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Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

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pbraswell(at)alterthought
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

Gang,

 I've got a problem  with my Whelen strobe system blowing a 10 amp fuse.

  

 I'm using a 10  amp mini-blade fuse which is blowing intermittently.  The kit manufacturer  as per the instructions, recommends a 10 amp fuse, but of course they allude to  a 10 amp aircraft style reset-able fuse.  I can seem to get the fuse to  blow fairly regularly if I turn the strobes on and off in quick  succession.  The fuse will blow less reliably if I turn the strobes on  prior to takeoff and just leave them on.

  

 My  questions are these: Would there be any difference in a 10 amp blade fuse  vs. the mechanical breaker style fuse as prescribed by the manufacturer?   And the other question is is there such thing as a slow-blow mini blade style  fuse and could this possibly make a difference?  And finally perhaps there  is something more insidious at work here?

  

 TIA,

 Peter

  

 

_______________________________________



Peter  J. Braswell



804.934.0300 Office 

804.690.5896  Mobile



_______________________________________



  

   [quote][b]

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 4:49 am Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

At 09:01 PM 9/11/2006 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Gang,

I've got a problem with my Whelen strobe system blowing a 10 amp fuse.



I'm using a 10 amp mini-blade fuse which is blowing intermittently.  The 

kit manufacturer as per the instructions, recommends a 10 amp fuse, but of 

course they allude to a 10 amp aircraft style reset-able fuse.  I can seem 

to get the fuse to blow fairly regularly if I turn the strobes on and off 

in quick succession.  The fuse will blow less reliably if I turn the 

strobes on prior to takeoff and just leave them on.



My questions are these: Would there be any difference in a 10 amp blade 

fuse vs. the mechanical breaker style fuse as prescribed by the 

manufacturer?  And the other question is is there such thing as a slow-blow m


	


    How old is this system? Is this a "new" phenomenon that's

    popped up after a period of satisfactory operation or has

    it existed from square-one?  Have you placed an ammeter in

    series with the supply line to measure the system's current

    draw? You need an analog meter to get some notion of minimum

    and maximum current between firings. Which strobe system is it?



 	  Quote: 	
		  ini blade style fuse and could this possibly make a difference?  And 

finally perhaps there is something more insidious at work here?


	


    Fuses are faster to respond than most breakers. It could

    be that your strobes are drawing an average well below

    the 10A rating of the fuse but hit it repeatedly with

    levels that exceed 10A and degrade the fuse over a period

    of time.



    The real definitive measurement would be to put a data acquisition

    system on it and watch it for a period of time and the compare

    that data with a system that performs as expected. Unfortunately,

    most folks in your position don't have access to such equipment

    and you're stuck with hip-shots hopefully filtered through some sense

    of the physics.



        Bob . . .

      ---------------------------------------------------------

      < What is so wonderful about scientific truth...is that >

      < the authority which determines whether there can be   >

      < debate or not does not reside in some fraternity of   >

      < scientists; nor is it divine. The authority rests     >

      < with experiment.                                      >

      <                            --Lawrence M. Krauss       >

      ---------------------------------------------------------

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pbraswell(at)alterthought
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:47 am Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

Bob et. al. -

No, this is a brand new install/system and has been exhibiting this behavior

from almost day 1. 



I do have an inline amp meter that I can hook up in an attempt to see what

kind of current draw I'm actually getting.  I agree with you guys that this

and looking for obvious "bad" things (bad switch, bad/faulty connections) is

probably the place to start.



And yes, you are right Bob, no fancy-smancy equipment in my toolshed as you

suggested 



Thanks!

Peter 



--

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mprather(at)spro.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

Is the mini blade fuse smaller than the regular ATC fuse (for which b and

c sells holders)?



Many amp meters are limited to 10A.  If the trouble you are having is

blowing a 10A fuse, likely the circuit is drawing more than 10A.  Be a

little careful here with the meter, though it's also likely fuse

protected.



As Bob has mentioned in the past, an analog meter often has faster

response time than many Digital MultiMeters (DMM).  The quicker response

time can help in observing transient behavior in a circuit.  It may be

quite a bit ea$ier to get an analog ammeter than it would be to get a more

sophisticated data acquistion system.



Dumb question:  Is there anything else wired on the same 10A fuse circuit

(even though maybe it's turned off)?



If a device has much input capacitance (power supply caps), turning the

device on can cause a significant above-steady-state current draw - to

charge the caps.  Power cycling the device repeatedly can generate higher

average current.

Regards,



Matt-



[quote] 

 <pbraswell(at)alterthought.com>

 Bob et. al. -

 No, this is a brand new install/system and has been exhibiting this

 behavior

 from almost day 1.



 I do have an inline amp meter that I can hook up in an attempt to see what

 kind of current draw I'm actually getting.  I agree with you guys that

 this

 and looking for obvious "bad" things (bad switch, bad/faulty connections)

 is

 probably the place to start.



 And yes, you are right Bob, no fancy-smancy equipment in my toolshed as

 you

 suggested 



 Thanks!

 Peter



 --

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pbraswell(at)alterthought
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:05 am Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

Matt,

Thank you very much for the input.



I probably need to offer a amendment/correction to my earlier post, prompted

by one of your questions.  I perhaps may have mis-named what I'm using.  I

AM using a 10a ATC fuse.  I purchased an assorted tray of them from Stein

Air.  Sorry for the confusion.



Also, I do not have anything else on that circuit.  I tried very hard (and

succeeded) to have one device/one fuse.



Peter 



--

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jimw_btg(at)earthlink.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

Food for thought a full strobe system can draw from 7 A for the Whelen

A413A HDA-CF at 14 Volts to as low as 1.7A with the A409ATS CF at 14 volts.

If you have a 7A operating unit when you turn it on it could I believe when

loading up the capacitors to fire the 4kv trigger coil and provide the 250v

anode to cathode current....I am not sure if it would surge the load to

over 10 Amps?



Jim Wickert

Vision CorvAir #159

 	  Quote: 	
		   [Original Message]

 From: Peter Braswell <pbraswell(at)alterthought.com>

 To: <aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com>

 Date: 9/12/2006 11:17:56 AM

 Subject: RE: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses



 

<pbraswell(at)alterthought.com>
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Matt,

 Thank you very much for the input.



 I probably need to offer a amendment/correction to my earlier post,

prompted
	


[quote] by one of your questions.  I perhaps may have mis-named what I'm using.  I

 AM using a 10a ATC fuse.  I purchased an assorted tray of them from Stein

 Air.  Sorry for the confusion.



 Also, I do not have anything else on that circuit.  I tried very hard (and

 succeeded) to have one device/one fuse.



 Peter 



 --

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

At 12:03 PM 9/12/2006 -0400, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

<pbraswell(at)alterthought.com>

Matt,

Thank you very much for the input.



I probably need to offer a amendment/correction to my earlier post, prompted

by one of your questions.  I perhaps may have mis-named what I'm using.  I

AM using a 10a ATC fuse.  I purchased an assorted tray of them from Stein

Air.  Sorry for the confusion.



Also, I do not have anything else on that circuit.  I tried very hard (and

succeeded) to have one device/one fuse.



Peter


	


  Okay. Just for grins, put a 15A fuse in and see what happens.

  15A is not so much greater as to put the wire in danger. I presume

  the strobe is running normally when the fuse is not blown. The

  15A fuse experiment will help us put a crude bound on the

  incoming current and at least show that it's not a transient

  hard fault which will blow the 15A fuse too



   Bob . . .

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pbraswell(at)alterthought
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:29 pm Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

Bob,

Easy enough to do!  I'll give it a whirl and see what happens.  And to

answer your question, yes the strobe work fine when it is working.



Thanks!

Peter 



--

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nuckollsr(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:02 pm Post subject: Whelen Strobes Blowing Fuses

At 09:49 AM 9/12/2006 -0600, you wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Is the mini blade fuse smaller than the regular ATC fuse (for which b and

c sells holders)?


	


   Interesting question. If he WAS using the ATM "mini" fuses, would

   we expect it to be twitchy compared to it's larger brother. I uploaded

   the spec sheets to:



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/ATC_Specs.pdf



and



http://www.aeroelectric.com/Mfgr_Data/Fuses_and_Current_Limiters/Bussman/ATC_Specs.pdf



    I note that the "little guys" spec the same

    headroom (ATM-3 ATC-3 fuses both go asymtotic

    at 4A).  At 10A, the ATM-3 average blow is about 140 mS

    and the ATC-3 is 80 mS. I don't know if you were thinking

    the same thing I was but in any case, it's interesting

    to note that the smaller fuse has a bit more

    thermo-dynamic mass than big brother. Who wuda thunk it?



 	  Quote: 	
		  As Bob has mentioned in the past, an analog meter often has faster

response time than many Digital MultiMeters (DMM).  The quicker response

time can help in observing transient behavior in a circuit.  It may be

quite a bit ea$ier to get an analog ammeter than it would be to get a more

sophisticated data acquistion system.


	


    One of the reasons I keep analog meters around is to

    watch trends/dynamics of the parameter being observed.

    A digital meter is difficult to get a sense of min/max,

    duty cycle (stays high longer than low) and frequency.



    Digitals may be giving be perfectly accurate data for each

    time they take a reading (typically 1 to 4 times per second)

    but one cannot deduce the behaviors cited from what appears

    to be a dancing set of random numbers.



    Many digital meters have a bar graph built in under the

    digits but it's hard to beat the black pointer waving

    across a white scale to get a sense of "the beat".



    Bob . . .

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