found out over Poll

Tax.

Bob Harrison.

Do not archive....

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