matronics(at)bob.brennan.
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 Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:28 pm Post subject: Performance stats for a Model II |
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I think my DAR may be dyslexic as well as expensive... he's the one that said he found the serial number but I just found it myself - it's actually number 507, so mid-way through the Model 2 run.
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Brennan
Sent: 11 July 2008 9:44 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Performance stats for a Model II
Finally found the serial number in the paperwork - #705. Since Model 2 ranged from #258 to #748 you could cetainly call mine "the last of the 2's". So I guess I have a model 2.5, or maybe even a 2.9<g>
Bob Brennan
1991 UK Model 2.x Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 02 July 2008 10:37 am
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Performance stats for a Model II
Bob:
I don't know whether the s/n is stamped somewhere on the airframe. Maybe someone out there knows? I only know mine from the paperwork I got when I bought the airplane. (S/n 374, delivered in 1989). I've heard here that there was some "blending" of the models between the last of the 2's and first of the 3's. Certainly, as non-structural mods were made these were incorporated into many kits then in-progress.
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Wed, 7/2/08, Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Performance stats for a Model II
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Wednesday, July 2, 2008, 7:05 AM
Hi Marco - where do I find the serial number? My plane was finished in 1991 but I believe was worked on for several years, so may be a mixture of II and III?
I don't think I can do a takeoff in 75ft but less than 250ft would be easy, as would a slightly more than 100ft roll-out with a little precision and practice. The previous owner bragged of being able to do a "vertical" landing given enough headwind, and it's not too difficult to achieve 0mph groundspeed at altitude with full flaps, nose high, and power.
I also don't think 1600fpm sustained is possible in my Kitfox but 1000 is typical and I would guess I could push that to 1200 on a good day and no breakfast.
I thought that Model II to III was a beefing up for more MTOW as Marco said plus a larger tail assembly to correct the loss of control authority at low speeds, hardly anything that would increase performance stats as published.
The 2 pages from my "Kitfox Owners Manual Model II" are the same as http://cfisher.com/kitfox/kitfox2poh.pdf except that mine say "Model III" at the top, which is obviously wrong.
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2(?) Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marco Menezes
Sent: 01 July 2008 8:23 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Kitfox-List: Performance stats for a Model II
Can't imagine the mods made to the 3 to increase MTOW to 1050 could possibly make much difference in the relative performance numbers. As I recall, it was mostly beefing up of the spar carry-trough tubes. Correct me if I'm wrong listers.
Clint's numbers are real-world. What's the kit s/n on your 2 Bob?
Marco Menezes N99KX
Model 2 582-90 C-Box 3:1
--- On Tue, 7/1/08, Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name> wrote:
| Quote: | From: Bob Brennan <matronics(at)bob.brennan.name>
Subject: RE: Performance stats for a Model II
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Date: Tuesday, July 1, 2008, 4:19 PM
#yiv1484170043 #yiv2028182423 .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0px; MARGIN: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px } #yiv1484170043 #yiv2028182423 { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma } Those numbers certainly sound more realistic Clint. I got the numbers from the "Kitfox Owners Manual Model II" that came with the logbooks, and I assume came with the original kit from Denney. However the title on the Performance page says "Performance KITFOX Model III" and I am reading under the "Rotax 582LC, solo" column. I always thought the "III" was a typo since all the other data seems to match, and I have always been led to believe I have a Model II.
So I guess my question changes to - is 75ft takeoff and 100ft landing and 1600fpm climb out valid for a Model III? Does anyone have access to Model II performance pages that they can scan for me please? And what are the major recognisable differences between a Model II and III?
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2(?!) Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
From: owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kitfox-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clint Bazzill
Sent: 01 July 2008 3:30 pm
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Performance stats for a Model II
I don't know where you are getting your information. My Kitfox Pilot's Guide says that a Model II 582 powered aircraft has a take off distance of 250 feet, landing ground roll of 250 feet and climb rate of 900 feet / minute.
Clint
From: matronics(at)bob.brennan.name
To: kitfox-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Performance stats for a Model II
Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2008 09:50:25 -0400
Hi all - I have a general question about the published performance stats for my Model II, they don't seem to be realistic.
Specifically - the takeoff distance is listed as 75ft, landing roll as 100ft, both "solo". I've done some pretty quick off-the-grounders with a good headwind and no fuel to speak of, but 75ft?(!) Is this possibly an interpolated number for the aircraft at "empty" weight with no pilot or fuel? Obviously performance specs differ for every pilot/plane combination but I thought specs were for a typical 170(?)lb pilot at 0 MSL on a perfect day. I'm not that far off 170lb (well, not TOO far that a gallon or 2 of gas wouldn't make up for...)
Climb-out is listed as 1600fpm. In which parallel universe? I have achieved 900fpm sustained on a good day, alone, light fuel, and having recently lightened my own load (I call it "dumping ballast").
I have tested Vne, stall speeds in various configurations, best angle and best rate of climb, etc but not MTOW or max Gs, and have no intention of doing so, but with takeoff/landing distances and rate-of-climb seemingly so far off I have to wonder about the other stats.
Yes - the airplane is configured as stated in the performance data column and the engine only had 80 hours since a complete overhaul so I don't think age was a factor. The prop is a ground-adjustable type and was tested and re-set early in flight testing although I don't know if the setting is for optimal performance, that's the only thing I can think of.
Thanks in advance,
Bob Brennan
1991 Model 2 Kitfox
Rotax 582 with 3 blade prop
Wrightsville Pa
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