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strobe noise

 
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag landing lights. I hear no strobe noise with the engine off. However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes, wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon. Any ideas. All shielding according to installation instructions. One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs to the circuit breakers powering these lights. But what difference does the engine running make? Any ideas.

Looking forward to your reply,
Bernie


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user9253



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Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: strobe noise Reply with quote

When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.
When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.
If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?
Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:58 pm    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

Joe,
Yes on the insulation of the audio jacks. I will confirm the voltage regulator grounding.

Thanks
Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:



When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.
When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.
If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?
Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?

--------
Joe Gores




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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 4
Location: MS

PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

Might also be useful to 'visualize' the ground paths from the various appliances back to the bat neg, your audio devices ground paths back to bat neg, and the ground paths for the regulator & alternator (engine ground wire) back to bat neg. If any of the noise producers (alt, any 'switcher' type LED supplies, etc) share a ground path with your audio  gear....
Charlie
On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 4:07 PM Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)>

Joe,
Yes on the insulation of the audio jacks. I will confirm the voltage regulator grounding.

Thanks
Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 13, 2020, at 12:16 PM, user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>
>
> When the engine is off, the battery powers everything.
> When the engine is running, the alternator powers everything.
> If the voltage regulator is external, is it properly grounded?
> Are the audio jacks mounted with insulating washers?
>
> --------
> Joe Gores


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user9253



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: strobe noise Reply with quote

Is the alternator "B" lead of adequate size and are its connections clean and tight?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:57 pm    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

At 01:55 PM 10/13/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com>

I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag
landing lights. I hear no strobe noise with the engine off.
However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes,
wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon.

When you say 'noise', how would you describe
it. Is it a musical note or whine that changes
pitch with engine rpm?

Quote:
Any ideas. All shielding according to installation instructions.

Shielding is almost NEVER an issue with the
symptoms you've described.

Quote:
One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs
to the circuit breakers powering these lights.

Proximity to breakers/breaker wiring is also
and exceedingly rare prospect for root cause.

Quote:
But what difference does the engine running make?

I suspect alternator noise which can't happen
if the alternator is not putting out power.
Does the noise go away when you shut the alternator
OFF with the engine still running?

If you shut all the new systems off and bring
them on one-at-a-time, does the noise return
for any combination of functional/non-functional
systems?

What kind of airplane, engine and alternator?

Wired per any of the z-figures?



Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 7:36 am    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days.

It is a 1956 G Bonanza. Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet. I did found
an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead. Older radios are grounded to various unknown places. The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven’t tried Turing off the alternator with the engine running. Hope to get to it tomorrow. In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator?
Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 13, 2020, at 5:04 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

 At 01:55 PM 10/13/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com>

I recently installed Aero Leds wing tip strobes, beacon and wig wag
landing lights. I hear no strobe noise with the engine off.
However when its running I get noise from the wing tip strobes,
wig wag and pitot heat, no noise from the beacon.

When you say 'noise', how would you describe
it. Is it a musical note or whine that changes
pitch with engine rpm?

Quote:
Any ideas. All shielding according to installation instructions.

Shielding is almost NEVER an issue with the
symptoms you've described.

Quote:
One issue I suspect is the nearby location of the audio plugs
to the circuit breakers powering these lights.

Proximity to breakers/breaker wiring is also
and exceedingly rare prospect for root cause.

Quote:
But what difference does the engine running make?

I suspect alternator noise which can't happen
if the alternator is not putting out power.
Does the noise go away when you shut the alternator
OFF with the engine still running?

If you shut all the new systems off and bring
them on one-at-a-time, does the noise return
for any combination of functional/non-functional
systems?

What kind of airplane, engine and alternator?

Wired per any of the z-figures?



Bob . . .


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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1601
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: strobe noise Reply with quote

Usually the negative wire needs to be the same size as the positive wire. The exception is when
the negative current has another path to ground, for instance through mounting brackets.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:22 pm    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

At 10:33 AM 10/14/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days.

It is a 1956 G Bonanza.

Hmmm . . . airplanes of this vintage are
renowned for high resistance airframes which
are fertilizer for ground loop issues.

Quote:
Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The
pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet.


Are all the 'hums' the same pitch and do they
rise and fall with alternator rpm?

Quote:
I did found an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded
to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead.

. . . all this happens behind the cabin?

Quote:
Older radios are grounded to various unknown places.
The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven't tried Turing off the alternator with
the engine running.

This is key . . . but I'm betting the noise
is unique to the alternator and will go
away with the alternator off. Where is
the battery in this airplane?


Quote:
In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator?

alternator? above you cited the regulator? If it's
the regulator then don't worry about it. A regulator
ground is never root cause of the constellation of
symptoms you've listed.


Bob . . .


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:35 pm    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

Hello GuysMade some progress trouble shooting the LED strobe and wig wag noise. Grounded the regulator per the plan power installation directions with 16 ga. Wire to the firewall battery ground. Also cleaned all the ground lugs at this point.
Ran the engine and have the same noise except when the alternator field is tripped shutting down the alternator.
Next step will be to confirm the “B” lead is tight on both ends. Any other suggestions?
Thanks Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 14, 2020, at 12:31 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

 At 10:33 AM 10/14/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days.

It is a 1956 G Bonanza.

Hmmm . . . airplanes of this vintage are
renowned for high resistance airframes which
are fertilizer for ground loop issues.

Quote:
Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The
pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet.


Are all the 'hums' the same pitch and do they
rise and fall with alternator rpm?

Quote:
I did found an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded
to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead.

. . . all this happens behind the cabin?

Quote:
Older radios are grounded to various unknown places.
The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven't tried Turing off the alternator with
the engine running.

This is key . . . but I'm betting the noise
is unique to the alternator and will go
away with the alternator off. Where is
the battery in this airplane?


Quote:
In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator?

alternator? above you cited the regulator? If it's
the regulator then don't worry about it. A regulator
ground is never root cause of the constellation of
symptoms you've listed.


Bob . . .


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arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:49 pm    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

Just thought of some others things to try to isolate the noise source. With all the avionics on each one was turned off and on one at a time. No noise change
Changed phone plug from intercom Jack to aux jack that’s wired direct to the com through the audio panel, noise remains
Audio panel off, no change noise remains
Changed volume on ADF, KX155, intercom, no change in the Volume of LED based cyclic noise
The only way to eliminate the noise is to disable the alternator.
I can Check the integrity of the connection to the buss and the alternator B. What else should be checked?
Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 16, 2020, at 7:32 PM, Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Hello GuysMade some progress trouble shooting the LED strobe and wig wag noise. Grounded the regulator per the plan power installation directions with 16 ga. Wire to the firewall battery ground. Also cleaned all the ground lugs at this point.
Ran the engine and have the same noise except when the alternator field is tripped shutting down the alternator.
Next step will be to confirm the “B” lead is tight on both ends. Any other suggestions?
Thanks Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 14, 2020, at 12:31 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

 At 10:33 AM 10/14/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days.

It is a 1956 G Bonanza.

Hmmm . . . airplanes of this vintage are
renowned for high resistance airframes which
are fertilizer for ground loop issues.

Quote:
Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The
pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet.


Are all the 'hums' the same pitch and do they
rise and fall with alternator rpm?

Quote:
I did found an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded
to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead.

. . . all this happens behind the cabin?

Quote:
Older radios are grounded to various unknown places.
The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven't tried Turing off the alternator with
the engine running.

This is key . . . but I'm betting the noise
is unique to the alternator and will go
away with the alternator off. Where is
the battery in this airplane?


Quote:
In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator?

alternator? above you cited the regulator? If it's
the regulator then don't worry about it. A regulator
ground is never root cause of the constellation of
symptoms you've listed.


Bob . . .




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finn.usa(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:07 pm    Post subject: strobe noise Reply with quote

Try to trace the path from the alternator case to the negative terminal of the battery.
Ground strap between engine and airframe?
As Bob pointed out, that old airframe may not provide a good ground path. If possible, temporarily for testing, a good size wire from alternator to battery negative terminal.
Perhaps another way of looking at it: is the ground path to the radio in any way carrying a current between alternator and battery ground?
Finn

On 10/17/2020 12:47 AM, Bernie wrote:

Quote:
Just thought of some others things to try to isolate the noise source.  With all the avionics on each one was turned off and on one at a time. No noise change
Changed phone plug from intercom Jack to aux jack that’s wired direct to the com through the audio panel, noise remains
Audio panel off, no change noise remains
Changed volume on ADF, KX155, intercom, no change in the Volume of LED based cyclic noise


The only way to eliminate the noise is to disable the alternator. 


I can Check the integrity of the connection to the buss and the alternator B. What else should be checked?


Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 16, 2020, at 7:32 PM, Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com> (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com) wrote:

 Hello Guys Made some progress trouble shooting the LED strobe and wig wag noise. Grounded the regulator per the plan power installation directions with 16 ga. Wire to the firewall battery ground. Also cleaned all the ground lugs at this point. 


Ran the engine and have the same noise except when the alternator field is tripped shutting down the alternator. 


Next step will be to confirm the “B” lead is tight on both ends. Any other suggestions?


Thanks Bernie

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 14, 2020, at 12:31 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com) wrote:

 At 10:33 AM 10/14/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Thanks to all of you for the quick responses. I’ll be back to the airplane in a couple days.

It is a 1956 G Bonanza.

  Hmmm . . . airplanes of this vintage are
  renowned for high resistance airframes which
  are fertilizer for ground loop issues.

Quote:
Plane power alternator. The strobes and wig wag noise is an alternating ping/hum. The
pitot heat and landing lights are a steady hum. The LED beacon is quiet.


  Are all the 'hums' the same pitch and do they
  rise and fall with alternator rpm?

Quote:
I did found an empty grounding lug on the regulator. All of the above elec. devices are grounded
to a ground buss which is stainless bolted to a bulkhead.

  . . . all this happens behind the cabin?

Quote:
Older radios are grounded to various unknown places.
The noise goes away when I shut down the engine but haven't tried Turing off the alternator with
the engine running.

  This is key . . . but I'm betting the noise
  is unique to the alternator and will go
  away with the alternator off. Where is
  the battery in this airplane?


Quote:
In the mean time would a 16 gauge wire be appropriate to ground the alternator?

  alternator? above you cited the regulator? If it's
  the regulator then don't worry about it. A regulator
  ground is never root cause of the constellation of
  symptoms you've listed.


  Bob . . .




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