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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: cold weather starting |
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And that is what I'm doing, Bob, flying it and then putting it away,
then placing the heater. Whenever I get to the hangar, the entire
engine is warm...as a matter of fact, when I got there today, inside
the hangar, EIS readings were: Oil temp=117°; Head temp=71°;
Ambient 8°, all degrees fahrenheit.
My heater gets inserted between the oil cooler and the engine's oil
pan, and radiates heat out in all directions, but pretty much trapped
by the oil cooler and the pan, spreading out by convection I believe
it would be. Or would that be radiating out from the heater, then
changing to convection as it traveled to the rest of the engine? (I
must've skipped that day in engineering school and went to
photography class instead)
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
On Dec 12, 2008, at 3:18 PM, bob noffs wrote:
Quote: | lynn,
a little more research on the condensation business seems to point
to an engine that was run for only a short time and didnt get to
operating temps before it was shut down. this leaves water in the
engine as a product of combustion that didnt get a chance to be
boiled off. now comes the constant preheat that puts the moisture
that was in the oil in vapor form and then it condenses on the
colder parts of the engine. i dont know if all this is true but
keeping a preheat on an engine that was put away hot should not be
a problem.
bob noffs
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Tom Jones

Joined: 12 Mar 2006 Posts: 752 Location: Ellensburg, WA
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: Cold weather starting |
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Quote: | My heater gets inserted between the oil cooler and the engine's oil
pan, and radiates heat out in all directions, but pretty much trapped
by the oil cooler and the pan, spreading out by convection I believe
it would be. Or would that be radiating out from the heater, then
changing to convection as it traveled to the rest of the engine? (I
must've skipped that day in engineering school and went to
photography class instead) |
Lynn, if I remember my primary fire fighter training from 41 years ago there's three types of heat transfer:
radiation = through air to another object at the speed of light
convection = heated air (or liquid) moving to another object
conduction = heat moving from one molecule to another right next to it
There's probably some of all three going on under your cowl. The convection mostly directly above the heater as the hot air rises. do not archive
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_________________ Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:02 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting |
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Thanks, Tom...I had forgotten all about conduction...DUH! So it
radiates out from the heater, heating the air which "convects" to the
oil pan surfaces, then by conduction, continues to heat the whole
engine. Cool.....oops!
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 12, 2008, at 7:25 PM, Tom Jones wrote:
Quote: |
> My heater gets inserted between the oil cooler and the engine's oil
> pan, and radiates heat out in all directions, but pretty much trapped
> by the oil cooler and the pan, spreading out by convection I believe
> it would be. Or would that be radiating out from the heater, then
> changing to convection as it traveled to the rest of the engine? (I
> must've skipped that day in engineering school and went to
> photography class instead)
Lynn, if I remember my primary fire fighter training from 41 years
ago there's three types of heat transfer:
radiation = through still air to an object
convection = heated air moving to another object
conduction = through a solid or liquid
There's probably some of all three going on under your cowl. The
convection mostly directly above the heater. do not archive
--------
Tom Jones
Classic IV
503 Rotax, 72 inch Two blade Warp
Ellensburg, WA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 19142#219142
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Lynn Matteson
Joined: 10 Jan 2006 Posts: 2778 Location: Grass Lake, Michigan
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting |
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I found and ordered a copy of "Bent Props and Blow Pots" from
Amazon.com today...there are plenty of like new and used books listed
for less than $20, in hardback and soft, so yes, they're out there.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Patrick Best wrote:
Quote: |
<Patrick.Best(at)telus.com>
I would like to recommend using a Blow-Pot, like the northern bush-
pilot pioneers!
For those of you who don't know what that is....
When a pilot was done flying for the day during the winter in
northern Canada, the "flight engineer's" responsibility was to
drain the oil from the engine into a large metal bucket and bring
it indoors over night. The next morning, in temperatures as low as
-60 F (yes, that's a real temp), the engineer would shroud the
engine, light the kersone blow-pot stove and heat the oil in the
buckets for a couple of hours. Then it would be poured back into
the engine for the flight.
I read it in this FASCINATING book. I would completely recommend
it. It's about 1930's era Junkers with skis. Crashes and flying
without reliable maps. Good pictures too.
The site says it's out of print, but there's probably many copies
around still.
http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/BentPropsBlowPots
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_________________ Lynn
Kitfox IV-Jabiru 2200
N369LM |
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Sbennett3(at)aol.com Guest
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Posted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting |
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Anyone interested, I'm flying 150 miles south tomorrow morning to meet with a bunch of other "southern aviators". I wonder what they're all doing to heat there engines... I confess, I'm just stirring the pot... Steve Bennett 10 pm. 38F...
In a message dated 12/12/2008 9:32:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, lynnmatt(at)jps.net writes:
Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Lynn Matteson <lynnmatt(at)jps.net>
I found and ordered a copy of "Bent Props and Blow Pots" from
Amazon.com today...there are plenty of like new and used books listed
for less than $20, in hardback and soft, so yes, they're out there.
Lynn Matteson
Kitfox IV Speedster, taildragger
Jabiru 2200, #2062, 595+ hrs
Sensenich 62x46
flying again after rebuild, and new Electroair direct-fire ignition
system;
also building a new pair of snow skis
do not archive
On Dec 11, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Patrick Best wrote:
Quote: | --> Kitfox-List message posted by: Patrick Best
<Patrick.Best(at)telus.com>
I would like to recommend using a Blow-Pot, like the northern bush-
pilot pioneers!
For those of you who don't know what that is....
When a pilot was done flying for the day during the winter in
northern Canada, the "flight engineer's" responsibility was to
drain the oil from the engine into a large metal bucket and bring
it indoors over night. The next morning, in temperatures as low as
-60 F (yes, that's a real temp), the engineer would shroud the
engine, light the kersone blow-pot stove and heat the oil in the
buckets for a couple of hours. Then it would be poured back into
the engine for the flight.
I read it in this FASCINATING book. I would completely recommend
it. It's about 1930's era Junkers with skis. Crashes and flying
without reliable maps. Good pictures too.
The site says it's out of print, but there's probably many copies
around still.
http://www.harbourpublishing.com/title/BentPropsBlowPots
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ldboone(at)softcom.net Guest
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Posted: Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: Cold weather starting |
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In the interior of Alaska, I pre-heated the engine one hour for every 10 degrees F below 20 degrees F. An example: if it was minus 20 F, I would preheat the engine 4 hours before starting it.
[quote] ---
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