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Wire Clamps

 
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art(at)zemon.name
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:48 am    Post subject: Wire Clamps Reply with quote
Folks,

In poking around the aeroelectric.com website, I ran across this photo:


In the top, right is a nylon bracket holding a zip-tie which holds the wires. I thought that pretty much the only acceptable clamp for wires in an airplane is Ye Ole MS21919 cushion clamp. Please educate me.
    -- Art Z.

--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

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ngeorge(at)cmg.aero
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject: Wire Clamps Reply with quote
Art –
Using zip-ties on wire bundles is not a problem.  The problem is using zip-ties to secure wire bundles (or anything else) to critical structure, like engine mount tubing.  Dirt and oil collect under the nylon and makes a pretty good saw.  It is nearly impossible to tighten a zip-tie to the point that relative movement is eliminated.  Over time, vibration of the parts working the grit can cut thru the structure.
 
Nylon saddles and stand-offs similar to those shown in the photo can be found in many certificated aircraft, but they are usually screwed, bolted, riveted or clipped to sheet metal components.
 
neal
 
From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Art Zemon
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 1:47 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Wire Clamps
 
Folks,
 

In poking around the aeroelectric.com website, I ran across this photo:

 

In the top, right is a nylon bracket holding a zip-tie which holds the wires. I thought that pretty much the only acceptable clamp for wires in an airplane is Ye Ole MS21919 cushion clamp. Please educate me.

 

    -- Art Z.

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
PostPosted: Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:48 am    Post subject: Wire Clamps Reply with quote
When I want to connect something and I am worried about wear or fit, I use F-4 Tape.  For example, a couple of wraps around the motor mount and you can just zip tie away.  The zip tie will embed in the rubber and never move again.  Easily removed if need be since there is no adhesive. There are a lot of uses for this stuff…..

If you have never used a fusion tape before…..caution, you will quickly become addicted to its use.  It is fun to play with also.

Not cheap………but a little goes a long way.

Another use for me is for strain relief for connectors.  I wrap it around the wires and then clamp the back shell around the bundle.  Great for when you have only couple of wires going into a DB-25 connector.

http://www.f4tape.com/?gclid=CIrJ6ffp384CFQUJaQodXN0PTA

You can purchase it on Amazon.

Rene'
801-721-6080


From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Neal George
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 1:10 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: Wire Clamps

Art –
Using zip-ties on wire bundles is not a problem.  The problem is using zip-ties to secure wire bundles (or anything else) to critical structure, like engine mount tubing.  Dirt and oil collect under the nylon and makes a pretty good saw.  It is nearly impossible to tighten a zip-tie to the point that relative movement is eliminated.  Over time, vibration of the parts working the grit can cut thru the structure.

Nylon saddles and stand-offs similar to those shown in the photo can be found in many certificated aircraft, but they are usually screwed, bolted, riveted or clipped to sheet metal components.

neal

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Art Zemon
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2016 1:47 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Wire Clamps

Folks,


In poking around the aeroelectric.com website, I ran across this photo:



In the top, right is a nylon bracket holding a zip-tie which holds the wires. I thought that pretty much the only acceptable clamp for wires in an airplane is Ye Ole MS21919 cushion clamp. Please educate me.



-- Art Z.

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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art(at)zemon.name
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 4:50 pm    Post subject: Wire Clamps Reply with quote
Rene',

Do you know how F4 tape compares to Harbor Freight silicon tape (at) $3.99 for 10 feet? Or various other brands such as Super Glue, Nashua,and Loctite, all available for well under $10?
    -- Art Z.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Rene <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> wrote:
Quote:

When I want to connect something and I am worried about wear or fit, I use F-4 Tape.  For example, a couple of wraps around the motor mount and you can just zip tie away.  The zip tie will embed in the rubber and never move again.  Easily removed if need be since there is no adhesive. There are a lot of uses for this stuff…..
 
If you have never used a fusion tape before…..caution, you will quickly become addicted to its use.  It is fun to play with also.
 
Not cheap………but a little goes a long way.
 
Another use for me is for strain relief for connectors.  I wrap it around the wires and then clamp the back shell around the bundle.  Great for when you have only couple of wires going into a DB-25 connector.
 
http://www.f4tape.com/?gclid=CIrJ6ffp384CFQUJaQodXN0PTA


--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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rene(at)felker.com
Guest
PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject: Wire Clamps Reply with quote
Not really.  I bought some black tape from ?????? and it works fine also.  The F4 does seem to fuse better and I think it has more heat resistence.

But have never compared.

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Art Zemon
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2016 6:40 PM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Wire Clamps

Rene',


Do you know how F4 tape compares to Harbor Freight silicon tape (at) $3.99 for 10 feet? Or various other brands such as Super Glue, Nashua,and Loctite, all available for well under $10?



-- Art Z.

On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Rene <rene(at)felker.com (rene(at)felker.com)> wrote:
When I want to connect something and I am worried about wear or fit, I use F-4 Tape. For example, a couple of wraps around the motor mount and you can just zip tie away. The zip tie will embed in the rubber and never move again. Easily removed if need be since there is no adhesive. There are a lot of uses for this stuff…..

If you have never used a fusion tape before…..caution, you will quickly become addicted to its use. It is fun to play with also.

Not cheap………but a little goes a long way.

Another use for me is for strain relief for connectors. I wrap it around the wires and then clamp the back shell around the bundle. Great for when you have only couple of wires going into a DB-25 connector.

http://www.f4tape.com/?gclid=CIrJ6ffp384CFQUJaQodXN0PTA




--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/

"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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Back to top
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 5:56 am    Post subject: Wire Clamps Reply with quote
At 07:44 PM 8/29/2016, you wrote:
Quote:
That's a very clever idea. Thank you, Kent. I'll keep that one in mind. Given the way that the interior of the BD-4C is built, I am more likely to rivet a little piece of scrap to a an aluminum angle that is part of the frame than to use epoxy. But you have given me food for thought.

Adhesives in structural or semi-structural
applications are worthy of thought . . . and
testing.

Adhesive science is as much art as it is
physics. You can delve into the subject
on the 'net where you will discover discussions
on levels of energy inherent in the surfaces
of the various materials. The ability of an
adhesive to grip any given surface is a
function of surface textures and energy
levels diluted with the effects of shock,
moisture, contamination, temperature, etc. etc.

I would not discourage anyone from trying
any combination of glued joints using
materials from their past experiences
but if joint failure in your airplane
generates an uncomfortable level of
risk . . . well . . . think it through
and TEST.

At Beech, we had folks in the materials
lab who were dedicated to the study and
application of the various uckum-yuckies
that were offered up as the next great
glue. They could tell you some pretty
amazing stories . . . and as long as the
studies were confined to the lab, some were
funny too.

A few years ago I produce this article
for the 'Connection . . .


http://tinyurl.com/j2gxbqy

. . . and later, refined it for Kit Planes

http://tinyurl.com/hxczu3r

The article speaks to the use of glued-on
mountings for low-risk structural applications.
Securing wire bundles and small electro-whizzies
to the airplane are generally low risk
situations.

About the time I was selling the bond studs,
I researched a number of adhesives for their
suitability to task. No doubt there are many
but the material E6000 and "ShoGoo" proved
to be useful. The stuff needs 24 hour cure
but it's tenacious, robust, inexpensive
and available about everywhere.




Bob . . .

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art(at)zemon.name
Guest
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:06 pm    Post subject: Wire Clamps Reply with quote
More good ideas. Thank you, Bob.

Everybody: This is hugely helpful. I won't use all of these ideas but just seeing the photos is giving me ideas that I can build on. Some of the places that I want to secure wires would have been a PITA with cushion clamps.
    -- Art Z.


On Tue, Aug 30, 2016 at 8:54 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
Quote:
At 07:44 PM 8/29/2016, you wrote:
Quote:
That's a very clever idea. Thank you, Kent. I'll keep that one in mind. Given the way that the interior of the BD-4C is built, I am more likely to rivet a little piece of scrap to a an aluminum angle that is part of the frame than to use epoxy. But you have given me food for thought.

 Adhesives in structural or semi-structural
 applications are worthy of thought . . . and
 testing.

 Adhesive science is as much art as it is
 physics. You can delve into the subject
 on the 'net where you will discover discussions
 on levels of energy inherent in the surfaces
 of the various materials. The ability of an
 adhesive to grip any given surface is a
 function of surface textures and energy
 levels diluted with the effects of shock,
 moisture, contamination, temperature, etc. etc.

 I would not discourage anyone from trying
 any combination of glued joints using
 materials from their past experiences
 but if joint failure in your airplane
 generates an uncomfortable level of
 risk . . . well . . . think it through
 and TEST.

 At Beech, we had folks in the materials
 lab who were dedicated to the study and
 application of the various uckum-yuckies
 that were offered up as the next great
 glue. They could tell you some pretty
 amazing stories . . . and as long as the
 studies were confined to the lab, some were
 funny too.

 A few years ago I produce this article
 for the 'Connection . . .


http://tinyurl.com/j2gxbqy

 . . . and later, refined it for Kit Planes

http://tinyurl.com/hxczu3r

 The article speaks to the use of glued-on
 mountings for low-risk structural applications.
 Securing wire bundles and small electro-whizzies
 to the airplane are generally low risk
 situations.

 About the time I was selling the bond studs,
 I researched a number of adhesives for their
 suitability to task. No doubt there are many
 but the material E6000 and "ShoGoo" proved
 to be useful. The stuff needs 24 hour cure
 but it's tenacious, robust, inexpensive
 and available about everywhere.




  Bob . . .


--
http://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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