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Parachute

 
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Mallard



Joined: 22 Oct 2019
Posts: 49
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject: Parachute Reply with quote

Hi guys and gals,
I'm new here as I've just recently purchased a Classic Tri-Gear with a Rotax 912S engine.

I based in Ireland and you may or may not know that we recently had a tragedy in Co. Wexford (on the South East Coast) where 2 very experienced pilots (one was a very experienced instructor) were killed when their Rollason Condor broke up in mid air.

This has made me think about Parachutes and I wondered if anyone has ever fitted one to a Europa or know of anyone doing it. Or if anyone has looked into the possibility/practicality of doing it.

Cheers
James


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject: Parachute Reply with quote

No personal experience with Europa though flew a tailless biplane glider for years with a BRS chute...the Cirrus install is dependent upon moulded in joggles to accommodate the breakaway suspension straps... retrofitting same on Europa would be a challenge while maintaining fuselage structural integrity but probably doable by some adventurous lad...considerable weight penalty and, I suspect, significant regulatory hurdles which would rule out a one-off installation.

Not sure about Ireland, but in US we call it “experimental aviation”.

Good luck,

Fred

Sent from my iPhone

Quote:
On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Mallard <james(at)kingdom.ie> wrote:



Hi guys and gals,
I'm new here as I've just recently purchased a Classic Tri-Gear with a Rotax 912S engine.

I based in Ireland and you may or may not know that we recently had a tragedy in Co. Wexford (on the South East Coast) where 2 very experienced pilots (one was a very experienced instructor) were killed when their Rollason Condor broke up in mid air.
This has made me think about Parachutes and I wondered if anyone has ever fitted one to a Europa or know of anyone doing it. Or if anyone has looked into the possibility/practicality of doing it.

Cheers
James

--------
Seat of my pants




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barp99(at)gmail.com
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject: Parachute Reply with quote

Hi James,

I remember  back in 2007  a Europa owner, Miles McCallum, looked into a
BRS install on a Classic. The Flier magazine was covering its install,
much of the stress analysis & design was complete. The project was
abandoned as far as I know.  As Fred said, fuselage integrity &
considerable weight were issues. Retrofitting onto an existing completed
airframe would also be much more difficult than during the build.

Cheers,

Brian Phillips.



No personal experience with Europa though flew a tailless biplane glider
for years with a BRS chute...the Cirrus install is dependent upon
moulded in joggles to accommodate the breakaway suspension straps...
retrofitting same on Europa would be a challenge while maintaining
fuselage structural integrity but probably doable by some adventurous
lad...considerable weight penalty and, I suspect, significant regulatory
hurdles which would rule out a one-off installation.

Not sure about Ireland, but in US we call it “experimental aviation”.

Good luck,

Fred

Sent from my iPhone
Quote:
On Oct 22, 2019, at 4:46 PM, Mallard <james(at)kingdom.ie> wrote:



Hi guys and gals,
I'm new here as I've just recently purchased a Classic Tri-Gear with a
Rotax 912S engine.
I based in Ireland and you may or may not know that we recently had a
tragedy in Co. Wexford (on the South East Coast) where 2 very
experienced pilots (one was a very experienced instructor) were killed
when their Rollason Condor broke up in mid air. This has made me think
about Parachutes and I wondered if anyone has ever fitted one to a
Europa or know of anyone doing it. Or if anyone has looked into the
possibility/practicality of doing it.

Cheers
James

--------
Seat of my pants


Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=491921#491921



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John Wighton



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 239

PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Parachute Reply with quote

I did the engineering stress analysis of the Flyer BRS installation. It was abandoned as it compromised the airframe and added mass.

If the Europa Mk3 was to be designed a BRS type system could be included with lower mass and fewer compromises.

I provided content for the Flyer mag editions which chronicled the build, authored by Miles.

I intent to write a piece for the Europa magazine one of these days. I am currently re-stressing the aircraft and have a wing test rig and XS wing to perform a test to failure.

John Wighton


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Roland



Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:29 am    Post subject: Re: Parachute Reply with quote

Hi James,

the PH-GOO (Trigear XS) https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/PH-GOO has a BRS fitted, which is hooked to the engine frame and to two points of the wing spar on both sides of the cabin. However I wouldn't really trust the system as (I think) it has never been tested. Also the Cirrus CAPS has to be maintained in certain intervalls (line cutters replaced after 6 years, chute repacked after ??? years etc.).

In my Europa I wear automatically deployed (ripchord is connected to a hook behind the seats) emergency parachutes RFB-TC1 http://www.buchsein.eu/?page_id=89 instead of seat cushions. They need to be repacked annually and they weight about 6 kg each. Price is about 2200 EUR each. Minimum height for full deployment is 80m AGL. I'm 1,82m tall and I fit in quite well (XS-version). I like the peace of mind to have this "last option" or "plan C" like I call it. If you manage to get out in time, you can count on it working >99 %.

Cheers
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:03 am    Post subject: Parachute Reply with quote

FWIW, personal chutes are my preference as well.... and use a custom Butler brand in my HB, and plan on getting them to make custom packs for my Europa in a wedge shape for the dead lumbar space as to not lose any seating space.  Butler does a fantastic job at custom packs, are reasonably priced, and have a patented slider to enable hi-speed deployment.
Roland's static line is an intriguing idea.....


Cheers,
Pete
C-GNPZ classic
A239 pile of dual wing parts

On Thu, Oct 31, 2019 at 5:36 AM Roland <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)> wrote:

Quote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>

Hi James,

the PH-GOO (Trigear XS)  https://abpic.co.uk/pictures/registration/PH-GOO  has a BRS fitted, which - when deployed - is hooked to the engine frame and to two points of the wing spar on both sides of the cabin. However I wouldn't really trust the system as (I think) it has never been tested. Also the Cirrus CAPS has to be maintained in certain intervalls (line cutters replaced after 6 years, chute repacked etc.).

In my Europa I wear automatically deployed (ripchord is connected to a hook behind the seats) emergency parachutes RFB-TC1http://www.buchsein.eu/?page_id=89   instead of seat cushions. They need to be repacked annually and they weight about 6 kg each. Price is about 2200 EUR each. Minimum height for full deployment is 80m AGL. I'm 1,82m tall and I fit in quite well (XS-version). I like the peace of mind to have this "last option" or "plan C" like I call it.

Cheers
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914




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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject: Parachute Reply with quote

Hi! Roland/all
IMHO the deployment of a BRS type parachute at sufficient height is to wave
"GOODBYE" TO many likely opportunities to save yourself and your aircraft
during an unscheduled landing (except a water Landing )because once your
aircraft was suspended at sufficient height you have no control of where you
will hit " mother earth". Without a BRS chute the aircraft will still glide
in the event of an engine out situation ( although on a pretty severe
downward path ) during which time you will have had numerous attempts to
re-start the engine and be able to select where is the best option to make
your landing .
Having said that I have never had such an incident other than in my mind by
advance planning and practiced emergency dead stick approaches or emergency
failures on take offs.( only ever land forward into that often planned
place, do not attempt to return to the airfield you will NOT even make the
perimeter.
Now if you want to make provision for a catastrophic structural failure at
height like William Mills ( bless him ) then the BRS chute would be useful
other than would the BRS be able to be deployed at such airspeed and risks
of even more disintegration.
The magazine reporter ( also a "Mills") who designed the Europa BRS
installation had planned on a temporary split down the wind screen for the
aft suspension lines. ( how practical would that be ?) The whole scheme was
abandoned .

Regards Bob Harrison .

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Roland



Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2019 12:43 am    Post subject: Re: Parachute Reply with quote

Bob, I agree in what you've written, especially not to try to return to the airfield in a EFAT at low altitude (hopefully I'll remember it in such a situation). As for the BRS it's potentially a great safety feature IF it's incorporated in the aircraft design from scratch, like Cirrus did it. Many successful deployments in all kind of situations (even those beyond its envelope) prove that.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914


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