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jay-dub
Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK
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 Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 6:30 am Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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So on that basis, provided the MP limits are respected, is it feasible to increase METO and max continuous RPMs to the appropriate percentage of the “new” maximum (2250 to 2440)?
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: HS-6 engine needed |
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To a certain extent yes, and on one hand these are robust engines with conservative rpm limits. On the other hand these limits are established for a purpose, and clearly exceeding them is likely to affect engine life. But we are producing engines that are fundamentally the same as the original AI 14, but producing 445/450 hp, although with stronger connecting rods; larger bushings and so forth.
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
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jay-dub
Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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I suppose that’s the gamble. It’s presumably a reasonable assumption that if the RF was capable of 300hp, the 6A can also handle it - especially given the auto plug mod probably moves it close to this value anyway. As it would not be getting anywhere near M14 values, it certainly seems worth further investigation.
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Top Ace
Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 25
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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Gentlemen,,, it will become a huge problem as time goes on if there are no overhauls, or replacement engines for the HS 6A engine,, even motor replacement parts,, I experienced this a couple years back, I had one being overhauled in China, until they parked it half way completed, to busy for there own needs.
If the only options are M14,, there are many countries that this motor would not be approved,, even finding used engines sitting around becomes pretty expensive investing in labour etc, to get a few more hours in.
To which may be difficult to sell with engines,,,,
David
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Top Ace
Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 25
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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My last line should of read,, selling a plane with a time X engine, or broken, isn't going to have very good value,, $$$$
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 12:21 am Post subject: HS-6 engine needed |
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I wrote recently in these columns that it is my belief, and supported by
Doug Sapp, who is almost certainly the leading person dealing with these
aircraft and the Chinese, that the Chinese have categorically said that
there is no opportunity to have engines overhauled, and that there are no
either overhauled or new engines available for sale for the foreseeable
future. No one has contradicted that, so I assume that my belief is correct.
With Aerometal, my partner in Hungary, who overhauls many AI 14 and M 14
engines, we have been keen to get into the business of overhauling Chinese
engines. To that end we bought a couple of old engines to work out the
feasibility of doing this. With over 50 years of experience of the AI 14
engine (of course the basis for the HS-6 engine), we assumed that the
engines would be almost identical, and therefore we would have no problem to
overhaul the Chinese engines. In the event however the Chinese have made a
large number of changes, and we simply do not have the parts to undertake a
proper overhaul. I am as sure as I can be that this also applies to any
other organisation or business, including those in Eastern Europe, but I
would be delighted to be proved wrong!
But I don't understand the issue raised by "topacedave" about approvals,
particularly in terms of installing the M 14 P/PF engines into Nanchang
aircraft. Remember that these aircraft are totally uncertified and can only
be operated on some form of "experimental" or similarly restricted basis.
Fortunately, you Americans have the huge advantage of a very relaxed
environment in the "experimental" category that you have. Sadly we Europeans
are much more controlled, and in many European countries it is quite simply
not possible even to fly a standard Nanchang.
But given that the aircraft is not in any way certified, it isn't correct to
say that changing to an M 14 engine "would not be approved", since the
aircraft itself is not "approved" in many countries. We have a UK customer
with a Nanchang who applied to UK CAA to install an M 14 P engine. Of course
this is a widely done conversion, and relatively straightforward insofar as
the engine is the same size; weight; fits onto the same engine mounts et
cetera and the detailed changes are relatively small. But the UK CAA
insisted on an incredibly detailed technical analysis of engine mount loads;
vibration analysis; cooling examination before giving their permission, but
in the end this was done and the conversion was approved, and indeed the
aeroplane is flying successfully today.
Richard
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
--
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:37 am Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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I made some direct inquires with contacts in China this week who confirmed no zero time engines available at the moment (maybe the new cj6 production has taken them) but all spares are there for ongoing repair.
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:52 am Post subject: HS-6 engine needed |
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Sorry, Martin, but to avoid any misunderstanding, are you saying that there
are no spare parts available, simply because the Chinese are using them for
their own overhauls? Certainly that is my understanding but it would be good
to have confirmation.
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
--
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 5:49 am Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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Hi Richard
I was informed parts for the HS6 are readily available from China for ongoing repair/serviceability but no zero time core engines at this time.
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 170
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:12 am Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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New production lines circa 2016, wonder how many they’ve built since??
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Top Ace
Joined: 07 Jun 2016
Posts: 25
Location: Montreal, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:15 am Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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Additional comments for HS 6 Engines.
The USA FAA, like you have indicated fall under Experimental Category,, Here in Canada, they classify them under Special Airworthy Certificate,,
Not like the FAA, CJ-6 considered a certified aircraft, meaning in theory parts are required to be original,,
Now that being said, there are a few that have installed the M-14,, And one being installed as I know, and is being followed by a Transport Inspector,, which if all goes to plan, will be excepted as a legal install.
There is also a group of war Bird owners in discussion and negotiating with Transport Canada asking for some changes to the Regulations, to allow us to install, replace parts that may not be no longer available or being produced due to no longer in production, etc,
such an item would be the M-14 as an example if the HS 6A engine could not be overhauled, or produced any longer,,
As far as parts, Yes Doug Sapp can supply most parts,, any shortage of existing HS 6 engines, will become a serious set back to many Aircraft & owners,,
If some one other then China, could overhaul these engines,, its to have availability of all the required parts, knowledge, and overhaul manuals,, & tooling..
David
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jay-dub
Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:22 am Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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That doesn’t sound dissimilar to the UK CAA’s Permit to Fly. That said, we are about to move to the Light Aircraft Association for oversight (the equivalent of the EAA) so that will hopefully lead to greater flexibility. It will certainly lead to (slightly) lower costs.
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:09 am Post subject: HS-6 engine needed |
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They sold 6 to the Air Force in Sri Lanka last year for the modest price of US $5 million! But say they are unable to provide them with any overhaul engines for their existing aircraft!
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
--
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:20 am Post subject: HS-6 engine needed |
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I would add that they informed the Sri Lanka air force last year that they would no longer support the engines. In January we installed an M14P in one of their aircraft. They accepted it and will soon convert more to M14P.
George Coy
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GeorgeCoy
Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 308
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:47 am Post subject: HS-6 engine needed |
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Harv,
About 4 years ago the Chinese sent an HS6A engine to Motorstar in Romania to
see if they could take over the overhaul business. As Richard has pointed
out the HS6A is not the same as the AI14RA. At that time the Chinese said
they did not plan to supply the necessary parts for the engine overhauls.
George coy
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jay-dub
Joined: 31 May 2014
Posts: 99
Location: UK
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| Posted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:58 am Post subject: Re: HS-6 engine needed |
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| GeorgeCoy wrote: | I would add that they informed the Sri Lanka air force last year that they would no longer support the engines. In January we installed an M14P in one of their aircraft. They accepted it and will soon convert more to M14P.
George Coy
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I’m reliably informed they wish they’d done it years ago. My CJ’s (G-CJSA) new look...
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Last edited by jay-dub on Fri Jun 28, 2019 5:17 am; edited 2 times in total |
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richard.goode(at)russiana
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:37 am Post subject: HS-6 engine needed |
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To avoid any misunderstanding – this was six aircraft, of course complete with engines, but not cheap at $830,000 each!
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
--
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Harv
Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 170
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hess737(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:25 am Post subject: HS-6 engine needed |
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That’s a crazy price
Richard Hess
C 404-964-4885
[quote] On Jun 27, 2019, at 7:36 AM, Richard Goode <richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com> wrote:
To avoid any misunderstanding – this was six aircraft, of course complete with engines, but not cheap at $830,000 each!
RICHARD GOODE AEROBATICS
Rhodds Farm, Lyonshall, Hereford, HR5 3LW, UK
Tel: +44 (0)1544 340120 Fax: +44 (0)1544 340129
e-mail: richard.goode(at)russianaeros.com
www.russianaeros.com
WORLD LEADERS IN RUSSIAN SPORTING AIRCRAFT & ENGINES
In partnership with Aerometal Kft, Hungary.
--
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