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Empennage
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jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: Empennage

Tad,



I had about the same gap and filled it with epoxy and some real thin

fiberglass cloth.



 John Testement

jwt(at)roadmapscoaching.com

40321

Richmond, VA

FWF, engine, wiring

do not archive

--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:15 pm Post subject: Empennage

They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and

they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it

certified here though.

Dan 



--

wayne.e(at)grandecom.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: Empennage

Brian and Ruth,

  

 If you disregard the canopy and the doors, I might  agree with that. But I think the empennage was the hardest for me because I was,  and probably still am, a novice so I was learning a lot of new skills that  I hadn't ever had. Once I was finished with the empennage I had a lot more  confidence and experience.

  

 Wayne Edgerton #40336

  

  

   

   [quote][b]

wcurtis(at)core.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:39 pm Post subject: Empennage

[quote]They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it >certified here though. >Dan  > Dan,  "They" who and to which website are your referring?  I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website. William Curtis -SB about to fit lid http://nerv10.com/  [quote][b]

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: Empennage

That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level  of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I  only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what  you want to....

 http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact  them for a price list and options available.

 Dan

 N289DT



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W.  Curtis

Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM

To:  RV10-List(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE:  Empennage

 

 	  Quote: 	
		  They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB  builders and

they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would  get it

certified here though.

Dan 



Dan,
	




"They"  who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on  Van's (?) website.

William Curtis -SB about to fit lid

http://nerv10.com/ [quote]



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com



[b]

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: Empennage

My question remains unanswered.  How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule?  Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.  

   

This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builder’s QC standard.  We are the builders.  I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.  

     

John Cox 

 #40600   

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.

 Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: RE: Empennage  

  

   

That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to....  

http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available.  

Dan  

N289DT  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis

 Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM

 To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Empennage  

 	  Quote: 	
		  They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and

 >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it
	


 >certified here though.

 >Dan 

 >

 Dan,

 

 "They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.

 William Curtis -SB about to fit lid

 http://nerv10.com/   [quote]  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com    [b]

Jack.Phillips(at)cardinal
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:55 am Post subject: Empennage

I would be interested, depending on cost.  I also intend to buy a Wholly Cowl for my RV-10.  

   

Jack Phillips  

#40610  

   

--

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:11 am Post subject: Empennage

I see a new war on the horizon.



I would imagine that they could build an almost completed shell, ship it to 

you in a container and one would have to unrivet a lot of the work inorder 

to get the wiring and systems inplace.



The pictures just go to show how big a business this really is.  I 

personally am happy for the 51% rule and I am happy I am taking advantage of 

it.



Whining because I only put in about 11 hours last weekend.



Is anyone running anything under the pilot and co pilot floors before I 

close them up??????



John G. 409

need some fuel for the brain-motivation, chemical, spiritual or emotional. 

EEEHHHHH!

MAybe need a break, maybe a trip to Hawaii would be good.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: RE: Empennage

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:10:00 -0500



That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion

they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only

provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what

you want to....

http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price

list and options available.

Dan

N289DT



   _____



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis

Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM

To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Empennage

 >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and

 >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it

 >certified here though.

 >Dan

 >

Dan,



"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of

this $85K on Van's (?) website.

William Curtis -SB about to fit lid

http://nerv10.com/

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:18 am Post subject: Empennage

Haven't started on this section, but if things are as bad as people say, I 

would be interested in a better part. Price is an issue, but if the new part 

is that much improved and does as it claims, the value is realized and worth 

it.



The vertical stab faring was almost a quarter of an inch short in its 

intersection with the rudder, that was unexceptable for me and I spend 

atleast two or more hours increasing its length.



John G.

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: RE: RE: Empennage

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 07:38:18 -0800



My question remains unanswered.  How many builders would be interested

and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment

complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule?  Carbon fiber, lighter

weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges,

improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards.



This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right

thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to

the Builder's QC standard.  We are the builders.  I understand that $700

is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl.



John Cox

#40600



________________________________



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel

R.

Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RE: Empennage



That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion

they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only

provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what

you want to....



http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price

list and options available.



Dan



N289DT



________________________________



From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis

Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM

To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Empennage



 >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and

 >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it

 >certified here though.

 >Dan

 >

Dan,



"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of

this $85K on Van's (?) website.

William Curtis -SB about to fit lid

http://nerv10.com/



href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics

.com/Navigator?RV10-List

href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com

owl40188(at)yahoo.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:37 am Post subject: Empennage

Hi John,

  

  I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with an overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where how much I would be willing to part with.

  

 - at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no brainer for me.

 - at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think about it.  Depends on how much lighter, and how good the fit is.

 - at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify.

  

 Niko

 40188

 ---

mritter509(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:39 am Post subject: Empennage

I just put some sound proofing material down before closing them up.



Mark





 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "John Gonzalez" <indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RE: Empennage

Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 08:11:33 -0800






I see a new war on the horizon.



I would imagine that they could build an almost completed shell, ship it to 

you in a container and one would have to unrivet a lot of the work inorder 

to get the wiring and systems inplace.



The pictures just go to show how big a business this really is.  I 

personally am happy for the 51% rule and I am happy I am taking advantage 

of it.



Whining because I only put in about 11 hours last weekend.



Is anyone running anything under the pilot and co pilot floors before I 

close them up??????



John G. 409

need some fuel for the brain-motivation, chemical, spiritual or emotional. 

EEEHHHHH!

MAybe need a break, maybe a trip to Hawaii would be good.

>From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>

>Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>To: <rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

>Subject: RE: RE: Empennage

>Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:10:00 -0500

>

>That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion

>they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only

>provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what

>you want to....

>http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price

>list and options available.

>Dan

>N289DT

>

>   _____

>

>From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com

>[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis

>Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM

>To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com

>Subject: RE: Empennage

> >They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and

> >they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it

> >certified here though.

> >Dan

> >

>Dan,

>

>"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of

>this $85K on Van's (?) website.

>William Curtis -SB about to fit lid

>http://nerv10.com/

>

>


	


_________________________________________________________________

Type your favorite song.  Get a customized station.  Try MSN Radio powered 

by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

bldgrv10450(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:40 am Post subject: Empennage

John

  

 Van's quick build kits are $4,800 for wings  and $6,000 for the fuselage. I gather from what advanced builders say about  the fiberglass experience, that a well designed and ready to install cabin  cover, with an improved door system should cost near the range of the  other Van's Q/B kits. Say $5K for starters. The real draw will  probably be the design, plus workmanship and ease of installation. The  spinner, cowling and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed with improved air  handling intake and oversized easy to open dip stick access should  fetch just North of $2K. 

  

 How does weight compare for the C/F vs  F/G?

  

 Excellent fit and finish  that match the quality of the airplanes we are building  would be great. Where do I place my order?

  

 Paul Grimstad

RV10 40450 rudder pedals and  fuselage

Portland, OR 97219



 [quote]   ---

william(at)gbta.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 8:55 am Post subject: Empennage

So far up to this point I have decided to  go slow build on the metal kits (wing and fuse) because I enjoy that part of  it.  Money is also an issue.  However, I have absolutely no experience  with fiberglass/carbon fiber so I would definitely be interested.  Some of  the money I save on the slow build kits could be put into a QB canopy.  If  you can come up with something PLEASE keep us informed!!!    

  

 At the rate I'm building I won't need the  parts until about April 2012 anyway so I'll give you plenty of  time!!!

  

 Bill

 RV-10 Emp #40137

 [quote]   ---

sean(at)stephensville.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Empennage

 	  Quote: 	
		   need some fuel for the brain-motivation, chemical, spiritual or  

 emotional. EEEHHHHH!

 MAybe need a break, maybe a trip to Hawaii would be good.




	


We took a trip to Hawaii last April.  Careful, it eats into the plane  

budget very fast!



-Sean #40303 (Kit still in storage waiting on new factory completion)



New Plane Factory Pics... <http://www.flickr.com/photos/stephensville/ 

sets/72157594379221777/>



DO NOT ARCHIVE

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: Empennage

Bill & Tami Britton wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   At the rate I'm building I won't need the parts until about April 2012

 anyway so I'll give you plenty of time!!!


	


	Sounds like you are at least a decade ahead of me...  



-Dj



do not archive

mike(at)cleavelandtool.co
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:26 am Post subject: Empennage

I would be interested.  I stand firmly behind the word and spirit of the 51% rule.  However I love aluminum and hate the glass.  I am building a slow build kit (read very very slow) so if I could buy a completed lid and door system that was ready to rivet on I would jump on it and I would still be in the 51%.  Same with cowl, pants, fairings...  If it could be done to the point of super quality work primed and ready to paint it would be worth the money for me, after all what did I save on the QB aluminum parts? 



Mike



 



[quote]

 --

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:28 am Post subject: Empennage

Niko,

 

 be veeeeeeeeeeery careful to rivet a carbon fiber part onto aluminum with aluminum rivets. Between carbon and aluminum you have a large difference in electrical potential, this will cause severe corrosion of the aluminum part.

 

 So some sort of glass inserts and coverage of the carbon needs to be done to avoid bad surprises or a coating of the aluminum of some kind..

 

 br

 

 Werner

 

 Niko wrote: [quote]         Hi John,

    

    I haven't thought about this much, however, for a considerably lighter graphite canopy thats "almost ready to rivet in place" with an overhead similar to what Accuracy Avionics provides here is where how much I would be willing to part with.

    

   - at 1K to 2K above Vans rebate it would be a great deal and a no brainer for me.

   - at 3K to 4K above Vans rebate I would have to think about it.  Depends on how much lighter, and how good the fit is.

   - at 5K above Vans rebate it would a bit expensive to justify.

    

   Niko

   40188

   

   

   ---

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:50 am Post subject: Empennage

John

 For myself I would be willing to pay a $3-4K premium for a  better top with doors and console already fit, final trim to mount. Much more  than that I would be hard pressed not to do it myself.

 Dan



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John W.  Cox

Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:38 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RE:  Empennage

 

  

My question remains  unanswered.  How many builders would be interested and how much might they  pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current  FAA 51% rule?  Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead  air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21  century QC standards. 

  

This would like remain  predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who  find the composite components not up to the Builder’s QC standard.  We are  the builders.  I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those  going with a Wholly Cowl. 

   

John  Cox  

#40600  

    

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.

Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10  AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RE:  Empennage

 

  

That is  because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to  would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for  informational purposes and you can do with it what you want  to.... 

http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact  them for a price list and options available. 

Dan 

N289DT 

    

 

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis

Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37  PM

To:  RV10-List(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE:  Empennage 

 	  Quote: 	
		  They do, and it is $85k, goto the  website for the Vans QB builders and

they have it listed for purchase. Do  not know how you would get it

certified here though.

Dan  



Dan,
	




"They" who and to which website are your referring? I  see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.

William Curtis -SB about to  fit lid

http://nerv10.com/  	  Quote: 	
		    href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com    	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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9

 	  Quote: 	
		  href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List 	
0  [quote][b]

cloudvalley(at)comcast.ne
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 9:57 am Post subject: Empennage

Hello,

 My wife and I would be interested in this better fiberglass canopy and cowl. We would like to know how much additional cost there  would be, and who manufactures them. We are not nearly at that point yet, but  we want to keep infomed. Just finished  our empennage

 Brian and Ruth Preston

 #40666

  

  	  Quote: 	
		  -------------- Original message -------------- 

From: "John W. Cox" <johnwcox(at)pacificnw.com> 

       

My question remains unanswered.  How many builders would be interested and how much might they pay for an improved canopy with door fitment complete which meets the current FAA 51% rule?  Carbon fiber, lighter weight, roll bars included, overhead air plenum, improved hinges, improved locks with fitment and alignment up to 21 century QC standards. 

  

This would like remain predicated on VANS continuing to do the right thing by crediting builders who find the composite components not up to the Builder’s QC standard.  We are the builders.  I understand that $700 is the customary rebate for those going with a Wholly Cowl. 

   

John Cox 

#40600 

    

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.

Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 7:10 AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: RE: Empennage

 

  

That is because it is not offered through Vans. The level of completion they build it to would not meet the US requirements for 51%, so I only provide this link for informational purposes and you can do with it what you want to.... 

http://www.bonanzametalcrafters.com/index.htm contact them for a price list and options available. 

Dan 

N289DT 

    

 

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of W. Curtis

Sent: Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:37 PM

To: RV10-List(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Empennage 

 	  Quote: 	
		  They do, and it is $85k, goto the website for the Vans QB builders and

they have it listed for purchase. Do not know how you would get it

certified here though.

Dan 



Dan,
	




"They" who and to which website are your referring? I see no mention of this $85K on Van's (?) website.

William Curtis -SB about to fit lid

http://nerv10.com/  	  Quote: 	
		    h

ref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com    	
0 	  Quote: 	
		   	
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8

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9[/quote]  [quote][b]

deutscht(at)rhwhotels.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:09 am Post subject: Empennage

Just thought I would add that I am just finishing my wheel, leg, and intersection fairings for paint.  Between install and lining them up and getting them ready for final paint I believe this has been the most time consuming of all the single tasks so far. (as stated previously it is much easier to mount and line them before the engine is hung and the wings are on)  So for those who haven’t gotten this far don’t get hug up on the top and doors.  

   

IMHO the Van’s kits are much easier than any of the other kits out there.  30 or 40 hours working on the cover and doors isn’t much.  Besides it is good glass experience if you ever need to make a repair.  

     

Tom  Deutsch, #40545  

   

Office 913 451-1222  

Fax 913 451-6493  

Cell 913 908-7752  

        

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Grimstad

 Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 10:40 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: RE: Empennage  

  

     

John  

    

   

    

Van's quick build kits are $4,800 for wings and $6,000 for the fuselage. I gather from what advanced builders say about the fiberglass experience, that a well designed and ready to install cabin cover, with an improved door system should cost near the range of the other Van's Q/B kits. Say $5K for starters. The real draw will probably be the design, plus workmanship and ease of installation. The spinner, cowling and plenum, again nicely crafted and designed with improved air handling intake and oversized easy to open dip stick access should fetch just North of $2K.   

    

   

    

How does weight compare for the C/F vs F/G?  

    

   

    

Excellent fit and finish that match the quality of the airplanes we are building would be great. Where do I place my order?  

    

   

    

Paul Grimstad

 RV10 40450 rudder pedals and fuselage

 Portland, OR  97219  

  [quote]    

---

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